Discussions What happens when Sith die?

Like, do they become one with the dark side or something?

It's something I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking... I don't know if anything has ever been said about it one way or the other. I consider myself reasonably knowledgable on SW, but i sure haven't read every SW publication there is, not by a long shot. So while I haven't seen any commentary on that that I can remember, there may be something said about it somewhere.

Input? Has this ever been touched on?

 

From what I recall about ROTS novelization, the Sith are always trying to learn the secret of eternal life, but they never can master it. One has to be selfless and such things that the Sith are not.

 

Haven't there been a few older sith who actually managed to "inhabit" certain locations? I'm not 100% sure but I think there may have been stories of people like Naga Sadow being around in a temple on Yavin for like a few thousand years? But I could be wrong.

Otherwise, I think that they just generally die. Nothing has been said about force ghosts or anything, and from most of what I read they used holocrons to pass down any knowledge that they needed to. But I also don't recall on this being touched on too much in anything. In fact the only thing I can think of is the quote from Darth Bane (which happens to be one of my favourite quotes from anything SW related):

"Glory is of no use to the dead."

Clearly he seems to think that there isn't much of a sith afterlife, particularly given that he then goes looking for a body-transfer method later on.

 

Moving to EUC from Saga, there's virtually nothing in the films addressing this.

 

Well if they prove their worth, they get a place in a constellation, which is a heaven for sith.... lol jk



I'm sure the Sith would have made up their own mythology/religious myth about this as what happens after death is something every single religion since the dawn of time has some sort of way of addressing this.

 

Sometimes, when a Sith Lord refused to become one with the Force, he could remained bound to the physical world through an artifact or a location. This is why Korriban, tombworld of the Sith, was full of ghosts. These Sith ghosts, however, are constantly weary, unlike their Jedi counterparts. Another difference is that the Jedi spirits can only manifest themselves for a limited time span before they end up becoming one with the Force for good, while the Sith ghosts are condemned to linger forever in pain (unless they are destroyed).

Otherwise, it seems that the spirits of deceased Sith Lord go to Chaos (or Hell), a region of the Netherworld of the Force in which they would be forced to harbor their ill feelings forever.

 

I like how the Yoda arc from Season Six of The Clone Wars handled this. It was implied that the Sith become part of the dark side of the Force without retaining their individuality. In fact, when Yoda went to Korriban, the spirits of the Sith essentially had no individuality. They basically said, "There is no life after death, Jedi. We will tell them you are here, and you will die and be nothing." The dark side seemed to be using elements of Darth Bane's personality without him actually having sentience and speaking to Yoda. I think some Sith Lords like Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun used sorcery and other means to bind themselves to the physical world, but this link could be cut in various ways.

 

I was curious about this, but as it pertains to Mother Talzin, who wasn't a Sith, but she used the darkside and her magicks to manipulate the Force. She was able to exist between the physical and spirit realms, I wonder if any Sith were capable of the same? She was described as immortal, and still may dwell on Dathomir, though her body is dead. She shared knowledge with Sidious, so perhaps he was capable of the same before his death.

 

They finally escape Jedi persecution.

 

Darth Valkyrus

It's not entirely set in stone, and it varies depending on the Sith in question. The ancient Sith typically bound their spirits to physical objects or locations (usually their tombs), and thus haunted the physical world as dark side specters. Sith could also possess other bodies in this state, or even transfer their intellect between bodies prior to death in order to escape it.

A common concept throughout the EU is 'Chaos,' which could either be some sort of dark side hell, in the Western tradition, or perhaps just be a label referring to a dark sider's subjective experience of the netherworld of the Force. The spirit of Dark Lord Freedon Nadd claimed to have been summoned from Chaos, and the spirit of Palpatine is said to be held in Chaos by the spirit of every Jedi who had ever died in order to prevent him returning to life. Darth Plagueis believed Chaos to essentially be a myth, attributing it to beings wishing to retain their identity like immortality-obsessed Sith Lords experiencing becoming 'one with the Force' as an intensely negative experience, unlike the Jedi.

