What if Mace had let Anakin come with him to arrest Palps?

What do you think the scenario in Palpatine's office would have been then? Part of him getting ANakin to turn was playing the role of a helpless victim before a tyrannical Mace, begging for his life. Anankin had no idea what happened before he walked in the room (did he even notice the 3 jedi carcasses on the floor?). If Ankin had been one of the Jedi coming to arrest Palps would Palps still leap through the air like the Tazmanian Devil and go on his light saber rampage? He wouldnt have looked weak at all in Anakin's eyes then. Would Anakin have tried to fight him alongside the others? Would Paplatine have held back on Anakin trying to avoid killig him? Would the combo of Skywalker/Windu have been too much for Sidious, with one of them killing him? Would Sidious in the middle of fighting still find a way to get Anakin to turn on Mace?

 

I personnally think Palpatine would still have went made with the Lightsaber, but wouldn't really slash at Anakin; instead giving him slow, small blocks as too make Mace make it look like anakin was still on his side, however i think the same would have still happened Anakin would still be alive, and then when Mace did subdue him, Anakin would feel he needed him and probably would have still cut off his arm. IMO.

 

It'd still turn out the same. Anakin only does what he does when Mace says that he's going to kill Palpatine. He knows that Palpatine can fight and is strong. Palpatine needs Anakin to realize that the Jedi are corrupt and need to be taken out. So long as Anakin believes that Palpatine can save Padme, as long as he lives, then everything will turn up roses.

 

Something to consider may be that Palps may have turned himself in and denying his Sithness, causing furthur distrust towards Anakin from Mace. Mace said it himself that when he had Sids/Palps at saberpoint that he had control of the senate/court system. Palps would be a free man in no time. This would have given Anakin more time to stew over his predicament and make him just as easy to turn.

 

Oh you beat me to it! I was going to say that Palpatine would have made himself look like the helpless victim that was being arrested, instead of being killed. He might have let Mace take him away, and then prove to the Senate he wasn't a Sith. Then that would have scored him some extra points with his whole "kill all the Jedi" campaign.

 

intersetin

 

He needs Anakin to believe that the Jedi are too corrupt to follow Republic law and proceedure. That they are trying to take over. So sparking a fight in front of Anakin and getting the Jedi to try and kill him, rather than arresting him, will make his case against them.


"You almost come a second too late. You're rushing over to make sure that nothing happens-but your anticipation is that they're going to hurt each other. When the lightning starts things are going from bad to worse from your point of view. And when Mace is going to kill him, you have to act.

Try and increase how uncomfortable you feel as the shot goes on. Try to think back on the Darth Plagueis story-run that through your head. Take it one step further: you realize that by telling the Jedi about Palpatine being a Sith that Padme is going to die. Basically, you just killed her."

--George Lucas To Hayden Christensen, The Making Of ROTS.

The Jedi Master is winning when Anakin arrives, but Palpatine, as the scene has been rethought, now seizes the occasion to exaggerate his weakness.

--The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; Page 204

"(Palpatine is now laying down) But this part where he pretends to lose his power and become weak is something that I added later. Cause this moved the point where Anakin turned to this moment right here."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

"Mace was going to do the right thing by arresting him, but after Palpatine does the lightning, he changes his mind."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 204.


"Ok, well this sequence always started out with Mace, uh, overpowering Palpatine and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his Lightsaber. It always was that Anakin cut the Lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later cause this is it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here and you can see that he?s now that it's very clear that he?s, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

"It made a lot more sense to have him stay loyal to the Jedi which meant later on in this scene with the fight with Mace, we re-did that scene and at first there wasn?t the part where the emperor gives up, he goes - 'You got me! You got me!'. It was basically the scene without that where it gets more intense and Anakin finally breaks down and saves him, but it didn?t have the same feeling as that pause in there where you think?and it makes the emperor a lot more slimy, it's really fun. it?s a dramatic thing to deal with."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

"He didn't realize Palpatine was going to kill him (Mace). So up to that point he was trying to do the right thing but now he realizing that with Mace dead he?s crossed over the line and he sorta succumbs and says 'Yes, I?ll do anything you ask so you can allow me to keep my wife alive.' Then he (Sidious) says 'Ok I?ll do that but now you have to go and kill all the Jedi. Leave none alive or they will come back and get us - even the kids.'"

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

In the original scene, Anakin watches the whole fight and interferes when Mace moves in for the kill. So no matter what, Anakin will attack the Jedi if he thinks that they are too far corrupt to listen to reason. Mace will arrest Palpatine, but he can be goaded into going too far. Thus setting off a chain reaction. If he leaves it to the Senate, it won't work. He needs proof of their betrayal to Anakin. Their own selfishness. Etc.

 

I believe this one very much. No more needed to say!

 

I think it would have turned out the same as well. Sids was wonderful at adapting to the situations he was dealt.

