What it really means to be SITH. what do we really know of SITH teachings?

ok - so my point is what actually is the Sith doctrine?
what do they teach?
what is it that truly makes you a sith?

let me be more specific...
we all know what the Jedi doctirne is and has been.
there are tons of sources as to what the Jedi's role in the gffa has been over the millenia.
we know what they have stood for and many of their actual rules.

this has been made clear in actual testimony in the KotoR games, the novels, the comics, the RPG's, and of course -- the movies.

the Jedi philosophy has been enumerated by many numerous characters from vodo-siosk baas [sp?] / odan urr etc in the comics, various different characters in the games like atris / jolee bindo / kreia / etc, yoda / mace / dooku / obi-wan / dooku in the movies / and mostly luke in the novels - but also characters like vergere.

and these philosphies and beliefs and lessons have been explicitly stated.

on to the Sith.
what do we know?

they wield the dark side and hate jedi.
we know revan and malak's views, atris and kreia's views and ideals from the games.
we know naga sadow and freedon nadd's and exar kun's ideals from the comics.

but it is rarely explicitly stated.

what do i know of that is?

well, what you learn in the sith academy on korriban is god info...
"...through power i break my bonds..." or some such stuff.
we know a lot of palpatines ideals from the addedum's to Dark Empire.
and we know there are mnay sith holocrons.
we get The Rule of 2 - pretty easy concept - and more of Bane's ideals from that novel.

but what does one actually study and claim they now have Sith knowledge?
what exactly is Sith knowledege?
is it what Revan went off in search of?
is it what Atris hears in her holocron chamber that only Nihilus seems to understand?
is it reading palpatine writes re: force storms and stuff?

other than hating the jedi - and using the force in anger and aggression - what are Sith specific teachings?
how does one graduate from the Sith University with a Masters Degree or PhD?
what is it that really flips the switch from dark jedi to Sith?
is it more or less distorting the "Good" ways of using the force and turning it to be at your command?

just about every religion we have has an origin and credo - and the jedi do too. but the sith simply want to rule.
hard to fill 100's of holocrons with ranting and raving about how to rule a galaxy / throw force lightning / make force beasts / etc.

or am i looking too hard for something that isnt there - and really all the sith are is the antithesis of the jedi?

i hope this post even makes any sense.
i am not sure if i even know exactly how to phrase my discussion.

 

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
?The Sith Code

They think the Jedi are afraid to use the power necessary to bring peace and order to the galaxy. They believe that the STRONG should rule over the weak, power being central to their philosophy, since in nature there is "survival of the fittest" it should apply to sentients too. They think you should never limit yourself to what may help you.

They want the galaxy to transform into their vision, believing their way is the best way to govern. They think rule by the people, the weaker masses, is inefficient and foolish.

They equate all love with attachment, which can lead to uncontrollable anger or mercy, and think either one is a WEAKNESS, so they discourage love. But their way of letting go is to sacrifice, even if it isn't theirs to sacrifice.

They think inwards, only about themselves. They think strife and competition brings progress that advances society forward, and harmony only leads to stagnation and balance.

They believe passion empowers themselves better than calmness or tranquility, and are impatient with gaining power.

The Dark Side is addictive, and causes the user to transform into serving the Dark Side's will, thinking it's their own. They think the Jedi fear this transformation into enlightened beings on a higher plane of existence, with superior wisdom and power.

They thinks the Force is a weapon, used only to empower the Force's chosen, that the Force-sensitive were meant by the Force to rule, not serve. They are the only worthy ones, by destiny.

They believe only this life, the present, counts, because in the end you become one with the Force and lose the self. So they want to make a difference while they can. They think the ends justify the means, to realize their grand vision of a better galaxy they disregard msot individual lives. It is also why many seek immortality.

 

Take everything you know about the Jedi and flip it to its opposite. That's the Sith. That's the entire idea.

 

What do the Sith teach?

It's all about you.



Really, that's all there is to it. It's all about you. Morality, restraint, anything other than power -- it's for the weak. The fools. You're better than that. You deserve it all. Take it all. Don't limit yourself. Grab everything you can and enjoy the hell out of it. That's the fundamental core of being a Sith. Everything else is just window dressing.

 

Yep thats it, there is no deeper meaning Jimmy.

Revan Was just a jumped up Dark Jedi, As Was Kreia. While they wore sith Trappings, and arbitrarily followed the code they didnt really believe in it and in the end both had their own Goals.

