PT What if Qui-Gon had survived and trained Anakin?

Maybe Obi-Wan got into that chamber first, and Maul killed him, and then Qui-Gon disposed of Maul. Or maybe they managed to kill the Sith and both survived. Either way, Qui-Gon lives, and trains Anakin.

Do you think he would have turned out better? Do you think he'd have turned out different?

Do you think he'd have turned out worse, if that's even possible?

Would he have turned to the Dark Side or not? Would he have fallen in love with Padme and secretly married her? How would things have gone down with his mother?

What are your thoughts on this?

 

I'd like to think that things would be better but I don't know.

 

I don't think anything would change at all.

 

I'd think Qui-Gon would be more helpful with matters relating to Shmi.

 

Dooku claims in AoTC that Qui-Gon would have joined him and the Separatists. While that's Dooku saying this - so, suspicious - it's an interesting possibility.

 

Interesting indeed. I'd hope that we get previous Qui-Gon and Dooku interaction before TPM.

 

From what I remember reading the novelization of TPM. Anakin was admiring Maul and his fighting ability in the theed hanger even when he shouldnt. Jinn could at best fight Maul to a stalemate and same for Kenobi, Maul was just a superior combatant. If Anakin was destined to become Darth Vader, then he would become Darth Vader, there is no altering the destiny or changing fate it is the will of the Force.

 

I don't think Dooku did outright and I find it pretty feasible.

FS:I didn't find Qui-Gon in the least bit compassionate. Find it interesting you think he'd be able to help regarding Shimi given it was he that refused to help her to begin with. None of the Jedi are. They are too afraid of emotion.

 

I think he would have helped with the dreams in AOTC.
Been awhile since I've seen TPM so I'll have to get back with on that.

 

Qui-Gon was a more experienced master, and quite obviously understood Anakin better than Obi-Wan ever did. I think it's indisputable that things would have turned out better. Whether that means that all the horrible things that happened could have been prevented is an unanswerable question.

I think there's a pretty good possibility that Qui-Gon would have become his own brand of political dissident. But Obi-Wan was right; he would never have joined Dooku.

 

I agree with you, specially since he met shmi

 

Any chance you have a link to that?

 

Qui-Gon would have been far less tolerant of Anakin's **** than Obi-Wan was. Look how he laid the smackdown on his mostly-deferential, twenty-five year old, close-to-knighthood apprentice. If Anakin had tried the shameless insubordination he gave Obi-Wan in AotC, Qui-Gon would have turned the kid over his knee and spanked him. Yeah, in front of Padmé, Typho and Jar Jar. Okay, maybe not literally, but still.

He would have probably taken the dreams about Shmi more seriously. There's also the fact that Anakin would have been more open to confiding in him rather than blowing him off / pushing buttons as he did with Obi-Wan (just try to imagine him saying "I'd much rather dream about Padmé" to Qui-Gon). But even so, I'm not sure he would have allowed Anakin to gallivanting off to Tatooine. He had made clear, in TPM, that being a Jedi involves great sacrifice, so it's clear that he took that seriously, not as something to be put aside if it got too painful.

As far as Padmé was concerned, I don't think Qui-Gon would've made a blind bit of difference. Possibly, he would have put his foot down and refused to let Anakin have the solo task of protecting her, but I don't think those few days unchaperoned on Naboo made much difference to Anakin's feelings or how the romance would pan out, in the greater scheme of things. Sooner or later, Padmé would have found an excuse to give in to her feelings: Anakin was a severe blind spot for her.

Anakin might have had less *need* for Palpatine had Qui-Gon been his Master, but he would have *enjoyed* the flattery not any less. So I still see their relationship developing the way it would with Qui-Gon dead. And really, I don't think Anakin needed Palpatine to be seduced by the Dark Side. He did that quite well all on his own on Tatooine, light-decades away from Palpatine. It was his fear and possessiveness, his own choices, his "anger and lust for power" which did him in, more than Palpatine's influence.

I'm almost glad Qui-Gon didn't live to see the war. I think everything about it would have horrified him. I doubt he would join Dooku, but then again, I'm convinced Dooku would not have joined the Sith had Qui-Gon lived. Qui-Gon would probably have refused to have anything to do with the fighting. Based on his reaction to Padmé's plan in TPM, he's clearly very uneasy with using large-scale violence even to achieve noble goals. He's a diplomat through and through. Leads me wonder if Anakin would have levelled the same accusation at him as he did at Padmé.

Qui-Gon would have been a better Master for Anakin, certainly. But I don't think it was any specific failure on Obi-Wan's part that led to Anakin's fall, so it would have made little difference, ultimately.

