Full Series What if Sidious sent Dooku to defeat Maul?

Although the Sidious duel was amazing, what if Sidious had sent Dooku to kill Savage and defeat Maul instead? What if the current and former apprentices were to clash in battle?

Would you like this, and how do you think it would go?

I can imagine a scenario like this:

Sidious: "Lord Tyrannus, a dark power has emerged, one who is attempting to create an empire in the underworld. If left unchecked, he will pose a serious threat in the future."

Dooku: "Yes, my master, I have felt this disturbance in the Force. Who is this enigmatic figure?"

Sidious: "Your predecessor."

Dooku: "Darth Maul? But how could this be?"

Sidious: "That is of little importance now. The longer he remains alive, the stronger he grows in the dark side of the force. You will personally go to Mandalore and bring an end to his plans. Hold nothing back Lord Tyrannus. Do not let me think that I am choosing to keep the wrong apprentice."

Dooku: "As you wish."

 

Dooku serves a pretty important role in the Clone Wars though. He's a very different apprentice to Maul, who was little more than Sidious's hitman. Though TCW tried to show that Maul was taught the skills to assemble crime syndicates and think tactically, I think the task Sidious gave Dooku, being a charismatic voice of dissent to show the failings of the Republic and the Jedi Order, would have been a bit beyond Maul's abilities. So I think it would be too risky to send your current apprentice who's vital to your plans to take care of your former apprentice who has much less use. Besides, who would you trust more to take care of a sensitive matter like this? And he may find that Maul can serve some other purpose after all, so it's important to go along in person to assess the situation himself. Plus, curiosity may play a part in it. Sidious really believed he died on Naboo. Learning how he survived could be something worth finding out.

Tl;dr many reasons why Sidious would want to go himself

 

Dooku would beat Maul. Not enough experience. I think even Anakin finally got lucky in ROTS. Dooku > Maul.

 

Maul alone? Maybe, however Maul AND Savage that wouldn't work out so well.

 

Well, Dooku did train Savage. And he knows that Force Lightning is particularly useful against him. I doubt Maul taught Savage how to block it.

 

I have not read the Maul comic, so I only vaguely know what happens. But doesn't Palpatine want to draw Talzin out? I'm guessing he wanted to soundly defeat Maul, to show him what he's up against and send Maul running to Talzin. Maul wasn't afraid of Dooku, and realistically, I think Dooku would have been defeated by both Savage and Maul. They did respectable against Sidious. They were both definitely out of their league, but they fared better than three members of the Jedi Council.

Also, Palpatine was grooming Dooku as an apprentice before Maul died. The stuff with Dooku and Sifo-Dyas ordering the clone army would have happened right around the time that Maul died, and Palpatine would have had to of had that plan in motion. I don't know if Dooku was outright a second apprentice at this point, but he was definitely working with the Sith, since he kills Sifo-Dyas and asks the Kaminoans to include the Order 66 chips in the clones. I think that like Anakin/Dooku, Dooku and Maul would have been pitted against each other at some point. Lucas' old explanation at one point was that Maul died unexpectedly and Dooku was just a convenient replacement, but under this new continuity, it's a little ambiguous to me, since he seemed like he was prepping Dooku to be his apprentice before Maul ever "died."

So when Maul turns up alive and well, I think that's inconvenient for a bunch of reasons.

1. I'm speculating that Sidious was getting ready to replace Maul with Dooku anyway and wanted Maul out of the picture.
2. Maul knows way too much about Palpatine and his real identity (which is why I think it's kind of stupid that Palpatine seems unconcerned about Maul's survival).
3. Palpatine controls the CIS and Republic, but now Maul is proving himself a worthy leader and creating a third faction that Palpatine doesn't control
4. Maul had Talzin as an ally.

So I think a lot of it was just arrogance. Sidious wanted to personally go and kill Savage and remove Maul from his base of power and humiliate him. But also I thought the idea from the comic (which I've not read) was that Palpatine wanted to draw out Talzin. So he really needed to get her attention or make Maul desperate enough to run to her for help. Maul feared Sidious, but I don't think he feared Dooku. So sending Dooku wouldn't have the same effect IMO. And while Savage and Maul were beaten by Palpatine, they still fared better than three Jedi Council members, and after Savage's death, Maul's outburst seemed to catch Sidious off guard for a moment. I really don't think that Dooku being able to defeat both of them was a certainty. By sending Dooku, Sidious risked losing his apprentice, IMO.