Basicly they are aberations in the sith. any Jedi that ever joind up thinking their is some deeper meaning all found out its all for naut.

Their is no Greater meaning, no Power to create order. Its all and only about self gratification.

 

That's certainly Lumiya's view - or at least that's what she tells Jacen - but I don't think that's typical.

 

Indeed; Revan's Sith even stated that love could be quite useful, as long as it doesn't lead to mercy.

 

Yeah. The Jedi said no to love and passion. The Sith saw that as denying basic humanity.

 

Well, that's pretty much the conclusion that Luke came to after immersing himself in the teaching of arguably the greatest Sith of all time, Darth Sidious. Of course, if you don't have the endnotes to Dark Empire then you are missing that little bit.

The Sith teachings are truly empty.

 

Being Sith means gaining dominion over others.

"You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species? finally, the Galaxy itself."

What good is absolute power when there is no-one to rule over?

 

What are you talking about?

 

What the topic asks for, Sith Teachings.

"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you?"
¯Darth Plageuis

To be a Sith Lord, one must devote themselves to the idea of dominion in order to gain more power.

"Do you feel the hate?? It is the source of your strength. You still hate me. No matter. Today you have delivered yourself into my hands. I have the power of life and death over you, Maul. Someday, you will hold that power over another. It is the honor of the Sith. You will devote yourself to the idea of domination."
¯Darth Sidious

 

If you really wanna delve into the Sith teachings, the Darth Bane novel is the book for you.

 

Yeah, instead they believed love was a lie. A genetic and horomone created fiction.

Lust exists and control.

 

So what I'm getting from all this is that the Sith only believed in induldging themselves and control of others. Interesting....but shouldn't they know that's eary impossible how can you have control over everything and induldge yourself at the same time. More proof that the Sith teachings are very flawed.

 

All true. I was just wondering what you said about "what good is power if there's no one to rule over?" No one was saying the Sith wanted power to destroy all life.

Malak and Revan's Sith don't seem to agree with that. I think the Sith are generally more laissez faire with this sort of thing. Love? It's personal. Essentially the Sith don't seem to care about anything that's not holding you back. If love's making a Sith Lord weak it's not anyone else's problem but his, and he'll probably pay dearly for it.

 

Malak and Revan's Sith are fairly early into the Dark Side of the Force. Ultimately, they also are trying to play on the heart strings of those they wish to corrupt. In the end, love isn't possible for a Sith because they believe that love is a chain just like peace.

 

I totally agree that real love isn't possible for a Sith. I do not agree, though, that they necessarily think that.

 

Bane's Sith line at least believes that.

 

You sure that they see it that way? All of them?

I just don't get the impression it's important enough for there to be an official stance, though each Sith incarnation likely has a slightly different view.

 

Really, their view is very "We are a bunch of animals and we should kriffing act like it." So, I don't really see why you'd think the Sith would disagree with the stance that love is nonexistent or just another one of the chains that bind people. Assuming the Sith believe in love is too close to giving their viewpoint a softer side that it really is all about rejecting.

 

Because I don't think their stance is "We are a bunch of animals and we should kriffing act like it." Their view is "Morality is a lie. The strong should answer to no one." Sith don't believe they're evil. They don't believe in good and evil. The Sith believe they're right, and that's all. Would some Sith think love is crap? Sure. I think many Sith, especially when they're not just funneling all their hopes into two beings, believe anything the Jedi frown upon is good; they believe in taking full advantage, in order to serve what makes them happy and what makes them feel good, of what this world has given them. If they fall in what they perceive to be love, good, take advantage.

I believe that love is inconsistent with the Sith way of life, and with immersion in the dark side. I do not, however, believe that believing in love is inconsistent with the Sith philosophy. I believe it's possible for a Sith to believe he is in love. Is he really? No, probably not. It's probably an impulse that's become perverted into lust, greed, and hedonism, but I don't think they're beyond rationalizing that passionate love is just one of those things the Sith allow and the Jedi, in their supposed spartan aversion to life, deny.

 

ok - i was looking for the easy way out and hoping you guys would fill it all in...
so i'll jump back in the mix... lets try and collect direct quotes...

so far...

"Survival is a Sith trait. Jedi train themselves for self-sacrafice, for union with the Force, and they can afford to be suicidal, because there are so many of them. Sith train to survive."
-Lumiya

anyone care to add a quote or 2?

 

actually -- i say we continue this thread over http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b10003/26718048/p1/?0