HOWEVER...........

Fantasy: Anakin slips in behind Mace and the others and sees each get dealt with quickly. He realizes finally that it has all been a lie from Palps. Mace gets knocked to the side. Then you have Anakin and Sidious one-on-one. (Now, I know that Sids is still stronger than Anakin at this time, but this is a fantasy.) Anakin and Sids have an amazing sword duel and Anakin defeats Sids by chopping off both his arms. He arrests him alive because without his hands and arms, he is too weak to be a threat to the Jedi if left alive. That would have been awesome to see.

 

I dunno about that. Sidious is so strong in the dark side that I really doubt that losing his hands would be enough to keep him down. It would be a shock to him initially, as it was for everyone else with a severed hand, but Sidious was too powerful and would have made up for the loss in other ways if he had been allowed to live. Anakin would have had to kill Sids if it had turned out that way.

At any rate, there was no way all three of them were leaving that office alive. If Anakin had let himself realize the lie, he would have killed Sids on the spot and fulfilled the prophecy. However, he was too blinded by empty promises and too dumb to think about the consequences. Mace didn't have a chance.

 

He would have killed all of them except Mace and Anakin and the ending would be the same, Palps the whole would have been talking alot.

 

Indeed. Anakin already knew that Palpatine was NOT weak. When he went to tell Mace that he was a Sith Lord he told Mace that "The Chancellor is very powerful, you will need me." This was not just a trick on Anakin's part to try to get Mace to take him along. He KNEW that Palpatine was very powerful.

I really liked how the book handled this part of the Novel better. On Film, Anakin was pretty matter-of-fact when telling Mace about Palpatine. "Yeah Mace, Palpatine is a Sith Lord." "A SITH LORD? Are you sure" "Yes" "Well, you are staying here, if you are right you will have gained my trust."

What? Why would he say this? What would make him not trust him?

The book shows Anakin as very tormented by this revalation. He is ghost white, can't speak, can barely stand, and is obviously confused. It makes Mace not trusting him a bit more believeable.

Anyway, I can't see things going too much differently in the arrest scene had Anakin come with. Perhaps Palpatine wouldn't have said "I am the Senate" and instead talked more of the Jedi being traitors. The first three Jedi would have fallen quickly leaving Mace, Sidious, and an Anakin who wasn't into the fight whole heartedly. I think the most likely outcome would have been an actual Mace/Anakin Duel, leading to Palpatine intervening and Mace dying.

Carnage

 

Palpatine is so agile with (a) a lightbabre and (b) his mind, that he would've been able to orchestrate much the same situation that eventuated anyway - him pleading for mercy while Mace and Anakin argued over what was to be done with him.

 

The rest of what's said.

MACE WINDU: "For your own good, stay out of this affair. I sense a great deal of confusion in you, young Skywalker. There is much fear that clouds your judgment."

He can tell that Anakin's afraid and that fear might prompt him to do something irrationally. Which is does anyway. Anakin's not thinking straight and is going off of his fear, rather than being clear and level headed.

 

Darth Sinister, I second what you say here.
I still don't understand why it seems so many people still don't understand the primary story of Star Wars now that all six movies are out.
And I don't really understand how they can't either fathom or accept that Anakin is a troubled individual... perhaps, as others have said, it's just their love and sympathy for Anakin, so much so that they become as emotionally driven and mentally clouded as Anakin.... Mace Windu was basically the only one to sense the plot to kill the Jedi, and was right in wanting Anakin away during the arrest, but seems many don't want to accept that. It's all there in the movies, and long before these prequels came out, we already knew how the story ended....

 

I can fathom that Anakin is a troubled individual, I just can't fathom how anyone can saw that the Mace Windu/Anakin scene where he reveals Palpatine to be the Sith Lord actively conveys this. I love the portrayal of both of the characters throughout the rest of the movie. When Anakin kills the Tuskens, he clearly has an emotional response. When Anakin buries his mom, he is angry with himself and Obi-Wan. When he starts to dream that Padme is going to die he gets visibly frightened. When he is put on the council and not made a master, he has a slight outburst. When they face Dooku for the first time, he emotionally and recklessly charges him. When he kills the CIS leaders, he cries. When Palpatine reveals himself, he gets very angry. When he helps Palpatine kill Mace, he cannot believe what he has done. When he tells Mace that Palpatine is the Sith Lord he comes in and says "The chancellor won't give up his powers. He's a Sith Lord. Yup, the one we've been looking for." No hint of any emotion whatsoever. I just don't like the particular dialog. Anakin has some emotional problems. One would think that this would be one of the cases where this surfaces...