 

Never saw anything to suggest that Dooku was a groomed apprentice before even Maul fell, or that Maul was expendable. Maul in TCW if anything tells of the mistake Sidious made in forsaking his fallen apprentice, a mistake he would not repeat with Vader. Had Sidious instead chose to take back Maul, he wouldve been secured as they'd have the Shadow Collective, Republic and Separatists monopoly of untold power with no possibility of armed forces that would challenge the reign of the Sith. The lack of killing Maul and completely destroying the Jedi, its why there is a war without end following the Clone Wars and the Empire still faces resistance and later Sidious would need a younger and stronger apprentice in Luke. Maul was really his finest achievement as he trained Maul since a youngling and he is the perfect manifestation of a Sith, an yielding and unstoppable warrior able to envision grand designs and form armies . Maul was able to keep himself from dying, and within a short time after returning to "life" he caused a major disruption to Sidious plans, as he felt the darkside begin to shift towards Maul once he took Mandalore(and the 1,000 other systems which Mandalore influenced) and broke Kenobi's spirit thus cracking the lightside whom Kenobi was a champion representation of being the finest Jedi Knight of his time. It took Maul months to successfully build a vast Empire with human and material near unlimited resources that far exceeded both the Republic and Separatist where it took Palpatine/Sidious literately a lifetime as he was already middle and old age by the time he finally was able to kickoff his galactic civil war and take office. Maul wouldve destroyed Dooku in a duel of fates, its why they wisely kept him away from Maul and used Sidious as he's the head villain that cannot be defeated until ROTJ. Savage unleashed we already saw came very close to killing Dooku on-board his command ship had it not been for the combined no choice effort of Ventress and Dooku to keep him at bay which they barely managed as he kept coming each time more stronger than before.

SOD makes it clear Maul didnt fear Sidious, he was defiant in face of death and after torture and he threatened Sidious to his face and defied Sidious throughout the series. He clearly neither respected or feared Sidious at this point. Plus his Mandalorians followed Sidious shuttle to Stygeon, so it appeared anticipated his possible capture and may of only been feigning fear at the end of Lawless to deceive Sidious into believing he was at his mercy. Pain seems to only make Maul stronger and indifferent. Back in cave Spider Maul already knew that mercy was a lie and he already knew that Sidious would never grant mercy. In SOD Maul made a series of tactical and strategic moves knowing that Sidious allowed for a too easy escape from the prison as he and Dooku wanted the location of Talzin and the Shadow Collective bases , the former which they wanted to control themselves. Maul knew he was being followed immediately after the escape as Sidious & Dooku sent a Droid armada after him which was largely eaten up on Zanbarr where Maul led them into a trap, waited for all their forces to be deployed and committed to attacking the heavy fortified fortress and held his Gauntlet fighter bombers in reserve to destroy the droid army which did. Maul never revealed his true strength of his army, even by issue 4 he never used his secret fleet even while the Pykes and Black Sun were being routed and the invasion of Dathomir. He had some other use for them. Sidious apparently believed that Shadow Collective was her doing and that she was his true threat to his grand design, while it was Maul in actuality. Talzin simply healed his mind. Just as Talzin prophesied his great destiny to fulfull - she knew that Maul was more important and she refused his request for her to take his power as then she wouldve been strong enough to kill Dooku and Sidious. Sidious mistakenly underestimated Maul's initiative and resolve which nearly cost him Dooku. Talzin didnt think herself important enough, as Sidous erroneously did.

Lucas envisioned a long term game for Maul with his revival know being part of the grander saga. With the release of SOD, am pretty sure its still in the works, rather surmise he's behind some of the rebel groups in the galaxy. Plus he captured Grievous's fleet in issue 3 and can always use that army against the Empire.