I'm very much a Sith sympathiser and not a fan of a Western style afterlife (or indeed any) in Star Wars, so I'm inclined to agree with Plagueis. As Jax Pavan pondered, what does becoming 'one with the Force' even mean? To a logical positivist, the phrase "becoming one with the Force" is entirely unintelligible, nonsensical and meaningless; it's just putting a fancy spin on "your identity, or soul if you prefer, is annihilated and lost forever as you die, like anything else, like, you know, in real life." So I am of the opinion that, without making efforts to preserve their consciousness through remaining bound to the physical world, a Sith, like, IMO, any other being in the galaxy, Force sensitive or otherwise, just dies, who they are being utterly destroyed. What of the Jedi? Well, even the few who learn a specific technique to retain their identity for a time become 'one with the Force' eventually, so I'm of the opinion that the Sith actually surpassed the Jedi in terms of attaining immortality, as, without the dark side rituals that allowed a Sith spirit to remain bound to the physical world, Jedi ghosts would just fade away into oblivion, a permanent cessation of existence.

Well put.

 

Thank you, sir.

 

"Where I am, there is no death. Where death is, there is no I."

- Epicurus.

 

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

 

Chaos seems to be the place where they go, but some guys like Darth Tenebrous/DE Sidious/Exar Kun/Freedon Nadd/Naga Sadow can linger on due to being immensely powerful in the force or Maxi chlorian manipulation/Sith techniques. Its pretty inconsistent for one thing, but only Sidious was able to come back from the brink.

 

Qui-Gon and Yoda seem to think it counts as "Eternal life" in the ROTS novel though.

"An infinite mystery is the Force." Yoda lifted his head and turned his gaze out into the wheel of stars. "Much to learn, there still is."
And you will have time to learn it.
"Infinite knowledge..." Yoda shook his head. "Infinite time, does that require."
With my help, you can learn to join with the Force, yet retain consciousness. You can join your light to it forever, Perhaps in time, even your physical self.
Yoda did not move. "Eternal life..."
The ultimate goal of the Sith, yet they can never achieve it; it comes only by the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed. Love is the answer to the darkness.
"Become one with the Force, yet influence still to have..." Yoda mused. "A power greater than all, it is."
It cannot be granted; it can only be taught. It is yours to learn, if you wish it.
Slowly, Yoda nodded. "A very great Jedi Master you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. A very great Jedi Master you always were, but too blind I was to see it."
He rose, and folded his hands before him, and inclined his head in the Jedi bow of respect.
The bow of the student, in the presence of the Master.
"Your apprentice, I gratefully become."​

The source that has Force Ghosts "move on" is Heir to the Empire:


"Luke?"
The voice came softly but insistently. Pausing amid the familiar landscape of Tatooine—familiar, yet oddly distorted—Luke Skywalker turned to look.
An equally familiar figure stood there watching him. "Hello, Ben," Luke said, his voice sounding sluggish in his ears. "Been a long time."
"It has indeed," Obi-Wan Kenobi said gravely. "And I'm afraid that it will be longer still until the next time. I've come to say good-bye, Luke."
The landscape seemed to tremble; and abruptly, a small part of Luke's mind remembered that he was asleep. Asleep in his suite in the Imperial Palace, and dreaming of Ben Kenobi.
"No, I'm not a dream," Ben assured him, answering Luke's unspoken thought. "But the distances separating us have become too great for me to appear to you in any other way. Now, even this last path is being closed to me."
"No," Luke heard himself say. "You can't leave us, Ben. We need you."
Ben's eyebrows lifted slightly, and a hint of his old smile touched his lips. "You don't need me, Luke. You are a Jedi, strong in the Force." The smile faded, and for a moment his eyes seemed to focus on something Luke couldn't see. "At any rate," he added quietly, "the decision is not mine to make. I have lingered too long already, and can no longer postpone my journey from this life to what lies beyond."
A memory stirred: Yoda on his deathbed, and Luke pleading with him not to die. Strong am I in the Force, the Jedi Master had told him softly. But not that strong.
"It is the pattern of all life to move on," Ben reminded him. "You, too, will face this same journey one day." Again, his attention drifted away, then returned. "You are strong in the Force, Luke, and with perseverance and discipline you will grow stronger still." His gaze hardened. "But you must never relax your guard. The Emperor is gone, but the dark side is still powerful. Never forget that."
"I won't," Luke promised.
Ben's face softened, and again he smiled. "You will yet face great dangers, Luke," he said. "But you will also find new allies, at times and places where you expect them least."
"New allies?" Luke echoed. "Who are they?"
The vision seemed to waver and become fainter. "And now, farewell," Ben said, as if he hadn't heard the question. "I loved you as a son, and as a student, and as a friend. Until we meet again, may the Force be with you."
"Ben—!"
But Ben turned, and the image faded... and in the dream, Luke knew he was gone. Then I am alone, he told himself. I am the last of the Jedi.
He seemed to hear Ben's voice, faint and indistinct, as if from a great distance. "Not the last of the old Jedi, Luke. The first of the new."


