Saga What if... Anakin didn't die in ROTJ, was alive in ST?

Let's say Anakin/Vader didn't die in ROTJ (this isn't a theory, it's a what if).

Instead, Luke brings him back to the forest moon of Endor in secret, injured but stable. Eventually Luke helps him get new, more human, cybernetic parts (and no more helmet). He comes forward to Mon Mothma and provides crucial intelligence that hastens the end of the Empire even more quickly, and less bloody, than the short civil war between the battles of Endor and Jakku... redeeming himself in the eyes of the New Republic too (with Mothma giving him a pardon, provided he stay out of the public eye), and even builds a relationship with Leia. Eventually he even meets Leia's toddler son, Ben, and helps Luke rebuild the Jedi order.

Fast-forward to the time of The Force Awakens, with the emergence of Snoke and the First Order.

What's different? Does Ben Organa-Solo still turn to the dark side and force Luke into self-imposed exile, being mentored in the Jedi ways by both his uncle and maternal grandfather? If not, how well do Snoke, the First Order, and Starkiller Base fare without Kylo Ren and with an active Luke, Anakin, Ben, and small New Jedi Order?

(I think he'd be only 74 years old in TFA)

 

I guess Snoke would find himself another force sensitive to do his bidding, as Ben wouldn't be an option for him.

 

Does he need to be "alive"? What was Obi Wan for 66% of the original trilogy? (Or Qui Gon for that matter).

He would either still be the same age as Luke was in ROTJ, in ghost form. Or the same age as Luke is now, if ghosts age.

 

To change the events, it may be necessary for Anakin to be alive. Because it could be possible for Darksiders to prevent Force Ghosts to appear, as hinted by Obi Wan telling Luke that he couldn't help Luke on the second Death Star.

 

Well that would be a pertinent plot point and theme. Anakin may be able to influence or guide people in calm, ideal conditions. But on the night, the person has to take responsibility for their own choices without being prompted.

(except for Luke while being pursued by Vader in the death star trench

 

You're referring to TESB.

Obi-Wan can't help Luke because he's a spirit. He can't physically interact with anything in the real world. It has nothing to do with "dark siders" preventing anything.

 

"Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started.

Spoiler

 

Sooner or later, someone would probably try to punish/kill him. TFA might open with an assassination attempt.
I also imagine his relationship with Leia would be on the frosty side.

 

"Excuse me General Organa, but I'm afraid your choice of lipstick and wardrobe may not be entirely stable. The chances of not scaring children are three thousand seven hundred and twenty to one...and screaming about it won't help you.!"

 

Except logs, which he finds quite comfortable to sit on



I think if Anakin were still alive he'd go back to podracing. "I went back to the only thing I was ever good at. Apart from killing etc".

 

It’s a bit like asking “What if Qui-Gon hadn’t died in TPM?”. So much could/would have been different.
That’s a fitting comparison, too, since their deaths mirror each other GL bookended his story with the deaths of two characters of great importance. I don’t think the title of “Duel of the fates” was a coincidence...

To keep that observation on topic, I’ll say that it’s possible that Anakin was originally destined to be trained by Qui-Gon, NOT turn to the dark side and survive the destruction of the Sith. But then, the Empire might not have existed at all and things would’ve been VERY different.

But if we have a plausible scenario for Anakin’s survival even after having been Darth Vader, there’s still that possibility that he was originally destined to survive and maintain the balance of the Force.
If that is the case, there is also the possibility that Rey is his successor - and in that case, she may not have been part of the story if Anakin hadn’t died.

 

Wrong. Watch the branches on the trees move when he walks over to talk with Luke on Dagobah -Then sits on a log!

Just saw Darth Downunder noticed the log also!

 

I think he would be like a great ancient sage like the father of The Clone Wars

 

Oh, this is a fanfiction just begging to be written. How awesomely cool this plot twist would be. I think Snoke would have to find some other apprentice because with a redeemed Anakin, Ben would have a different sort of role model. And Anakin as a tactical asset would help defeat the First Order hopefully without losing Hosnian Prime. And if he allied with Thrawn, oh Loving it!

 

If Anakin were turned back to good in ROTJ but not killed by saving Luke, I would imagine he'd be brought into the custody of the New Republic to face trial for a vast slew of war crimes and...other general treacheries. Surely he would go willingly, supposedly being a Jedi again, but depsite his destroying the Emperor-no matter what he or Luke says-there's no way the Republic's leaders would allow him to just roam free, unpunished after all he's done over the years. I suppose, unless he agreed to be used as a way to help them do away with the imperial remnants as a kind of service-related punishment, and perhaps kept under close supervision by Luke and locked up whenever he's not assisting with some mission or other.