 

Filoni states that Dooku and Maul were apprentices to him at the same time. It is my speculation based on that, that Dooku was being groomed to replace Maul, given the Rule of Two and that Dooku would have had to have been laying the ground work for Order 66, the Clone Army, and the CIS before Maul ever died. He seemed to be given all the trust and power, while Maul didn't do a whole lot but get sent on a mission to make Padme sign a treaty.

And then when Maul shows up alive, Sidious doesn't pit the two of them against each other to see who is better, as you kind of would expect him to do. Instead he taunts Maul that there can only be two and that he's been replaced. But he wants to keep Maul around to draw Talzin out. He doesn't seem at all interested in letting Maul be his apprentice again. His attitude towards Maul seems like one towards a tool that is no longer useful. Again, that's just my speculation and interpretation.

 

He didn't send Dooku, because Dooku would certainly lose to Maul and his brother, Sidious didn't want to lose his apprentice (yet).

 

Yea ok I know where you're coming from now as I'm reminded the Filoni piece. Guess its possible to some extent. But SOD established that Sidious was seeking knowledge from his ally Talzin at the time Maul was a young boy who was maybe around Anakin's age in TPM when Sidious discovered him(much like Jinn would Anakin in TPM). We dont know how many years Sidious was with Talzin prior to Sidious finding her son and choosing him instead of her. But its unlikely Plagueis was alive, however we don't really even know how he factors in as this character was never elaborated on in Lucas's canon or as of yet the new canon. In Star Wars Tarkin, Tarkin crosses paths with Dooku following the end of TPM and time leading up to AOTC where Tarkin guesses Dooku to have been a hidden ally of Palpatine's hidden agenda.

But there is no logic in believing Sidious would rather train a boy(unless one accepts he viewed Maul to be an Anakin like being) to be an actual Sith, if he had Dooku so very early on, nor does it explain Talzin still wouldve came before Dooku who was always reduced to last resort. Moreover at the end of TPM, Sidious already set his eyes on Anakin being his new apprentice with Dooku as convenient stand in.

I would say rather Filoni is attempting to more convey that one was an actual padawan(Maul) while the other was a pseudo-padawan/ ally. Which is basically same position Anakin filled in from AOTC-TCW-ROTS while he had Tyranus. Dooku's true fall seems to coincide with the time TPM ended as 10 years passed between movies(TPM and AOTC). During this time Sifo sanctioned the Clone army but his killed by the treacherous Dooku order to the Pykes who then assumes control and choose a new template in Jango Fett a Mandalorian who have a history of being anti-Jedi. And Dooku resigned shortly after TPM . Tarkin meets Dooku for the first time some 8 years after Dooku left the order as as a Seperatist leader. Seperatism didnt begin until after TPM, a decade later.


I think its far to hectic and difficult to imagine Plagueis, Sidous , Talzin , Maul and Dooku were all roaming around at the same time as Sith or Sith initiates and nobody knew nothing, including Maul. Even Ventress knew of Sidious. Maul is established as a very cerebral character, and not just the blunt instrument of TPM so that is a high intellectual deductive and intuitive mind. Maul already knew about the war, so he was filled in on the original plan. The Clones were sanctioned on Sifo's own initiative ten years before AOTC which was around TPM events. Sidious had no knowledge of Clone armies prior to Dooku betraying Sifo at some point and handing over this information for a new strategy. For all we know, Sidious and Maul wouldve used the Droids to invade the Republic with Maul acting as a Count Dooku/Grievous(as Dooku wasnt much of a military general) conscripted soldiers from across the Republic to fight the droids. Which later we see Stormtroopers being just this, conscripts.

