What criteria did Obi-Wan meet to become a Jedi Master and to sit on the Council?

Maybe this is one of those questions that is answered in the book, which I have not fully read, but nevertheless I was wondering what kinds of things and criteria did Obi-Wan accomplish in order to become a Jedi Master and to receive a seat on the Council?

I am not asking this because I do not believe he deserved it. I love the fact that the Prequels showed that there was a council that existed in the Jedi order, and to learn that Obi-Wan actually became a Jedi Master and sat on the Council before the demise of the Jedi order

So again, what did Obi-Wan do to achieve the status of Master and sit on the Council? I think this is something to consider when compared to Anakin not being made a Master, but was able to receive a seat on the Council due to Palpatine's request. Palpatine as the Supreme Chancellor could influence things to get Anakin a seat on the Council, but not for him to become a Master.

Anyway, the main question is what things did Obi-Wan do to become a Jedi Master amd to receive a seat on the Council.


Darth Sin!

 

It's not talked about in "Jedi Trial", "Dark Rendezvous", "Labryinth Of Evil" and the ROTS novelization. But the criteria for any Jedi to be a Knight has to do with the following. First, how far they have come from being a freshly minted Knight. That means if you've continued to grow and expand from where you were when you passed the trials. Obi-wan does this. He continues to learn about the Living Force, embracing it enough to become a much more well rounded Jedi. Not just in battle, but in negotiations. Thus he is the Great Negotiator. He continues to improve himself as a Jedi.

Second, he has had Anakin become a Knight which would make him a Master regardless of being on the Council. In the view of the Jedi, Anakin had proven his worth as a Knight. Especially when he was able to lead a group of Padawans who had lost their Masters to safety, as well as his rescue mission at Praesitlyn.

Third, to be on the Council there needs for there to be an opening. During the Battle of Boz Pity, I believe it was, Oppo Rancisis was killed. So there was an opening. Obi-wan's record as a Padawan, a Knight and as a freshly minted Master was exemplary (sp) in the eyes of the Council. His victories like on Muunlist, where he fought and his successful negotiations on Ord Cestus were very Jedi like. Again, he comes off as well rounded.

Lastly, it has to do with his ability to remain in control. To remain humble. To be able to give orders and accept them. To offer insight and experience which comes from his own point of view. He has no emotional issues. He has no pride. Obi-wan is a team player which many Jedi can attest to.

This is what he did and what many Jedi did.

 

Yep..

 

Pretty much like Sinister said.

The short version would be to have complete Mastery over one's self as well as the Force.

 

I wish how one becomes a Jedi Master would have been touched on to some degree in the films. I especially think learning how a Jedi, or particularly Obi-Wan becomes a Jedi Master, and to sit on the Council would have been great information in terms of Anakin's displeasure that he was not made a master though he was allowed to sit on the Council.

It would have been really interesting if possible to have been able to see a scene wherein Obi-Wan was granted the status of a Master and a seat on the Council and to hear those things from the Council that proved why Obi-Wan should have received such, with Anakin present to hear those things.

I think this would have been really interesting to see when compared to Anakin only receiving a seat on the Council, but not the title of Master, and in light of his declaration to Padme that he was not the Jedi he should be, and that he wanted more.

Lastly, by the way as far as the movie was concerned we did not hear as to why Anakin did not receive the status of Master. We know that a Jedi can become a Master without being granted a seat on the Council, as in the case of Qui-Gon. We heard in TPM from Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon defied the code, so he did not get a seat. But we did not hear why Anakin did not receive the status of a Master. Because when ROTS opens, Anakin has achieved the status of a Jedi Knight and we do not hear anything, particularly from Obi-Wan as to why he cannot be made a Master. When Anakin was upset about not becoming a Master, Obi-Wan never said why he was not granted the status. And Obi-Wan praised Anakin as a Jedi before he left to go to Utapau.
If Anakin had not achieved the criteria to become a Master, why didn't Obi-Wan tell him when he was upset about it?

