What do the sith stand for?

That has alwaysed botherd me. Why do the sith exist?

I mean what is the siths ultimate goal?

Why are they always in the jedi case? After all the republic and the Galactic Alliance has freedom of religion. Legaly you cant move against a sith unless they do something illegal.

Don't the sith serve the force? I mean If Vader and Palpy did not do what they did, The old republic would still exist. Their wold be no large galactic navies.

And the Sirruk, Yavetha, and Yuzzahn Vong would have pimp slaped the galaxy over and over, and over again.

 

I suppose if you want an answer that doesn't amount to my "Sith=Cardboard Cutout Evil" as you've stated over and over again you don't like. Plus, you are willing to listen to me...

The Sith stand for everything the Jedi stand for. They just stand for it without limitations. They find the idea that normal people (The Muggles of the Galaxy) ruling over the universe is pretty much an abomination and that the power should rest in the hands of the Force users. They believe that mercy and idealism are ideals solely created for the Masses to keep the weak in power without challenge while any truly intelligent person realizes that who wins writes the rules. They also believe that the Jedi treat the Force like a God when it should be treated like a tool (with the exception of a few people like Post-DE Palpatine and Darth Bane who treat the Dark Side like a God too)

So, they're always on the Jedi's case because the Jedi keep killing them everytime they try to put their theories in practice and stand in the way of a Sith Theocracy.

And no, they don't serve the Force. The Force is just something you use. It's like worshiping Gravity.

 

Everytime the Sith have been in power, they have set up cruel, darkside theocracies. (Sith Empire, Revan's Empire, New Sith Empire, Galactic Empire)

So, that's pretty much their goal.

 

power for power's sake I believe is what Darth Bane learned from Darth Revan's holocron. Make's sense for me.

It would likely depend on the individual... Darth Jacen seems to think he's doing what's best for the galaxy, so does Darth Krayt...

 

so the sith are self absorbed, self rightious, thugs. compleatly and utterly inlove with themselves!?


sigh, I see how that can work thats a little disappointing I mean as the longest technicly continuing darkside organization, i guess I expected something more.

I was Impressed by Trayas musings, and what i have read of Bane. but they way you decribe it Charles well I always hoped for a higher purpose from the Sith.

what you just decribed Charles are just a bunch of magical Nietzcheans.

That makes me a sad panda.

 

Well there's plenty of people who disagree with the "main brand of logic" for the most part. What I described above is pretty much Palpatinist Sith. His philosophy was spelled out in the appendix of Dark Empire and the Dark Empire Sourcebook where he talked about "The Weakness of Inferiors" and how they really existed to serve the Sith (Muggles) while the Jedi were utterly out of their gord.

Darth Revan's view for the Sith was that they existed to serve the greater good through the application of Force (pun intended). Darth Krayt and Jacen Solo had a similar view that the Jedi could theoretically become a greater force for Good in the universe if they were more flexible about their morality. Oddly, this was Count Dooku's viewpoint as well as Darth Tyranus envisioned a Jedi Order that wielded the Dark Side for the betterment of all while controlling the peoples of the universe with Force powers.

Darth Bane on the other hand solely believed in self achievement and the blessings of the Dark Side as a godlike gift to the universe.

Strangely, DE spelled out an interesting view that the Dark Side itself wasn't evil but a natural component of the universe that existed to provide the universe meaning through conflict, entropy, and chaos. This viewpoint is probably closest to Darth Traya's view despite her desire to destroy the Force.

 

Sith is a number of philosophies, techniques, teachings, and writings about the nature of power and the dark side of the Force. What the different incarnations of the Sith have in common is simple enough to see. What they actually stand for - their mission statement - differs, based on the particular incarnation, and some times from Sith Lord to Sith Lord, but it usually has something to do with accruing power.

 

I don't know but... I guess that describes it pretty well...

Whatever a Sith Lord was before his or her 'knighting', he or she is now an agent of evil.

There is no grey! People who can't feel the Force may be grey, but the guys who can and are trained to use it are either light or dark. The potentium is a lie.

That is all.

 

Don't the sith have a "There is no ____ ; there is only ____" equivalent to the Jedi?

 

Yep. It's a perversion of the Jedi Code.

 

uuuuuumm except that the force Can not be evil (Unless your of the notion that all life in the universe is evil) For one simple reason the force has is not truly sentient nor has no will and thus can not be evil.

The force is not good, it just binds all life together, it heals. and is a intensic infinate energy source. All it dose is seemingly attempt to achive some sort of balance. and thus neither good or evil.

The mind can certainly divide its aspects or spectrums as good or evil. But thats the perception of its users and thoes who it is weilded for and against.

Like Vergere said, dose slaughtering shiploads of people perfectly fine if you do so serenly? is that good? the lights side?

Dose and animal how kills as much as it believes it needs, and is pleased with its self is evil is the dark side?

 

Sabrajaguar: Sorry, I didn't want to turn your thread into another 'TRUE NATURE OF THE FORCE'-topic. My apoligies.

Just let me say that I believe that the Force is by nature a power of good or balance. The dark side is something that can come of one's inner fellings or by abuse of the normal force.

Just my two cents, you're welcome to disagree.

On topic: The Sith always stood for two things: galactic domination and eradication of the Jedi order. Both are, of course, intertwined (spelling? sorry).

 

Its important to note Sabra that neither the Jedi or Sith believe that about the Force. Vergere's belief that the Force is one single "neutral" entity is actually something that both would look at her strangely for. That doesn't necessarily mean she's wrong but they fall under the belief that the Force is divided into two different aspects like a head and feet. Part of the same body but entirely different purposes.