We have the only rule of the Sith, there can only be two. If Sidious created an affront to the Order of Bane of selecting a new apprentice before the other was dead then he's in violation to Bane's order and its unknown how the darkside would react as Sith shrines and places of burial appear to resonate great influence in the world of the living(Star Wars: Tarkin)

Sidious taughted Maul with being replaced because thats what villains do, plus he has to prove he's the Master. He took great offense that Maul would dare take his own apprentice and he now viewed Maul in light of that and the darkside shifting towards another being(its why he had to fly there before all that he dismissed Maul's return)as a rival to his existence and place as reigning Sith Master. Maul didnt care about Dooku and viewed him as a fool that he'd would take pleasure in killing just cause he knows by prematurely killing his new apprentice it would greatly diminish Sidious's power. Master and Apprentice have symbiotic relationships. Both he and Talzin warn Dooku even that Sidious will soon replace Dooku, so Maul knew even Dooku was gonna be replaced as he was grooming another. In SOD the forshadowing view of Maul's legs about how Sidious discards broken apprentices alludes to Dooku's own loss of his appendages in ROTS and how he'll be of no further use. And it speaks also of Vader's downfall as once Vader loses his hand and in a position of Luke's mercy much like how Dooku was once in his. Now he's useless and wants Luke. Sidious betrayed Talzin as he pretended both of them would rule the galaxy, but he took her son Maul instead. So its along line of Sidious betraying his apprentices. Like McDiarmid said, Sidious is was just solidly evil and the dirtiest word in his vocabulary was 'friend'.

 

The Rule of Two doesn't seem to be strictly enforced, or is exploited via loopholes. The whole point to my understanding was that when there is more than one, they tend to gang up on each other. Yet, Dooku was allowed to have Ventress, and Vader has the Inquisitor. And while fans like to point out that this isn't in violation of the Rule of Two because "they aren't Sith," the same threat still remains and Palpatine knows it, or else he wouldn't have ordered Dooku to eliminate Ventress.Sith or not, Sidious still perceived the threat of Dooku and her teaming up.

I see it as a double standard, or "might makes right." Palpatine is stronger, so he can enforce the rules however he wants to, or be as unfair as he wants. Dooku takes Asajj as his "assassin" and if one day Palpatine wakes up and decides he doesn't like that arrangement, then he can order Dooku to kill her. But if Sidious was training both Dooku and Maul at the same time, then what exactly were they going to do about it? What power did Dooku have to tell Palpatine he has to give up the other apprentice? I'd imagine Palpatine's response would be something along the lines of "make me."

Even in the OT, Palpatine openly discusses turning Luke and leaves it in Vader's hands to capture Luke and bring Luke to him. Vader never objects or says it's in violation of the Rule of Two. And Palpatine speaks as though they'll work together to turn Luke, but then once it's clear that Luke has surpassed Vader, Palpatine's real quick to decide that Luke should kill Vader and take his place. All of a sudden the Rule of Two matters when it's convenient.

As for the time frame of Dooku leaving the Order, he may not have formally left the order until after the events of TPM, but it's implied that he had turned before he ever left. When he went to visit the Kaminoans with Sifo-Dyas, he had already taken the name Tyranus. The Kaminoans refer to Sifo-Dyas as having been a member of the Jedi Council, but he was not on the Council in TPM. So I'm guessing he died before the events of TPM (but how long before TPM, I don't know). I don't know if Tyranus visited the Kaminoans one time, or if they had a series of negotiations over a long period, or what. But deleting Kamino from the archive memory, and the murder of Sifo-Dyas both seemed to occur prior to TPM. And there's that one line in TCW about how Dooku "wanted to be Sifo-Dyas." That line was not elaborated on. And then when Sifo-Dyas shows up as a vision to Yoda, he is depicted with the yellow eyes. So it's possible that maybe Palpatine was initially more interested in Sifo-Dyas, but then Dooku killed him to gain favor with Palpatine? [speculation]

 

Guess all we know about the Sith of old that once there was many, they do not share power well and turned on eachother after they ran outve Jedi to kill, they're probably like deranged animals that if left with no food will eat even their own bodies . Bane kept the order to two, and they'd basically brood and plot, we don't really even know why it took them this long to take control of the Republic when all one had to do was run for office. But yea, plot convenience is an issue with the rule on toon and movies.

