What happened between ESB and ROTJ?

I had always assumed that, after Darth Vader chopped Luke's hand off, Luke returned to finish his training with Yoda and then went to save Han Solo (claiming "I am a Jedi Knight" in his message to Jabba and displaying much more confidence and skills than he had in ESB).

But, watching ROTJ again last night, it is clear that Luke didn't go back to Yoda until after he saved Han.

So, how did Luke improve so much between ESB and ROTJ?

Thanks.

 

If you like the EU, back in 1996 there was a great novel/comic-book/video-game called Shadows of the Empire, which explained how Luke improved so much between ESB & ROTJ. Of course, among fans it's debatable whether or not this story is considered canon.

 

That's what happened.

 

Thanks. So basically, Luke flew all over the galaxy fighting villains and collecting "experience points" instead of returning to Yoda?

 

He finds Ben's old journal, meditations on the Force, and a manual on how to construct a lightsaber in his abandoned hut, too; in addition, SOTE also shows some great scenes of Luke training HIMSELF- such as this bit where he runs across a tightrope (yes, I'm not misspeaking here; he's gotten to the point where he can literally flat-out RUN across a tightrope without falling) without a safety net.

Also some great characterization here, since Luke has trouble concentrating, what with Vader's "I am your father!" ringing in his ears when he tries to relax; they describe Luke running just a little bit faster, as if to escape it.

 

Personally, I always found the set up of ROTJ extremely nonesensical. From why the heck everyone waited around for so long, to the total non-plan of the rescue (what WAS the plan anyway? When you break it down, it doesn't add up!). Shadows of the Empire had to invent a whole new storyline for it to really make sense.

By the films themselves it seems this is what happend:

-Luke didn't return to Yoda. Why not is anyone's guess, but he seems to think he's a Jedi Knight now. Somehow he built a lightsaber as well, though it's not explained how he knew how to do this.
-Everyone seems to have waited around for at least a few weeks, if not months.
-Chewbacca was captured by Jabba
-Lando somehow became Jabbas personal guard.

The plan seems to have been something like this:
-Lando infiltrates Jabbas palace
-Leia then shows up in disguise and whisks away Han in the night. This fails to explain why Lando had to be there in the first place. If he was there to aid in the escape, he didn't do a very good job.
-In the meantime, Luke has sold R2D2 and C3P0 to Jabba. Why this was necessary is not clear, especially when Leia seems to have been poised to do everything herself. R2-D2 is there for the hidden lightsaber, but if Leia is rescuing Han on her own they don't need R2D2 to hide a lightsaber, and if Luke was supposed to be there during the rescue he failed to show up on time. And when Luke shows up he just force-chokes his way in there--what was the point of doing all this? And what was the point of hiding the lightsaber if he just marches up and says he is there to kill Jabba? Wouldn't he have benefited from just keeping his lightsaber and using it? And even if R2-D2 was a plan B, how were they planning to then rescue the droids? And why was Chewie sold to Jabba?
-Instead of just rescuing Han, Luke now has to 2)rescue Chewbacca, 3)rescue the droids, and 3) rescue Leia if she gets caught, which she did. And Lando still has to somehow flee the scene.

I dunno, just doesn't seem thought-out to me. Seems like a set up to have everyone get caught and then have a daring escape sequence.

 

I always viewed 3PO and R2's presence with the lightsaber as Plan B. I think the only thing Luke didn't anticipate was his fight with the Rancor. The plan as I see it:

Lando is there to gather intelligence. Figure out the layout of Jabba's palace and where Han is being kept. He had to have some way to communicate with Luke and sent this info back. R2 and 3PO were placed there for back up, or, R2 could have been that communication device. Lando's got all his info, R2 rolls in, and they find a hidden place to record a message that R2 sends to Luke. Then Leia shows up.

Plan A is simple, Leia gains access with Chewie. Then at night sneaks to Han, frees him and leaves. In the confusion the next morning, Chewie, with Lando's help, breaks out, taking the droids with them. But, Luke knew that the plan wasn't a guaranteed success, so he also had Plan B. Which was go in and get captured. He knew he could get to Jabba without being killed, and he may have known that Jabba would take them to Sarlacc, maybe its where Jabba does all his executions, and from there, he would attack, having placed back up all around him in R2 with his lightsaber, Chewie, Lando and Leia.

 

He finds Ben's old journal, meditations on the Force, and a manual on how to construct a lightsaber in his abandoned hut, too; in addition, SOTE also shows some great scenes of Luke training HIMSELF- such as this bit where he runs across a tightrope (yes, I'm not misspeaking here; he's gotten to the point where he can literally flat-out RUN across a tightrope without falling) without a safety net.


Huh? This is how Luke became a fully trained Jedi Knight? Oh God. No wonder I consider ROTJ to be the weakest film in the trilogy.

 

He obviously read "Jedi Training for Dummies."

 

I think the advancement of Luke's skills between films tends to be exaggerated. When he leaves Yoda to face Vader in ESB, he's clearly a highly skilled fighter as he is able to hold his own with a Dark Lord for at least the first couple of rounds. When he arrives at Jabba's Palace, the skills that he displays are nothing beyond what we would expect from him, given his performance in the last movie. In my opinion, it's a wider leap between "trusting" the Force in the Death Star trench and telekinetically removing his lightsaber from the ice in the Wampa's cave. But even that doesn't seem too extreme--to me, the act of opening his mind to the power of the Force seems to be the first domino that leads to his later feats and skills. Once he trusts that he can harness this mystical power, many of the skills and powers that he is able to wield come naturally.

 

I found two following parts of the duel that lead me to believe Vader was holding back.

1. When Luke lands that kick, Vader becomes MUCH more aggressive, launching a sneak attack and then, of course, the famous telekinetic barrage.