The Sith belief about the Dark Side isn't messianistic but they believe they draw on the power of entropy and emotions that are utterly beyond the scope of the Jedi Knighthood's abilities. They don't believe they draw on the same Force as the Jedi because the Dark Side is composed of the fear, hatred, and anger of not only themselves but the galaxy at large. It's why Darth Bane can indulge in the Dark Side of Onderon as opposed to just his own Dark Side. They don't believe in a Will of the Force (Darth Bane did).

The Jedi on the other hand believe there is a will of the Force. Whether you believe it or not, the Jedi Knights believe in Destiny and that the Destiny the Force provides is good even if the future is always in motion (you can deny your destiny but not escape it to quote Berserk). The Jedi believe that the Force is polluted by individual selfishness and its pure goodness is to be protected against evil created by man.

Both believe that their power is opposing one another.

 

If the dark side is a natural element of the Force it certainly does not give it the value of "bad" or "evil," however, sapient beings who revel in anger hatred and death will inevitably become evil. Even by Palpatine's own philosophy he makes himself an evil being. That said, places tainted with the dark side of the Force(and you should note that every place so tainted has had a corruption of natural growth and caused erratic behavior in animal life) literally call to the base desires in sapient beings. The lake on Ambria near Master Thon's home called and tempted Nomi Sunrider.

Also, there's a number of things wrong with saying the Force is not truly sentient... for one, a planet teeming with life and thus with the living Force became sentient. How did it do this? Because of the Force. Even if the Force is the sum-total of all life energy from all living beings(and you've got to admit this is sort of like the chicken or the egg question)... it will also be the sum-total of all the conscious energy of those beings. The Force, therefore, would be at least as sentient as all the sentient beings in the galaxy. It makes no rational sense to believe that limited consciousness could come from anywhere but Infinite Consciousness. Or that life bound by finitude could come from anywhere but boundless potential for life... something which is Absolutely Living.

It's hard to just say the Force doesn't have a will or a sentience simply on the notion that it is an energy field... it is an energy field as yet undetectable by scientific observation. It is a mystical energy field, and it is something more... as Obi-Wan attested in the novelization of ANH. It both controls your actions and obeys your commands. The Force is so much more than what any individual understands, and it does not make sense to dismiss the notion of the Force having a will and a consciousness... a consciousness that would seem to be without limit as it can grant individuals glimpses of the future and the past etc etc and not merely insight into what is going in a precise moment of time.

 

The motivations of an individual Sith might be nuanced and even deep... but as an order they are not very nuanced. Even the supposedly more benevolently motivated order of Darth Krayt is bent first and foremost on galactic domination. As Krayt put it he bent the Force to his will and as he took the galactic throne he would bend the galaxy to his will. Whatever the ideology, one thing remains constant... the desire for power and control.

 

The dark side also corrupts you into the kind of person that feeds it anger, hatred, and death.

 

Anger in the Force is like radiation.

Perhaps not innately evil but damn if its not bad for your health in significant amounts.

 

Well I've thought for a long time that the dark side was like the Force's id (which is supported, I think, by my theory that the Killik Hive Mind is a metaphor for the Force). Your id, while natural, would almost universally be considered "evil," cuz not a darn thing about it is...right. So while you can theoretically use, say, Force lightning for a good end, you've done damage to yourself, and you've just brutally tortured and killed your victim.

And in the end, that's what the whole fable of the Force is about. The ends do not always justify the means. If it's quicker and more effective and somehow serves the greater good to sacrifice some hostages to get the bad guy instead of risking it all to get the bad guy and save everyone, hooray, you made the tough decision. But now you're the kind of person that killed two hostages to kill one bad guy. Sure, it's probably a much, much, much better idea to just kill the supervillain than take him into custody, but he's unarmed, and once you do it, you've become the sort of person that can kill an unarmed prisoner. That's where the myopia sets in: Jacen beats Ailyn Vel to death against a desk to get the answers Ben gets by looking in her datapad; Anakin strangles the woman he just made sacrifice after sacrifice to save because of a half formed suspicion; sacrificing hostages is so much easier...we should just do that from now on. The temptation of the dark side of the Force is a representation of the nature of evil in all men.

 

Why are the answers in here so complex? Don't the Sith strive for power? Isn't that their ulimate goal?

 

Because some people aren't satisfied with "they're evil."

 

You know, in the Appendix for Dark Empire, there's a hilarious line that's utterly serious. It basically says Luke Skywalker is stunned to find out Sith philosophy doesn't have any mystery to it. It's crude, inelegant, and able to be understood by a five year old.

Pretty much "We do it because we can and there's nothing you can do to stop us!"

Luke was expecting something a bit more nuanced I suppose.

 

Quoooooooote it. Sounds like a rather good little tidbit.

Frankly, I'm not surprised. Luke was trying to rationalize it, true to form, to try and see the thinking behind it, to understand, to give the benefit in the doubt. In the end, he realizes he's found that the dark side is motiveless evil, the essence of evil, evil as a concept, so if you serve that, seek to embody that...there's not a whole lot more to it.

 

I'm not sure I still have my copy.

Anyone have the book for the exact one.

All I remember is "The Dark Side's teachings are surprisingly crude and inelegant in their nature. He struggles to hold back his repulsion as he delves deeper into the depravity of the Emperor's teachings."