Sidious is many things, including what Maul calls him in SOD, the deceiver, so he's essentially a liar, cheat and hypocrite and all of those kinda things. In SOD it seems taking away an apprentice severely weakens the master, as it what gives him power , so having someone worship and fear you as basically an all powerful deity which is what Sith apprentices do, they're in constant fear and awe of the master's supposedly great powers. Once you eliminate fear from such power you render it powerless much like how Yoda would render the Bane apparition and the darkside Yoda apparition . Which is along the same line like what Jinn warned about giving power to that which you fear, and it will show itself to you and later on Luke took his weapons into the cave despite Yoda's warning so he basically created his own hell by giving it power to effect him. Sidious uses some witch craft ritual that takes advantage of the similar bond once shared between Yoda and Dooku, master and apprentice and it had something to do with Dooku's blood to reach and effect Yoda.


Guess one can argue its in their nature to destroy eachother but then it rather defeats the rule of Bane if you ask me. By creating a Sith acolyte order of the many that have all the training of a Jedi Knight or a Ventress/Opress style Assassin , would create again the problems of the pre-Bane Sith. Sidious's overconfidence is his greatest weakness though so he could be sealing his own doom by breaking the rule of two. So unsure why bother keeping this creation for it means nothing in the first place, Lucas and Filoni likely were adjusting storylines as they went along and trying to retrofit it into what the movies had already said to strange results.

If Sith live to very advanced age, the apprentice could die from any number of complications before its his time to take the mantle but even then he himself could be quite old. There seems to be a theme of having a younger and virile powerful apprentice serving the supposedly old and haggard master. If the master is wounded or in weakened old age state, they just become like feral animals and kill the master to assume alpha status. However even old masters are shown to be incredibly more powerful than even young warriors(Yoda, Sidious and Dooku) and even Sidious had to wait for Plagueis to fall asleep to kill him. So Sidous had to be in his 40's or 50's by the time he saw his opportunity and then had to train an apprentice of his own which takes a large amount of investment and resources as its basically being a drill instructor, scholarly tutor, and parent.


Sidious was portraying Sifo, so thats why he had those eyes from the way I saw it. No idea how he planned on fooling Yoda with those eyes though, but thats the writers/director. According to the old EU and how it played in TCW, it looked like Dooku believedthey'd turn Anakin together and form some new order of force warriors to replace the Jedi. We see this in children of the force and later with the Inquisitor so some parts of that plan were true. Vader shows some internal conflict with regards to Luke since ESB, but once Sidious becomes personally aware and partly involved(hologram in ESB) and takes an interest in the boy(by ROTJ), Vader no longer seeks to turn the boy on his own, and tries hiding his mixed feelings for his son from Sidious onboard the Death Star. Vader seem pretty complacent as if nothing more than the slave to his master's will, plus he's in bad shape as an aging Cyborg. He's a shell of former potential and cannot take on Sidious in combat in such a condition as the lightning kills him later on so Vader surmised a few bolts of that stuff would do him in, He needed to turn and train Luke and use him to help overthrow Sidious. Plus its possible Vader felt he owed Sidious his own life as Sidious did come and rescue him and told him in the fake story of him killing Padme so Vader seems to be trapped in a multifaceted state of emptiness, loneliness, horror, regret and some warped sense of loyalty which had previously displayed towards Palpatine since AOTC ect. I think the writers make the Sith overly sadistic and bi-polar, they're a mental mess and writers write them up as such but unsure if its own purpose ,lol.

I would think the rule of two is important as their has to be a significance to being an actual true Sith , something in their religion and discipline, where it has to be more than just a title. Maul looks down upon Dooku because he lacked loyalty to his former order and is not a true Sith, but a traitor and pretender in his eyes. There is a certain purity involved, alteast in the mindset which Maul was taught which couldve only came from Sith teachings passed down by Sidious. Sidious killing his own master in his sleep to assume the title, and discarding and/betraying his own apprentices seems to more illicit an image Sidious serves himself more than he does the Order of Bane. The whole children of the force to his army of eyes and ears and Inquisitors serve to protect him, even from beings like Vader and Maul who he fears could betray or kill him as they're potentially likely to even if following the Sith tradition like he did his own master and former apprentices. He like Plagueis fears losing power and also seeks the keys to immortality so there doesn't appear he would willingly want to lose his place.

 

The script dialogue with Dooku has him telling the exact time he's been using the darkside, 10 years which pretty much also coincides with Tarkin novel as that was the time Dooku stepped down and disappeared.