Even in the EU things may have changed since then though. For example: in Kevin J Anderson's Champions of the Force, Exar Kun's old master appears 4000 years later when Luke's apprentices are vanquishing him, to tell him:


"Together Jedi can overcome their weaknesses. Exar Kun- my student- you are defeated at last."

Though that might be closer to a sudden return, than hanging around for 4000 years until Kun's vanquished permanently.

 

Given the fact Sith are afraid of Death and losing their Powers ... it seems to depend really on the Sith Lord themselves - given some like Darth Andeddu had Essence Transfer able to retain their Force spirit in a physical medium although some like Darth Sion once dead they just simply faded into emptiness ...

Ah! But I'm guess in anycase for Palpatine his 'deaths' were far from pleasant and far from 'peaceful' and 'painless' given also the fact how Palpatine indeed in Dark Empire - he claimed how via Essence Transfer when his current Clone body was 'dying' the process was painful and the 'dying' is something you'd want to wish for death sooner ... and the fact how when he was finally brought down and taken with Brand - cast into Chaos - it was stated he would be in an eternity of agony and anguish with no respite ...

And then again some like Darth Andeddu died rather violently in an explosion of Dark Force Raw Energy... it must have been also an 'unstable' taste of death for him ...

Plus also how Darth Andeddu literally died of fear and anguish when Darth Wylock III used illusions to kill him ... probably ironic considering he was the God King of Prakith and he used and invented Essence Transfer...

Oh and who could forget Count Dooku? Must have been a moment of sharp burning pain ... and then nothing ... Darkness ... Emptiness ... Void ... when Anakin gave him a nice 'HEADING' for good ...

 

Sidious was actually powerful via sheer force of will to escape Chaos and return to the universe as a spirit.

 

Didn't he have help from Pestage and various other spirits though?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine

After the destruction of the second Death Star, Palpatine's spirit was forced to journey in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void, with both Sate Pestage and various deceased Sith spirits aiding him in his journey back to the living plane of existence,[157] eventually taking possession of the body of Emperor's Hand Jeng Droga.

 

Sidious was powerful enough to escape Chaos and return on his own, if memory serves me. It took the power of several Jedi spirits to keep him from ever returning again.

I think that the Sith generally don't have an identity when they become one with the Force in Chaos. Their memories and so on would remain, but they would be in such pain that they would be a collective more than individuals, I think I believe that when we see Sith spirits in the EU, these are Sith Lords and sorcerers who were able to bind their souls to the material worlds or to cling to individuals/bodies.

I imagine that Jedi spirits are more content and serene generally in the netherworld of the Force. They have probably some sense of their identities, but they're more probably focused on the cosmic unity of everything. I view the Force in pantheistic or monistic terms.

 

Well said! But then again FEAR - and FEAR of DEATH is a foremost aspect of the Sith - since Ancient Sith to the One Sith era one way or another in a sense - given even the most Powerful of Sith - well I'll bet then given Palpatine in Dark Empire in desperation sought advice from the Ancient Sith Lords on Korriban whom advised him to possess Leia's then youngest unborn child ... when his fresh clone bodies were dying rapidly ... plus the fact how Darth Plagueis - Palpatine remarked 'the only thing he (Darth Plagueis)' was afraid of was ... losing his Power...which ofc he did lose in the end ...' and the fact how Sith at times go to desperate and violently painful lengths to keep themselves alive ... look at Darth Andeddu - the nature and risks of Essence Transfer, Darth Nihilus - a living Wound in the Force Galactus Style, Darth Sion - a walking, talking Ancient Sith Mummy more or less who was finally 'glad to have left this place at last ...'

But indeed - perhaps one could argue the Sith Lords whom were able to reappear as spirits, familiars and apparitions did require a form of a Sith Ritual or Physical Medium to help them contain their essence and spirit although once they got killed ... that was usually it ...

 

Absolutely. The unique thing about some Sith like Darth Sion was that they were kept alive, even as living corpses, as it were, by their sheer hatred. I think that it wasn't just the cybernetics keeping Vader alive: It was also his dark will and abhorrence. And you're right. Sidious was kept alive by essence transfer, like quite a few Sith. I was just talking about my view of the Sith by the time they did pass on.

