Was Palpatine sad when Darth Maul was killed by Obi-Wan Kenobi on Naboo?

Because Darth Maul was Palpatines apprentice, as Darth Sidious, Palpatine raised him from childhood and was like a father to Darth Maul so surely Palpatine cared about Darth Maul on a personal level and maybe loved him as a son/student, and Palpatine taught Maul everything he knew about lightsaber dueling and swordfighting and the jedi arts and sith arts very well, Palpatine and Darth Maul probably even lived together in Palpatines apartment on Coruscant with Maul leaving through the back door to avoid unwanted attention.

And in the Novelization of TPM Darth Sidious laments that years were spent on the training of Darth Maul as a Sith Lord and that now he was dead and that he would simply have to find another apprentice as a replacement for Darth Maul, so i can imagine that Palpatine would have a little sad when Darth Maul died, clearly he did not want Maul to get killed and was now without him, and raising your apprentice from childhood would have created a bond of sorts between Master and the Apprentice as well, i can imagine a scene on Coruscant where Palpatine is meditating and feels a disturbance in the Dark Side of the Force that lets him know that Darth Maul has just died at the hands of one of the Jedi Knights that he sent Maul to kill.

This is probably the reason why Palpatine doesnt talk to Obi-Wan Kenobi for very long and walks past him quickly in TPM after he has returned to Naboo, and the reason why in ROTS that Obi-Wan Kenobi is the first Jedi Master to be targetted for death by Palpatine when Order 66 is issued as he gives Commander Cody the order to kill Obi-Wan first before anyone else, also in the novelization of ROTS Palpatine orders Count Dooku to kill Kenobi just to bring Anakin Skywalker over to the dark side with no probelms, because the death of Kenobi would push Anakin over the edge, and of course give Palpatine his revenge, also Palpatine yells "Get!" when Obi-Wan attacks Count Dooku from behind while he is still dueling with Anakin, clearly a warning that Obi-Wan was coming to attack Dooku so that Dooku would not be killed from behind.

He is also quick to demand that Anakin leave Obi-Wan behind because "Leave him or we'll never make it!." i just loved how Anakin got pissed off and replies "His fate will be the same as ours." and just takes him anyway, Palpatine thinks nothing of Obi-Wan risking his life to rescue him from Count Dooku and bring him back, you'd think that he might at least respect Obi-Wan on a personal level for doing dangerous things even if he doesnt like him at all.

So IMHO Palpatine blames Obi-Wan for the death of Darth Maul, he wants revenge for Mauls death and wants to avenge his son/apprentice because he probably really loved Darth Maul and was his friend as well, Palpatine seems to have a heart after all, this also shown at the end of ROTS when he tenderly touches Darth Vader on the forehead after he finds his battered and ruined body next to the Lava river.

 

Palpataine didn't care at all, I'm guessing. He's Darth Maul's master, not father. In the end, he knew Maul would have to die because he was going to turn Anakin since the moment he met him. Although, he probably felt a little angry because he wanted the Jedi dead and he didn't exactly have a new apprentice lined up once the blade went through Maul's stomach, in the end Maul served his purpose. He was pretty much Sidious's b****.

 

Well Palpatine was still a Human Being, even a Sith Lord would develop a friendship with someone if they had known them and worked with them for years, so its not so out there to think that maybe Palpatine was sad when Maul died and missed Maul being around, like they had talked and debated on things together and respected each other a little bit, in the EU this is how Count Dooku and Palpatine first joined forces, Palpatine approached Dooku and they talked about how they could fix the Republic and the Galaxy, obviously they might have found some common ground and liked each other a little bit, each repecting the others ideals and beliefs and vision of how to do things that would improve the galaxy as a whole.

 

IIRC, after Palpatine returned from Naboo; post TPM...
Sidious, fully robed and standing where he could look at the skyline, seethed over the loss of Maul. Or something like that.

 

I think his only feeling was that of disappointment and annoyance. Instead of having a powerful weapon at his disposal he was left without an apprentice and with a plan that was already set in motion.