I imagine the book covers why Anakin was unable to achieve the level of Master, but from the film this was not clear. This is not a criticism, because we as fans know why he did not get the status, but from the film it actually looked promising for Anakin to receive the level of Master, until Palpatine requested Anakin be granted a seat on the Council. Again, in listening to Obi-Wan, he did not say anything about Anakin as to why he should not be granted the title of Master.

Darth Sin!

 

Palpatine pulled a few strings of truth when he said that the council would have a difficult time getting Anakin to fall in line. If you go by the Rots novel, it would have saved the Jedi a ton of grief if they granted Anakin mastership, so he could access restricted material in the archive.

Anakin needed a few more years to mature to be a Master. He had the power and the skill, but lacked the experience, wisdom, and in some cases, the mental stability to be a master by Old Jedi standards. He would have felt right at home with the Jedi of the NJO.

 

I was hoping to get a glimpse of 'the trials' a Padawan faced in order to become a Jedi knight. It was bypassed in TPM due to Obi-Wan's real life heroics and insane self-control. Do the Padawan's go through some sort of induction ceremony into knighthood? That would have been interesting to witness.

So this train of thought continues to the seating process on the council. There is much power in the symbolism and ritual of ceremony. It psychologically binds the apprentice to the organization (s)he is pledging themselves to serve. We didn't see anything other than put downs and trash talking when Anakin takes his Palpatine appointed position on the council -- I agree it would've been nice to see Obi-Wan get his Master Jedi blazer, diamond studded lapel pin, magic kazoo or will of the force decoder ring.

 

rumsmuggler, I hear what you are saying, but Obi-Wan and the Council did not communicate to Anakin why he could not be granted the level of Master. Mace simply tells him he could sit on the Council, but not receive the level of Master. But neither Mace, Yoda or Obi-Wan says to him why he did not make Master.

Obi-Wan had received the level of master no doubt between AOTC and ROTS, so he knows firsthand what is required, but he neglects to share with Anakin why he did not attain the level of Master, and what things he must do. Obi-Wan only told him to be satified with sitting on the Council at such a young age.

Lastly, I know the book goes into why Anakin wants to achieve the level of Master to be able to have access to the Jedi Archives; however there is nothing at all in the film from Anakin that remotely suggests this. Oh how I wish there had at least been a hint of this in the film.

Darth Sin!

 

I think the council was using Anakin as bait and their" not to be on record" plan failed miserably. It's very true that the council never gave Anakin a straight answer, if they did, things might have turned out differently.

It would have been sweet if Anakin had said **** off to the council, and took off to points unknown.

 

He grew a mullet.

 

what kinds of things and criteria did Obi-Wan accomplish in order to become a Jedi Master and to receive a seat on the Council?

Basically it seems from the movies, it was how well someone buttered up and kissed Yoda's tush. Qui-Gon, no tush kissing, no council seat. Obi-Wan, tush kissing, council seat.

 

I'd have to say there were a few things that would make the council say "Hey, Obi-wan would make a good member!"

1. By that point he had encountered two Sith Lords, presumeably one more than some Jedi and two more than most.

2. The RoTS Novel discussion between Obi-Wan and Mace discussing why Obi-Wan should face Greivious......."Who is better, the inventor of a new form or a Master of an old one? Yoda uses Ataro because of his limited reach, I invented Vaapad because of the darkness inside me. We use them to cover our weaknesses. Do you know what you weakness is Master Kenobi?" "No" "That's right, you don't have one." High praise from an esteemed member of the council indeed.

3. Also from the RoTS Novel regarding the capture of Greivous - "We should send our most cunning and able Master." "Who would that be?" (Council grins because Obi-Wan has no clue they are talking about him.) Apparently Mace wasn't the only Master that thought highly of Obi-Wan.

4. We never see Obi-Wan doing anything wrong. He is TRULY good, caring, and selfless.....he doesn't seem to have to try at it. I think that almost every Jedi has a breaking point that would force them over to the dark side....fighting your best friend, Padawan, and brother that has betrayed you would do it for most Jedi. I even felt that Yoda had an angry look to him when facing Sidious and Dooku.

5. Having been Qui-Gon Jinn's Padawan, he had learned of the living force as well as the traditional force teachings. By RoTS he had combined aspects of the two, trusting in the moment as well as thinking of the future. I think that made him as close to the perfect Jedi as you can get.

carnage

 

Hmm, did Qui-Gon ever become a Jedi Master?