Darth Nihilus is something else. EvanNova95 quoted GreyJedi's statement that Darth Nihilus, Sion, and Vitiate were all individuals whose very natures were permanently altered. Their nature was changed, making them more powerful than they were ever meant to be. He spoke of Anakin Skywalker (before his immolation), Luke, Leia, and the Ones and Abeloth as Force anomalies, meaning that they had an indeterminate level of Force potential. Apparently, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, Hazen, and others temporarily enhanced their power through talismans and other magical objects, whereas Nihilus, Sion, and Vitiate were permanently altered to become more powerful. Scary stuff.

 

Hello again! Ah - gotcha now - so Sith when they really pass on? Well we don't really see any 'Force Ghost' Sith really - that is strictly speaking putting aside how they resorted to Physical Mediums, Arcane Sith Rituals, Ancient sites of Power ...given as the Sith are afraid of PHYSICAL DEATH they probably knew that due to what they were doing by painful means - in the end they probably would end up like Palpatine or rather in extreme cases of agony and pain ... so that is dragged into Chaos? Or even 'fade into emptiness...' and not to return then ...

As with Darth Nihilus - well now that you mention it - wouldn't you say Sith like him whom got their Power though 'Nature of the Force' rather than relying on Physical Mediums, Talismans or Magical Amulets or Arcane objects ... wouldn't that indeed make them even MORE POWERFUL in the long term ... and yet look at the consequences; Darth Nihilus must keep feeding and it drove him more or less more into an insano ... and ironic isn't it how he is a Sith Lord BUT he didn't 'give a Force' about the Sith... and yet he dies in a rather violent way in the end exploding into a nexus of Dark Side Energy ...then we have Darth Sion whom was probably long dead the moment he already remarked 'I am gland to have left this place at last...'

And haven't you noted the way how Sith go to extreme painful ways to keep themselves alive - and in a very painful agonizing manner - wouldn't you say this form of Immortality was basically just an extension of Death? So technically if one is Immortal - they are already DEAD in a sense that they will gradually succumb to boredom or mundane natures and some even 'wish for Death...' ... I mean looking at LOTR the Two Towers when Galadriel was warned whilst she was agelessly Immortal - due to her love for Aragorn if she chose to stay with him - he will gradually die whilst Galadriel will only enjoy 'long lonely years ...wasted slowly ...'

 

If the Jedi and Yoda were wrong about there being able to retain an existence past death( the whole Yoda arc in season 6), and Talzin was able to move in and out've the spirit realm and physical realm and if all sentients are these luminous beings and not crude matter(body) as Yoda believes by the OT then its feasible that the Sith's spirits either remain in a purgatory like state between the realms or merge into the general dark side which should still be part of the same energy field described as the Force, but the negative. If hast to be a two way door or two mirror deal. If Jedi can do it, certain a Sith should be able to do it. Those Force Priestesses were rather ambiguous but we're lead to believe on the side of Light which was also described as the goodside and the darkside was described as the bad(luke OT). Some parts of the Force Priestess were quite dark side-like, yet that entity was supposed to be one being originally that was somehow able to split itself into different parts and comes off something like Vordamort's horcruxes. In fact it comes off a pseudo-deity, but one Yoda in all his lifetime knew nothing of but somehow Jinn did. The Mortis family were odd too. The EU used Hell, which exists in Star Wars, as does the term God. The darksiders were said to go to hell or chaos it was called I think.

Vanessa Marchall fan speculated that possibly The Inquisitor(Isaacs) could still attack Ezra through the spirit world, through his dreams or something from what I remember. It is reasonable to believe the darkside can manifest itself in any form it wishes as it could be made up of all the evil Force wielders that the galaxy or universe spawned for many thousands of years, their conscious should still be imprinted in their midiclorians that become spirits or the collective Lightside and whatever that the Jedi believed, the one with the Force stuff. Too much Lightside is also a bad thing, there has to be an even balance, too much good or too much bad is no good. So I cant see the Force punishing itself , if its neither truly good or truly evil but both or none, its what people choose to do. Dunno.

 

In the Expanded Universe, most Dark Force Users are trapped in the Dark Side of the Force afterlife, which is a kind of Hell or Purgatory.

Sith Lords can survive as Dark Side Spectres tied to their tombs.