 

I think his annoyance was also from how much time he spent turning Maul into a weapon of destruction and in the end he was beaten by a Padawan learner. Just the first thorn put in hi side from Obi Wan.

 

I know nothing of Maul save for what was seen in the films. But, the impression I get is that he was simply an obedient "weapon." Nothing I hear about him from others' conversations seems to indicate to me that he had any ambition like Dooku or Vader had. That in itself doesn't suggest to me that he was ever meant to be Sidious' apprentice for the long term.

However, I don't really understand what Palpatine's plan was. Did he send Maul off to die intentionally? Maul said that it was time for the Sith to reveal themselves to the Jedi, but had Maul successfully killed Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, then how would the Jedi learn of the Sith as Naboo would have been left under Trade Federation control, the Jedi corpses would not have been retrieved, and the only two witnesses with knowledge of the Sith would have been killed.

Was Maul's death a method by which Palpatine could reveal that the Sith had returned, or was it an accident that Palpatine had to spend the next ten years working around?

 

Palpatine says "You have been well trained my young apprentice, they will be no match for you." so that indicates that he expected Maul to destroy both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan easily, the fact that he didnt might have pissed off Palpatine a lot, and Palpatine probably cried after he felt Mauls death too.

 

True, he did say that. But, I don't know if he was simply building up Maul's confidence so that he would be overconfident and reckless (leading to his downfall).

 

Why would Palpatine set his own beloved apprentice up for his death with no suitable replacement in line for Darth Maul at all? my take is that Maul would have killed them both and stuck with the Trade Federation and kept helping them while starting to set up the Separitist Movement from TPM onwards, this way the Sith's revenge would start right away and be in full force very shortly.

Palpatine IMHO got lucky that Dooku left the Jedi Order because he was upset by Qui-Gon Jinns death, Dooku was used to replace Darth Maul and start the Separitist Movement which caused the Clone Wars to break out and bring about the Empire, but Darth Maul was probably intended to do the job until he he was killed, then Palpatine had to find a replacement for Maul and train them, that would make the movement be held off for years, Palpatine was very lucky that Dooku was able to take Mauls place so quickly, without an apprentice the Separitist Movement had no person to lead the opposing side and help Palpatine start the Clone Wars that he could trust, anyone else might betray Palpatine but not his apprentice, so Mauls death was a weak point.

Dooku had to replace Maul as the leader of the Separitists, im sure Palpatine wouldnt send his apprentice and partner in that grand scheme to die like an idiot, and Vergere in the EU had already approached and tried to kill Palpatine and left Palpatine so Vergere was not able to replace Maul either.

 

Anakin had been living under Palpatine's counsel for the better part of 22 years. Though he didn't become Palpatine's apprentice until the very end of that period. The Separatist movement required a lot of funding by the various commercial powers (Trade Federation, Commerce Guild, etc.) who were won over by the charasmatic Dooku. Without Dooku, I feel there wouldn't have been a Separatist movement, thus there wouldn't have been a second powerful entity that Palpatine could play off against the Republic in Order to grant himself emergency powers. When Dooku died, Palpatine already had Anakin lined up as a replacement. Palpatine may have similarly have kept Dooku in his circle of friends prior to TPM. Which would mean he didn't necessarily have to start from scratch when Maul died.

If Maul successfully killed Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, then the Queen gets abducted and forced to sign the treaty which gives legitimacy to the Trade Federation occupation. Thus, the Trade Federation might not have even wanted to secede if they had been successful on Naboo.

What then? With Maul, how would Palpatine construct an army? What crisis would give him justification for using it (there wouldn't be a Separatist movement)? On what grounds would he found an Empire?

 

Probably more disappointed, and frustrated that the Jedi had proved better than he and Maul had assumed. Sidious had most likely put a lot of time and effort into training Darth Maul, and starting from scratch with a Force-sensitive child would be at least 10 more years. Naturally, he immediately begins to look to the Jedi Order for new recruits. He has his eye on Anakin before Maul's corpse even gets cold.

