Being in the suit limited Vader's Force potential. However, he's already far more powerful than anyone else in the GFFA except for Palpatine and Luke, so it doesn't really matter for the most part. With that being the case, do you think Vader being in the suit made him more effective because: 1) No one would recognize him as Anakin Skywalker and 2) The suit is more intimidating.
Vader would have twice as powerful as Palpy without his injuries and in that alt-timeline likely would have killed Palpatine in the period between the PT and the OT.
The suit restricted his movement but it also made his fighting style more savage as a result. The irritation of wearing it increased his rage levels and made him feel detached. He looked 100% more intimidating in the suit, together with the voice as well.
Great thread question. The extensive injuries that resulted in him being essentially confined to his suit definitely meant he was weaker physically and from what I've read in the Force as well compared to how he would've been if he'd never sustained those injuries, but he was a fierce enough warrior and strong enough in the Force that a weaker version of himself is still going to be more powerful than just about anyone else in the universe. I do think that a fair argument could be made that he was psychologically more imposing to people in his black suit than he would've been without it, and that wearing his mask gave him an air of impenetrable mystery, making it impossible for others to recognize that he was Anakin Skywalker. In many ways, Vader truly becomes Vader when the suit and mask are put on him at the end of ROTS. Before that, there are flickers of Anakin Skywalker present in how he speaks and acts toward Padme and Obi-Wan, though by that time he is very much an Anakin Skywalker who has fallen to the Dark Side, and that is also clear in his treatment of Padme and Obi-Wan on Mustafar. So I think the suit and mask become very important, defining features that distinguish Vader from Anakin Skywalker, disconnecting him from his own past.
100% cotton garments are apparently not well known about in the GFFA. It's all coarse wool and leather.
As a fighter with a light saber no. But he probably became much more powerful with Force throwing, choking and the like. I've always thought he was as powerful as Palpatine(or at least close), but Palpatine kept him down like a whipped dog.
I think that is changed after the new canon. Pablo Hidalgo : ''This is Vader and his prime. You've got to remember how far we've come from the character when he was Anakin.'' ---Source: Rebels Recon #2.01: Inside "The Siege of Lothal" (2015) ''Many years later, Obi-Wan and Darth Vader duel a second time. The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful.'' ---Source: Star Wars Beware the Sith (2012) ''He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it broken, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight. (...) When man and machine were one, he no longer felt the absence of his legs or arms, the pain of his flesh, but the hate remained, and the rage still burned. Those, he never relinquished, and he never felt more connected to the Force than when his fury burned. (...) The armor separated him from the galaxy, from everyone, made him singular, freed him from the needs of the flesh, the concerns of the body that once had plagued him, and allowed him to focus solely on his relationship to the Force.'' --- Source: Star Wars Lords of the Sith (2015)
To me, the movies will always be the primary source material in Star Wars, and anything that doesn't jive with what I see happening onscreen isn't going to take priority over what I see happening in the movies themselves. The Obi-Wan and Anakin I see dueling at the end of ROTS seem to me to be two warriors in their peak physical form, two fighters in their powerful prime. Anakin's flaw in his duel with Obi-Wan isn't any physical weakness: it's his impulsiveness and arrogance that causes him to make a strategic error against a foe who is willing and able to take advantage of it. Vader is much more controlled, and much less impulsive, as we see in his duel on the Death Star with Obi-Wan. The ANH Vader is slower and much less physically capable--worn down by his injuries and his big old breathing suit--much like the Obi-Wan we see in ANH is a shadow of his ROTS self worn down by time, grief, and guilt. So, to me, the ANH Vader is less powerful than ROTS Anakin, but he is more experienced and that's why he can defeat a similarly diminished Obi-Wan (and even then all his experience leaves him baffled when Obi-Wan's body disappeared). Also, I tend to interpret that passage from Lord of the Sith as what Vader wants to believe rather than what is objectively true same way I can look in the mirror after gaining a few pounds over the Christmas season and try to tell myself that I've never looked better when really I looked much better when I was working out everyday and not eating a ton of sweets at holiday parties. In that way, we could say what Vader is thinking is true from a "certain point of view."
The suit allowed DARTH VADER to truly become another person rather than just a title, given Anakin’s likeness and voice was buried under the suit.
It’s still something of a disappointment that we don’t see much of Vader at the height of his powerful villainy in the original trilogy (he was at a draw with Obi-Wan for most of the fight, and he wasn’t trying to kill Luke). He’s either holding back or choking someone unarmed in each scene. Rogue One improved this, but I still wish we could see Vader’s power in live action compared to other Force-users. And I agree that Vader’s humanity was, for all intents and purposes, gone once he found out that Padme died. I interpret his final “NOOOOO!” as selfish rather than remorseful. To me, Vader seems to feel cheated by Padme’s loss, not so much that he “killed” her. His behavior before the suit and everything he does until The Empire Strikes Back supports that for me.
I love the ESB Vader and the RO Vader. Also the first level of the Force Unleashed if you've played that. Best villain ever.
I agree with @christophero30, and one of my criticisms of RoTJ is that Vader has become meek in comparison to the Emperor, appearing more subservient than he was hinted to be previously. If he had an anti-Palpatine agenda pre-redemption, I wouldn’t have known it solely from that film. The closest Vader comes in ROTJ to his TESB self is during the final duel with Luke, shortly before his defeat. I wish we’d seen that Vader from the start until his redemption. For that matter, I wish Vader had interacted with characters other than his fellow Imperials, or at least harm another character to remind us that he is evil in his own right despite the Emperor’s presence. That, in my opinion, makes it more of a challenge to redeem him, and gives more shock value when he is redeemed.
This bothered me too when I saw ROTJ in the theater. Vader seemed so much weaker, like he had aged 20 years. It was a bit inconsistent with what we saw in ESB.
I know what you mean, and R1 remedied this. The closest in the original trilogy would be TESB against Luke during the Bespin duel. However I also like the way Vader in the original trilogy has reached a point where he’s above it all. His reputation as a Force choking killer is enough to command respect, and that’s all he needs 99% of the time. He saw Padme as property towards the end, and he lost his property forever when she died. It’s more about his mental state being whittled away. He wants to overthrow Palpatine but he doesn’t have the guts to do it. He’s been told his son will either become a Sith or he will have to be killed.
@themoth I see your point and largely agree with you, but I wonder what caused the whittling of his mental state. Was it Luke’s initial rejection, or maybe the years of numbness inside contributed?
Vader in ANH, because of the amount of time passed, experienced and strength gained, defeats pre-suit Vader of ROTS.