 

IMO Anakin would not have turned to the dark side under Qui Gon's wing. Qui Gon has a more lax attitude to the Jedi rules, and his would be less rules bound, it also seems ( to me) that Anakin holds Qui Gon in awe and would not be so argumentative and resentful of him. Anakin feels a gratitude to Qui Gon for rescuing him, not the case with Obi Wan and also seems to need an older father figure. Obi Wan, young as he is cannot be a father figure, at best he grows into an older brother, with the competition that implies. Qui Gon however, being older is more of a father figure. Anakin respects Palpatine, due to his age, wisdom, and understanding it seems and its likely he would have the same close ( or closer) bond with Qui Gon. Anakin has a habit of forming attachments and would have become devoted to Qui Gon, but also inspired. I imagine he would have had the trust to talk to Qui Gon ( himself often at odds with the council) about his issues with them in a way he never would with Obi Wan ( Who, when he knows Anakins relationship with the council is at breaking point and arguably should side more strongly with Anakin manages to look guilty and say " the council is asking you" ).

 

I agree that Anakin would have far more respect for Qui-Gon and thence less "wish/need/desire" for a father figure in Palps.

But.

That presupposes so many other changes in the story we know. No trauma of losing Qui-Gon, worrying about his future, becoming the student of a grieving Obi-Wan. Emotionally, so many changes that one could not just point to "aha, he's saved by Qui-Gon living."

Then, as pointed out above a few posts, when would - if he would - would Qui-Gon revert back to the demanding Jedi master - in a year or two? Several years? Never? Qui-Gon didn't allow Obi-Wan much flippancy (a/k/a deviation from "deferential padawan") so would he so change his teaching style once Anakin was formally his padawan? When he thought Anakin had outgrown his "boyishness" and should be behave "like a proper padawan"?

Qui-Gon had his moments of snappishment and rudeness - he wasn't this paragon of gentle understanding all the time, even if most of the time.

 

Qui-Gon's rudeness was largely when Obi Wan argued with him about the "living Force" He was generally fine with Kenobi but wanted him to lighten up, though he admitted he felt that Kenobi was a very wise man. The point is that not only is he older but he has an ability to command respect. Obviously there would be no trauma from losing Qui Gon ( kinda the point of the thread methinks) Obviously he would have Anakin be a "proper" padawan. but would mould him more sucessfully into such, and would also show him that the council was not the be all and end all in the quest for greater knowledge of the force. ( something Anakin wanted and note that Qui Gon was the one who found his way back from death first, so he must have been able to teach something)

Anyways pretty sure that if Anakin said that he was worried about the death of someone close due to a vision Qui-Jon would be more helpful ( occurs to me that Yoda might assume that Obi Wan was the subject of the vision, given what he knows and the general circumstance, which is callous in itself)

 

Qui-Gon was rude to Jar Jar (I know, I know) and borderline taunting Padme on Naboo. He was no paragon of virtue - he was, in fact, entirely human. Not this idealized man/Jedi many think of him as.

He wasn't very understanding of Obi-Wan, at times, shutting him down - again, behaving very human, not in this idealistic manner some ascribe to him.

None of the above examples make Qui-Gon bad, understand, it just means he's capable of behaving like any other human being. Which means he wouldn't be this perfect master/role model for Anakin, either. Now, what he does have to offer (maturity, experience, etc.) might be enough, I grant you. Might.

I'd love to see how he would have dealt with Anakin's ego/arrogance/insecurity masquerading as arrogance (whatever you call it - everyone sees it differently). Would he have encouraged such behavior? Found a way to deal with it (he was raised a Jedi, too, so did he have the extra tools that everyone thinks the Jedi lacked)? Smacked it down?

By the time of Anakin's vision, I'm not sure how much difference it would make if it was Obi-Wan's not realizing it was a vision, or Qui-Gon "dealing with it." The really pertinent years, I feel, are the ones we don't see and all that any of us can do is speculate.

 

I think he would probably jump more quickly to the conclusion that they are premonitions instead of mere dreams, but I don't think his advice would be any different from Yoda. The problem and solution are the same: learning to let go.

 

I actually think people are being too quick to assume that Qui-Gon would have tried to put Anakin in his place, as he did Obi-Wan, or stopped Anakin from going to save Shmi.

"Trust you feelings."

He was far from perfect, but it was his adherence to the living force that gave Qui-Gon his understanding of Anakin, and likely allowed him to 'ascend' (so to speak). He shut down Obi-Wan not for agreeing with the council, but for showing disrespect, with his 'if you were better behaved you would be one of them'. That wasn't his place.

I think his own way of bending the rules, and the understanding he had of Anakin, might (possibly) have allowed him to understand that Anakin had to be handled different to the other padawans, and that is one of the areas the Jedi failed him most. Sure, he would have been strict when needed (the last thing Anakin needed was free reign), but it would also have been tempered by open affection, while Obi-Wan was always reserved and formal as we see in Episode 2 (the facade of a young man trying to act the wise elder.)

His respect for what Anakin was, and again his empathy and attune net to the living force, may have also made him take Anakin's dreams seriously, and he might have found a way to do something in the spirit of being a Jedi, if not within the rules. Like gone himself, and left Anakin behind. He would certainly have wondered why the force was giving Anakin visions that he shouldn't heed. A blind spot the Jedi never noted.

Of course, there would have been other issues with Qui-Gon training him. Even more arrogance for a start, as Qui-Gon himself might have overlooked much for the chosen one.