Carnage

 

Given the hatred and animosity that Mace Windu has had throughout the whole PT. For him to take Anakin to arrest Palpatine would have changed everything. The casualties would have been lower. Only one Jedi getting killed in his office. Anakin would have seen the truth of the matter. And sided with the Jedi. Palpatine would have said something like "They don't trust you as I do." Anakin seeing that by being brought along the trust that the Jedi, Windu especially, has in him amputates Palpatine's lightsaber hand. Palpatine says
"If you will not be my apprentice. You will be destroyed."
And Palpatine is killed by Windu when he attacks Anakin with Force Lightening.
Yoda searches with Anakin for the truth about his dreams. And they find no trace of the nightmares. Realising the truth Anakin apologizes to the council and is granted the rank of Master. Having overcome this trial. Padme gives birth to twins. Luke and Leia grow up to be a great Jedi, and a great Diplomat respectivly. Although one with extra skills.

 

Anakin's in shock, so I'm not really surprised that he's doesn't fight Mace's decision right there. I mean his entire world just came crashing down. His father figure is the source of all evil, but yet he is supposedly the only one would can save the life of his forbidden wife and possibly their child.

He's torn, teetering on the edge of doing what's right for the Galaxy or right for himself. I don't think anyone can much argue that if Obi-Wan or Yoda were there instead of Mace, that Anakin most likely wouldn't have turned at that moment, perhaps never, it's hard to say. But I do think it's very possible that if Mace was more compassionate towards Anakin, actally did trust him and wanted him to come along with the other Masters, that Anakin would have, at least for the time being, sided with the Jedi instead of Palps. He would have felt an integral and important part of the group, which is what he's always wanted. He may have seen Paplatine attack them, which would side him even more with the Jedi. He's in a very precarious position. Who knows maybe Palpatine would say something in front of the other Jedi about saving Padme's life, which would shock them and further alienate Anakin... I don't know. Palpatine is very clever. But I do think there was more of a chance to keep Anakin from turning, if Mace had just shown a little faith in him.

 

right, am I reading the replies right?

how on Earth (Coruscant) would it have been of the same situation if Anakin was there???

A. Palpatine needed to convince Anakin that it was the Jedi who were the attackers, taking out his lightsaber and whooping the Jedi's ass isn't what he wants Anakin to see. Once Anakin see's how dangerous he is, obviously he is going to side with Mace. Anakin may be slow and thick, but he isn't that unintelligent.


B. how on Earth (Coruscant) could Palpatine go toe to toe with Anakin AND Mace AT THE SAME TIME???

i think that he would of went with them peacefully and convince the senate the Jedi were traitors.

 

I actually think it would of turned out diffirently Anakin would of realized Holy **** he just took out three jedi, Anakin would of noticed that Palpatine is a bad guy.

 

you could of just quoted my post you know

 

But I do think there was more of a chance to keep Anakin from turning, if Mace had just shown a little faith in him.



I seriously doubt it.

Mace did what he was supposed to do, and had Anakin done what HE was supposed to do there wouldnt have been an empire and Sidious would be dead.

People looooove taking the blame off of Anakin and applying it to other people (as that higlighted statement proves).

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way Mace handled the situation, and had Anakin been there he would have made the same choice, had Obi-Wan been there instead of Mace he would have made the same choice, had Yoda been there instead of Mace he would have still made the same choice.

Now I used to think that maybe if Obi was there he could have made a difference, but I dont think so anymore.
First of all Obi-Wan wouldnt have lasted too much longer than the posse, and even if he did I can see Sidious standing over Obi-Wan when Anakin walks in telling him to strike down Kenobi and join the darkside, telling him that "the power of the darkside" is the reason why he was able to overwhelm four jedi masters and that same power will save his wife.

There was nothing that was going to stop this clown from turning unless he, himself decides to, as Yoda says, "let go and accept the death" and I dont think he was willing to do that. And he was so determined, headstrong and greedy that he confused himself, Palpatine played off of that confusion and offered him, what he thought would be peace of mind and ultimate power.

The jedi dont offer that. The entire jedi philosophy is wrong in Anakin's mind, so someone else being there wouldnt have mattered. Now the scene might have played out differently but ultimately he still turns no matter what.

Everyone needs to stop blaming other people for Anakin's dumb choices.

 

r8hitman

 

i think that he would of went with them peacefully and convince the senate the Jedi were traitors.






Yep, probably. It fits in with Palps always having a winning hand no matter what happens. If he had been arrested, the trial in the Senate wouldnt have been Palps vs Republic. Instead, Palps would have turned it into Republic vs Jedi, and the Jedi would have lost there.

 

"Everyone needs to stop blaming other people for Anakin's dumb choices."

---

Well, part of AnaVader's decision making, is the direct result of his training. If a [b]wiser[/b], and [b]more experienced[/b] Jedi served as his Master, then [i][b]perhaps[/b][/i] things would have been different...

In any case, Kenobi admitted his failures.

Skywalker regretted his choices...

It all worked out when Sidious got the [i]shaft[/i] in the end.