 

Yeah, that was in the novel. Although IIRC, it was while he was still on Naboo.

And he swore that one day, there would be a reckoning.

Taken to the extreme, that could mean Palpatine never planned to be an Emperor, order the extermination of the Jedi, or overthrow the Republic until Darth Maul died.

 

But why would he set himself up to be elected as the new Supreme Chancellor before Mauls death then? He planned before that.

 

I see my sarcasm is lost on you.

 

The man always has a plan. He probably planned for all possibilities, or whipped up something on the fly. With the Seperatists, he probably would have tried to goad them into a coup, and they would look like they were trying to destabilze the Republic, because a weakened Republic would be more receptive to their demands.

 

Sarcasm IMHO is something that people resort to using because they dont know how to be serious, im always very serious all the time, i never play mind games or use sarcasm at all, i like to get to the heart of the probelm with no B* at all most people dont like that and prefer to play silly mind games and use senseless humor where none is needed, i wont play that game.

 

See, that comes off as sarcasm!

 

Joe, let's not worry about discussing people and how they are. It's breaking the fans/films rule.

 

Palpatine was not sad when Maul died. Most likely he was pissed of that Maul had gotten himself killed and his in motion plans were now in flux. Recall, in RotS, however, Sidious contacted Commander Cody first to enact Order 66, suggesting that Obiwan's death was at the top of Sidious's list for killing Maul and being a constant thorn in his side.

In TPM, there is nothing really like the hand on Vader's head at the end of RotS that could even be interpted as Sidious feeling something for Maul.

You also might want to check out a thread I authored some time ago asking if Sidious cared for Anakin/Vader.

 

That was not my intention, i was merely explaining what i dont do while talking in conversations with people, it comes across as being indifferent, but indifference is a usefull tool IMHO, its my favorite emotion.

 

I was thinking that Sidious might have felt bad, but what he feels is twisted by the Dark Side. I don't know if he ever loved Maul, but he might have felt something in his own twisted way. He seemed to have felt something for Anakin on Mustafar, even a little bit, so it is possible that he felt something for Maul who he had for far longer.

As conjecture, why would Maul feel something for his Master if his Master felt nothing for him? Why the extreme loyalty? It is hard to stay loyal to someone who you feel cares nothing for you, and Maul showed that he was extremely loyal. So Palpatine might have showed something towards Maul.
It could be why Palpatine is mad (again conjecture) at Obi-Wan, and seems to try to have him always killed first. Maul was probably the closest thing Palpatine had to a son, so I can imagine he was a little tiffed when Maul died.

 

Obi-Wan was the friend that anchored Anakin to the Jedi Council. Even as Palpatine fed Anakin's arrogance in order to create mistrust between Anakin and the rest of the Jedi, Obi-Wan was always there on his side. I don't think Palpatine's desire to kill Obi-Wan was out of revenge for Maul. It strikes me simply as a strategic move.

With Obi-Wan out of the way, Anakin would have nobody else he could turn to for guidance, or at least nobody he felt he could trust, except Palpatine.


As for Maul's loyalty, well he wasn't a very fleshed out character in the films, so we don't exactly know what the extent of his loyalty is. He may or may not have had ambition of his own. Or perhaps he simply feared Palpatine. Vader tells Luke that he "must obey his master" thinking that there was no hope in successfully opposing Palpatine's power, at least without Luke to back him up. Maul probably had little choice but to be loyal, because unless he could find a powerful apprentice of his own, then there was no hope of opposing Palpatine's will.

Or perhaps the intense emotional and physical pain that Maul had endured over his life at Palpatine's hands lead to a very intense form of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

Can a Sith feel sad? I don't know. He must have felt something for poor old Maul. Maybe disappointment or even regret? But I wouldn't say a sith can feel sadness or am I wrong?

 

In a way, I think Palpatine was saddened by Maul's death. Maul was the perfect Sith Apprentice: raised from birth, showing no emotions, does everything he is told...