COUNT DOOKU
(continuing) I have spent the last ten years learning to use the power of the Dark Side. It gives me infinitely greater power.

http://www.geocities.ws/mrghoul_01/saberduel.html

 

Dooku failed in killing even of Ventress when Sidious ordered it. He failed in killing Savage afterwards. So how could he probably deal with both Maul and Savage combined while Maul taught his brother already how to defer force lightning with a lightsaber? Maybe with Grievous together Dooku would have had a chance. But I guess Sidious thought Maul was his apprentice and thus he deemed it a personal matter to deal with Maul after he defeated and evaded the Jedi sent to hunt the Sith-brothers down, several times.

Sidious also wanted to prevent Dooku from forming possible alliances with Maul and Savage against himself as he tried before with Obi-Wan and later with Ventress. Sidious didn't trust Dooku at all.

 

Sudooku

The conclusion would be ;

 

The writers did make the Sith a little too disloyal/prone to betrayal/etc. IMO, the OT (or even PT) never really depicted the Sith like that. In a game like The Old Republic, you have Sith masters pretty much taunting their apprentices about the prospect of the latter one day surpassing the master and killing them. Which is completely idiotic, when you have people that fear losing their power and are obsessed with control, but then teach their apprentices that they should strive to kill the master.

I mean, we see Palpatine pleased by the prospect of Vader surpassing him, but I don't for a second believe that Palpatine wanted Vader to kill him or replace him. Vader was merely a very powerful tool that Palpatine could exploit. The Tarkin novel states:

It doesn't really elaborate on what this means. But I'm guessing Vader is "the bait." That by having an exceptionally strong apprentice that becomes strong in the Dark Side, Palpatine can some how leech off that power and be the vessel(?) (again, it doesn't explain this idea).

I mean, there are six attempts at betrayal in the canon (at least that I can think of) by Sith apprentices.

1. Sidious kills Plagueis - we don't know much about this, with the de-canonization of the Plagueis novel. All we know is that Sidious claimed to have learned everything that Plagueis knew, then killed his master while Plagueis slept. We don't know if Plagueis provoked Sidious in some way, or if it was just ambition or what. But when Sidious then turns around and tells Anakin that only one person had achieved the power to cheat death, the implication is that Sidious in fact did not learn everything from Plagueis. Perhaps Sidious needed stronger "bait" to achieve that power(?)

2. Dooku plots against Sidious with Obi-Wan - I don't think this was a sincere offer. Dooku himself was a Sith and so obviously had not intention of destroying the Sith. I'm not even sure what Dooku was trying to accomplish here. He gave away quite a bit of information to a man that was going to be executed, but still withheld enough information such that Obi-Wan's escape didn't jeopardize Sidious' plans. It wasn't the "villain explains entire evil plot to condemned hero" cliche, but he still did incorporate elements of truth. I don't know if he really thought he could win Obi-Wan over, or if the guy just has a huge ego and couldn't help himself from putting on a show to mock Obi-Wan (the "They've gone too far, this is madness" just seems like sarcastic trolling).

3. Dooku plots against Sidious with Savage - Dooku never showed any kind of ambition to kill his master until Sidious accused him of disloyalty and ordered him to kill Asajj. He would occasionally use the idea of overthrowing Sidious and Asajj's ambition to be a Sith as motivational tools, but they never seemed sincere, IMO. Dooku's anger at getting abused by Sidious in that regard is likely what set off his revenge scheme, which never really went anywhere anyway.

4. Maul plots against Sidious - There is a Rule of Two and Maul had been replaced. There was no future for him unless he could triumph over Dooku and Palpatine. This isn't really a case of an apprentice overthrowing his master so much as it is Maul fighting for his very survival in a galaxy of Jedi and Sith that would rather see him dead as far as he knows.

5. Vader plots against Sidious with Padme - I feel like this is just grasping at straws to try to win Padme over. Even the way he pitches the idea to her doesn't make it sound like this was something he was planning, but rather just him trying to ease Padme's fears and tempt her.