2. The INSTANT Luke strikes Vader, the latter's swordplay becomes so much more aggressive and powerful that Luke is beaten as handily as Vader himself will be in ROTJ.

Notice that when Luke proves able to get a kick in, Vader kicks things up a notch, and the INSTANT Luke proves capable of landing a saber strike, he's suddenly beaten down in one of the most one-sided displays in the Saga (again, right up there with how freaked-out Luke in ROTJ does the same to Vader).

In other words, Vader felt it would be "All too easy", Luke proved him wrong, and then Vader ceased holding anything back- the result being that Luke is so one-sidedly trounced it's actually HILARIOUS.

Then we get a Luke in ROTJ who duels Vader on exactly even ground, is able to evade his father at will, and then suddenly repays Vader for the one-sided beatdown he got in the LAST film.

All of this indicates a great increase of power. Besides, you go read SOTE, and you see Luke doing things ESB Luke just plain isn't CAPABLE of.

Like, say, facing a human-replica droid assasin- one so skilled she's capable of insta-PWNing the greatest martial artists in the Galaxy at will- in single, unarmed combat, and just utterly TROUNCING her.

 

I didn't even like SOTE, but just hearing someone else recount the events makes me feel all happy and geeky. Thanks dewback rancher, and long live EU.

 

What's also fun is that the SotE novel's description of that fight is basically what happens when Neo realizes he's the One in the first Matrix.

 

The way I see it, what we witness in ROTJ is the daring Plan A.
The idea was to 1: free Han from the carbonite to make the rescue easier, 2: take the situation outside to make the operation easier yet, 3: get everyone in useful positions to help out with the rescue and 4: provide Luke with a lightsaber to seal the deal.
All other attempts to rescue Han were merely attempts to avoid further bloodshed. Jabba put too much value on Han to let them off that easily, though.

For this plan to work, Luke needed to construct a new lightsaber. Considering his insufficient skills in TESB, that must have taken him a while ("I see you have constructed a new lightsaber. Your skills are complete.").
Therefore, I don't think it's too far-fetched to assume that Luke would've had the time to improve his skills somewhat inbetween episodes. If he had returned to Dagobah, however, I seriously doubt that he would've been allowed to interrupt his training yet again to embark on another rescue mission.

This is the reason why Luke is skirting the dark side in ROTJ. He is greatly troubled by what Vader has told him and wants to progress quickly in order to overcome the hardships that lie ahead. Thus, he chooses a quicker and easier path...





ROTJ - it makes sense
/LM

 

I agree and well said. It makes sense to me as well. The stronger you believe the more power you can attain. And with Lukes natural force talent, he will quickly double his power.

I think i heard somewhere that it past a whole year between ESB and ROTJ. Maybe they had trouble locating Jabba and his underground faction.

 

Or maybe they had trouble locating Boba Fett and the frozen Solo? As the film opens, it seems that Fett has just gotten there, 'cause I don't see why he would hang around for too long. If they've been trailing Fett and infiltrating Jabba at the same time, waiting for the right moment, it's no wonder it's been a tad too busy for Luke to return to Yoda. Remember that the first thing Luke does once Han is free is return to Dagobah.

That's a very straight forward set of priorities, worthy of a Jedi in the Qui-Gon lineage: First, rescue friend. Second, return to complete training. I have no problem understanding why Luke doesn't head off to Dagobah while everyone else scramble for Solo. "Good luck, see you all in like three or four months, maybe." No way.

Luke doesn't think he's a Jedi Knight, that's a bluff. We get that when Luke is surprised at Yoda's "no more training do you require." It's likely, from what we see in AOTC and ANH, that Jedi are feared warriors on Tatooine. So naturally Luke will play that card the best he can, in order to save Solo.

Once Solo is safe, Luke keeps his promise to Yoda. A man of his word.

 

Maybe Boba was hanging around because Jabba had hired him for another assignment?
Either way, it would make sense for the heroes to intercept the bounty hunter, to avoid having to deal with Jabba and his entourage. That would probably delay the delivery of Han as Boba would be forced to make detours in order to avoid getting caught.





Captures are avoidable
/LM

 

Is it just me or that people here in this thread actually never even read Shadows of the Empire except for me? I've read the darn novel 4 times.

If you want to know what went on between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, then go read the Shadows of the Empire novel for crying out loud

 

Someone will probably be at you for suggesting that EU is necessary to make sense of the movies. But in any case, for what happens between these two films the beginning of ROTJ presents a completely straight forward and sensible scenario. No EU needed.

 

It's often more engaging to extrapolate from just the movies then simply go "read book" and be done with it. Especially now where 95% of the time there is some answer somewhere.

That said, I wish SotE hadn't happened between TESB and RotJ. I wish a version of SotE had happened in place of RotJ('s first half)...

 

^ Intriguing idea! I would have liked that film, no doubt.

JMK: I have read SOTE and I thought it was quite fetching. However, when I'm discussing a topic like this, I find it more engaging to extrapolate from just the movies, as TLJ so eloquently put it.





Shadows are fetching
/LM

 

He finds Ben's old journal, meditations on the Force, and a manual on how to construct a lightsaber in his abandoned hut, too
It does make sense that Luke stayed at Kenobi's place instead of the trashed Lars Homestead.

 

I would've thought that referencing it so frequently would've given you the idea that I'm a huge fan of the book, too- but then, I guess that could be mistaken for frequent Wook referencing. So, no harm no foul.

 

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Mandalorians happened.

 

star wars shadows of the empire is probably the greatest star wars novel ever. it also is technically g-canon since not only does the outrider appear in the se of a new hope. but George Lucas reportedly said that he liked the book so much he would have made a movie of it in the 80s when the actors were younger. it's pretty much a necessity for any star wars fan to read it.