 

He was a Jedi Master well before he took Obi Wan as his padawan.

 

As far as the films go....the suggestion in TPM of Obi-Wan to Qui-Gon "Do not disobey the Council again Master, not again. If you would listen to them you would already be on the Council." is kind of a sign. It wasn't "If you would listen to them you may be given the trial to become a Master."

From the RoTS Novel.....

Slowly Yoda Nodded "A very great Jedi Master you have become Qui-Gon Jinn. A very great Jedi Master you always were, but too blind was I to see it."

So if you want to go by the EU, he definately was. If you go by the movies....it's somewhat insinuated.

Carnage

 

He was automatically a Master after he trained his first Padawan into Jedi Knighthood. His first Padawan was not Obi-Wan.

 

As far as the films go....the suggestion in TPM of Obi-Wan to Qui-Gon "Do not disobey the Council again Master, not again. If you would listen to them you would already be on the Council." is kind of a sign. It wasn't "If you would listen to them you may be given the trial to become a Master."

Just to be exact, it was "if you would just follow the code, you would be on the Council".

But agreed with you I have

 

The Visual Dictionary also describes Qui-Gon as a master. It says that Obi-Wan is his 3rd Padawan, and that he had trained his first to knighthood, but lost his second. Just wanted to add that. Good post above, too, Carnage. Those 5 points are all so true, and in order of importance as well. Defeating a Sith almost elevates you straight from Padawan to Master in my books.

 

i am happier without an answer to the question that is the subject of this thread.

I am not comfortable with the trials never have been actualy it feels contrived to me in order to sell video games.

The criteria should have to do with growth and spiritual growth as judged by peers and senior members not a check list of accomplishment or achieving some made up test.

I think it would only serve to undermine further the once mystical jedi order into a little bit more and would rank right next to midiclorians in stupidity.

 

Good points. The midicholorians thing is ridiculous. Why wouldn't you just midichlorian test the whole order and rank them accordingly?

 

Qui-gon was already a Master in TPM. The reason for his not being on the Council had to do with his recklessness and maverick behavior. Something that the Council did not approve of and thus kept him off the Council. Anakin is still reckless as we see in ROTS, in various places. It also has to do with his age, when Obi-wan points out that as young as he is, he is the first to sit on the Council. Though this sorta contradicts how old Depa Bilaba was when she sat on the Council, but due to Lucas introducing Anakin as young as he is and having Depa being Mace's Padawan, that's where the age conflict arises in the eu.

Anakin has not the experience of a Master. He's been a Knight for six months, roughly. They deny him not because Palpatine wanted it. But because he is not mature enough to go to the next level. Obi-wan shows a progressional maturity in each film, bringing him closer to his OT incarnation. Anakin's not as mature, both in personality or Force awareness that Obi-wan is. The Council is impressed with his ability to reach Knighthood. But not so much with becoming a Master, much less a Council member.

Because they test potential, not maturity. Yoda was very mature, hence he was the Grand Master. Obi-wan was not as powerful as Anakin in potential, but he was much more balanced Jedi than he is.

 

Isn't this EU forum related?


-JR

 

Spiritual growth?? In the PT? Keep dreaming...

 

>>>> Spiritual growth?? In the PT? Keep dreaming...

Well, of course, GDS.

One of the big points of the PT is to show that the Jedi are failing in this area HUGELY. Anakin is the seed for their growth and change, but they don't realise this until the OT....


-JR

 

JR: Well said!

I believe that Windu could have been less confrontational in his approach to Anakin's special appointment by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine -- but then Windu is confrontational throughout the PT -- it is his undoing. Mace might have explained to Anakin precisely what Obi-Wan did, that Skywalker was the youngest to ever sit in a master recliner. He or Yoda also could have urged Anakin to be patient - for the rank of master would surely follow.

Instead, it is Obi-Wan who cedes these points to Anakin and after the council adjourns. This wisdom and ability to reconcile conflict is part of the reason why Obi-Wan sits on the council -- that, and as SInister aptly notes above, Kenobi is very balanced.