6. Vader plots against Sidious with Luke - This one could go either way. In the ESB opening crawl, we know that Vader has been looking for Luke, even before Palpatine tells Vader about Luke as a threat. The Darth Vader comic also shows that Vader is looking for Luke and knows that Obi-Wan gave Luke his old lightsaber. He's obviously pursuing Luke for personal reasons without Palpatine's knowledge. However, in the films themselves, we see that Vader wants to test the carbonite chamber on Han, because he doesn't want "The Emperor's prize" to be damaged. And it's all well and good that he tells Luke that he can destroy the Emperor and that they can rule the Galaxy together, but had everything gone to plan, then Luke would have been frozen before that part of the conversation ever took place, and Luke would have been delivered to the Emperor. And in ROTJ, Vader never speaks a word regarding betrayal and, to the contrary, Vader insists that he must obey Palpatine and tells Luke that Palpatine is to be his new master. Thus I'm not sure if Vader seriously wanted to overthrow Palpatine, since he seemed all set to obey his master. Promises of ending the war and ruling the Galaxy together just again seemed like a change in tactics to tempt Luke and get him to voluntarily surrender, since the carbonite plan didn't exactly pan out.

Vader never struck me as disloyal. He was investigating Luke, without the Emperor's knowledge, but when Luke turned himself over to Vader, Vader handed him over to Palpatine, seemingly knowing that Palpatine was going to be Luke's master, and pretty much putting himself at Palpatine's mercy. Under the Rule of Two, there would have been no more room for Vader, and he would have had to have seen that. So either he thought he was going to die, or had faith that Palpatine was not going to enforce it.

And Dooku never seemed disloyal either. Sidious accused him of disloyalty and ordered him to kill Asajj, but IMO it seemed like Sidious was being paranoid. I'm sure if someone has served their lord faithfully and then all of a sudden gets accused of disloyalty and gets kicked around, that such behavior might breed disloyalty. But after the Dathomir arc, Dooku seemed to go back to obeying Sidious again without subterfuge. I'm not sure that he would have made any attempt to ally with Maul. I get the idea that the concept of Sith betrayal is overstated. And with such few Sith in canon, it's difficult to gauge if Palpatine is an "average" Sith. He might be especially ruthless/traitorous, even by Sith standards. He betrayed all three of his apprentices. And at least two of those apprentices only sought to turn on him in response to a betrayal, IMO.

 

It could proceed like this:

Savage to Maul in the throne-room: "Brother, I sense a presence, I didn't felt since ... Dooku?"

Dooku is entering pushing the two guards aside.

Maul: "You are Dooku, the Jedi-betrayer, are'nt you?"

Dooku: "Savage, you can make amends for your mistakes now by destroying this Nightbrother (points towards Maul), ... but ... keep him alive, you understand? Alive! For we still have other plans with him."

Maul (laughes): "I don't think that will be happening now. Really, Savage? I don't have to remember you, where your true loyalties lie."

Savage: "To you, my brother."

Then the brothers ignite their light-sabers and finish off Dooku.

 

As in, a carbon copy of the same scene in Witches of the Mist?

 

Yesss, and for that reason, Sidious did not sent Dooku

 

Dooku would have died at the hands of Maul and Savage, and even if he engaged Maul alone it would have been a difficult fight. If Talzin jumped into the mix - its over. Sidious was playing chess, and knew he couldn't sacrifice this pawn yet. Sidious had to amass an invasion force to push Maul back, and he was still able to escape by the power of the Great Mother.

 

Well in Darth Maul: Son Of Dathomir Sidious does and Dooku gets captured!

 

Maybe Sidious was afraid that Dooku and Maul would unite against him. If Sidious handles the Opress brothers himself, Dooku can't recruit them.

 

I always thought that this was sort of what should have happened. Sidious pits Maul and Dooku against each other, to ensure he has the most powerful apprentice.

I actually think that Maul would do just fine as the leader of the Separatists. He wouldn't have worked to start the war, but one it's in full swing, he'd be an effective warlord. They rallied behind Grievous, for goodness sake.

I'd say that Maul and Savage would have the best chance of winning that fight, but it's hard to say for sure.

 

I wonder if the next time we see maul he will be able to preform force Lightning.