Either way, I don't see that there'd have been any way Anakin would've been allowed to just roam free, build a life, visit family, or be reinstated as a Jedi or whatever. After reading the opinions of the galaxy as a whole in Bloodline, once it was revealed that Luke and Leia were his children, I doubt they would've looked upon him favorably. And if he were kept alive and/or allowed some little bit of freedom (after HEAVY pleading on Luke's part), he wouldn't be able to be like "It's okay, I'm good again!" and the people would be like "Oh, okay then-welcome back!" the galaxy would generally not think well of him, essentially making him live out his days in shame...

Sad, but unfortunately realistic.

 

No reconciliation process in the post Civil War New Republic then?

Is there evidence in the films of Vader committing atrocities?

Leia would testify that destroying Alderann was Tarkin's play. And Vader's defection would have had a significant influence on the Imperial will and capacity to fight on post Endor.

 

I never understood why she was ostracized because it's not like she was still conspiring anything. I understand that this can apply to real life but...It felt a little too tacky.

 

I think TLJ might give us more insight on that. Hopefully, it will address the father Vader issue.

 

Two words:

Jedi. Purge.


I'd say that alone would be considered by the senate/Republic to be an atrocity.


There are other canon materials that cover the things Darth Vader has done besides the films-which still count in the overall story of the GFFA. Doesn't have to have just occurred in the films. But just to pick ONE film example out of the mix, just off the top of my head: How about the torture and interrogation of an Alderaanian princess? His hands were directly involved in that-there's no way to spin responsibility off of him. The killing of several Rebel Alliance soldiers, whether by lightsaber (R1), force choke or TIE attack (ANH). Going back further, how about the straight up assassination (without trial) of an entire cabinet of Senators and galactic leaders on Mustafar? And also, although he wasn't "holding the bloody knife," so to speak, Vader DID command the imperial fleet, especially in ESB, which was responsible for...well...you know.

These are just the film based examples. Somehow I doubt Leia would be able to successfully spin the "victim of Sidious' manipulation" angle with all of that.

 

If there is "evidence" because it happens in the movies then there is evidence that Anakin was duped into turning to the darkside etc, diminishing his responsibility. But evidence of the betrayal of the Jedi would be lost or buried. The senate enthusiastically endorsed the outlawing of the Jedi at the time. The Alliance were fighting to get their system of government back. Not to avenge the Jedi.

Killing rebel troops during civil war battles would not be considered an atrocity. Being a combatant on the losing side in a war doesn't make you a criminal unless the victors are simply interested in reprisals and tyranny of their own.

 

I get the point you're trying to make.

But there's no way a government that rose out of a force rebelling against an evil empire would simply let its leaders go scot-free, without any sort of consequence. Especially the ones at the top, like Darth Vader. They are responsible for literally the destruction, enslavement and impoverishment of worlds. In a way, it could even be argued that Anakin helped start all this mess. Yes, he was manipulated, but after decades of war and a galaxy thrown in turmoil, I doubt they'd have just let him play the "manipulated victim" card. He is still responsible for his choices. The Jedi may be more willing to understand and forgive him, but not the galaxy at large.

Again, referencing the non-film materials for examples there, but for an in-film example, how about the exploitation of Jedha's resources, causing it to become a desolate wasteland (as they said in the film) and ultimately destroying its main city just to cover their tracks. That IS an atrocity, by any standards.

What would the allied countries have done with Adolf Hitler if we had captured him in WWII, and he admitted he was wrong to do all that? Let him live in a mountain home in Evergreen, CO and go skiing with his family on weekends? No. Same principle here.

The main point I was making though, is that regardless of what the senate decides to do with Anakin post ROTJ, the galaxy as a whole would hate and resent him-there's no denying. Their reaction to learning Leia and Luke were his children in Bloodline proves this, and him just suddenly saying "sorry about that, but I'm good again now" wouldn't change that..

 

This is why, in the OP, I assumed the redeemed Anakin Skywalker would work to help the Rebels... not simply show up and say "I'm redeemed." Darth Vader joining the Rebels would be great for Rebels looking to convert Imperials over to their cause. The Rebels could grant him amnesty for his turn, and valuable intelligence and bring so many over to their side, shortening the length of the war and saving many lives (as well as killing the Emperor himself).

By still being alive, his legacy wouldn't yet be cemented, like it has been by the time of TFA for 30 years (with not many knowing about the redemption part).

Besides hunting the Jedi, and saving Palpatine from Mace Windu... Vader didn't really do anything of his own initiative, just did his duty to keep order by crushing rebels and taking out incompetent officers, though he was guilty of torture of at least Han and Leia. So Vader's true evil was basically committed against his family and the Jedi (who forgive him). For a real-life analogy... Paul of Tarsus persecuted, tortured and killed the early Christians... then converted by miracle, became one of their leaders, and wrote most of the New Testament.