Lit What was Darth Maul's true potential ?

I am asking this because clearly he could be ''so much more''...

And we know that Lucas said Sidious shouldn't have lost his apprentice in first place ;

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And lastly, we've learned in SoD that Maul potential was being more powerful than his mother; Talzin.

I mean he became considerably more powerful in the clone wars just with in few months,

Clearly I can't imagine what would he become in 10 years after the period of TPM, could he be a real challenge for his Master ? Or would he be still noticeably inferior to him ?

Well, this has --- somewhat unsurprisingly -- transformed into a "power levels" thread. So I'm afraid that's it.

 

I think Maul could have become a powerful being one day.

His only problem would have been he did not have another identity or any sort of life outside his apprenticeship to Sidious.

 

I could see Maul having a side identity as a Teras Kasi fighter, but overall his look is too distinctive to easily blend in.

 

I think he had the potential to be equal to Sidious.

 

I think he has / had the potential to replace Sidious as Dark Lord of the Sith, but not the same potential to rule the Republic / Empire. I believe Talzin could have taught him everything she and Sidious once shared to prepare him for that role. I don't believe at this point that Maul was ever more powerful than Talzin - her only equal rival was Sidious. It took a literal army to defeat her and Dathomir - twice, and it took Sidious, Dooku, and Grievous to "kill" her. If she got Maul to her level, he'd be unstoppable.

 

I really wonder that, are they actually add this scene to the blu-ray edition or not, it could give us more clue about Maul's potential.



***01.15***

 

Maul's potential - I wonder the same thing about Vader. Both of them are badass executioners, but I can't see either of them ruling an empire, despite their wishes.

 

Good point. They could rule the some parts of the systems though, since Maul proved his leadership abilities with Crime Syndicates and Mandalore, and Vader proved to be a very efficient military leader. But ruling the entire system would be very tough.

 

He died before his full potential was realised. His "resurrection" is impossible for me to comprehend.

 

Why ?It's a science fiction movie If you believe Palpatine can use essence transfer or Ben Kenobi turning into force ghost, why Maul survives from being cut in a half is a problem ?

 

Sith have a tendency to survive injuries that would kill most people. Mauls use of/strength in the darkside is a testament to that.

 

Then how come Darth Sidious wasn't aware of his former apprentice's survival? And how the hell did he get off Naboo in the first place? I still don't believe it. Not to mention when he reached the bottom, Maul's body was hitting the side of the shaft on the way down. Broken bones, skull smashed. He'd have been dead.

As far as I'm concern, he's dead.

 

Sidious isn't all knowing. I'm still not completely sure how he made it off Naboo, but he ended up on Lotho Minor. I know you don't believe it, so to each his own.

 

What I could never comprehend was why so many people wanted him back that TCW ultimately did it. The guy was pretty clearly just the Star Wars version of the Giant Sherpa, Nazi Mechanic and Thuggee Overseer from the Indiana Jones movies - he's the muscle there to give the heroes a good fight and then die. I liked Darth Maul, don't get me wrong, he was perfectly fine as that kind of one-shot villain - I just never thought he needed to be anything more.

(I suppose that's like the people who see Boba Fett in the original trilogy and can't understand why he warranted being brought back in the EU).

 

Its true that nearly anyone would have been killed based on the events we saw in TPM. He was created by Lucas and resurrected by him as well - so he is alive, no matter how plausible his survival is. Lucas wanted more for the character, just as many fans did - so he made it happen. There is a CW comic called "The Sith Hunters" that shows how Maul survived - I don't believe it falls into the canon category, but it offers an explanation that was likely approved by Lucas...

 

George Lucas disagrees with you. As does all of Lucasfilm.

 

A part from Maul: Lockdown ;

 

And here I see the problem that Maul was to be kept hidden by Sidious all the way until he was presented as a Sith to Nute Gunray via Holo-Comm and then to the public at Naboo fighting Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. At least he was the first Sith to go out in the open in flesh and blood after thousand years ever. But with this presentation he was vulnerable and had nothing to hide anymore after becoming that prominent as a Sith. And even if his mission at Naboo were successful. There would have been other missions and the Jedi would amass more Jedi to encounter him. There was neither chance for Maul to escape this his assigned role as an attack-dog to Sidious and Plagueis. Nor a substitute identity to hide inside as for instance the senator of Dathomir.

I find your lack of believe disturbing.

Ohhh, Maul was at Umbara? Together with Savage? I always thought, they didn't leave Mandalore once they were in. Or was that education taking place between Raydonia and Florrum? I have red the Shadow Conspiracy but I never saw Jason Fry mentioning there such a journey of the brothers. Or is there a much larger Director's Edition? I found this clip just now.

Anyway I can't rely on translated TCW-Episodes anymore. In "The Lawless", Satine is saying in English: I always loved you, Obi Wan. I always will. In German Satine is saying: Never give up what you believe in. I never did. Nice - isn't it?

Thus if ever somebody admonishes you to stick to what you believe in it could be a hidden confession of love to you - at least in German .

Komari Vosa intervened to rescue Maul from that implanted charges with her Jedi- and Sith-Training. Before she was overwhelmed by Boba Fett and killed by Dooku. Another failed maybe-romance IMHO. You can clearly feel that Maul is irritated by Komari Vosa's presence at the Hutt's ship. While she is advancing towards him he is afraid to be shaken in his believes and ways set for him by Sidious. Hence he kept her at distance.

To answer the question:
Of course I think that Maul could have become a rival to Sidious. He had the upbringing to be tough. He has the ability to make other people serve him. But he lacks the subtlety Palpatine or Plagueis had with that discrete charms of the bourgeouis and noble families with a long aristocratic tradition. That and a second civil identity would have make it much easier. But that was never destined by his master or aspired by Plagueis. Maybe when Sidious had found Maul soon after the incident of Naboo he would have rescued and fostered him to complete his training.

But maybe after his double failure at Tatooine and Naboo shortly afterwards Sidious deemed Maul to be to proud, to uncautious and to haughty to fulfill the Grand Plan of the Sith. And that's why he didn't contact Maul after he presented himself again after 12 years at Raydonia. Savage was not to be seen on that Holo-Transmission to the Jedi-Temple. Thus Sidious could have travel there - to meet and greet his apprentice. And to discover poor Savage on Maul's side. And to change his mind once again. That's only my personal opinion.

If this Sith-academy at Umbara is really still in place, Maul could use the time after his escape from Dathomir and Order 66 to complete his training there. Then the black Sith-Robe he is wearing in the deleted TCW-Episodes in the 7th season would perfectly make sense. But I doubt that the Emperor Palpatine will allow such an academy. Especially with such a notorious/prominent pupil like Maul. Will he? As a mint for future inquisitors or right hands?

 

I think Maul had a lot of potential. I never had any problem with him appearing in TCW. I had seen Darth Vader use the dark side and his cybernetics to stay alive through his hatred and iron will, similarly to how Darth Malgus remained alive. Indeed, Darth Sion was a walking corpse, sustained by the pain, anger, hatred, greed, and black will of the dark side. I think Darth Maul could have become as powerful as Darth Vader. He clearly was very intelligent, ruthless, and crafty like Vader. He could have run his own criminal underworld just as Vader took charge of much of the Imperial military. But I doubt he had the subtlety, patience, and other abilities that Sidious possessed. Son of Dathomir shows this. Maul was mono-focused on destroying Sidious, and he didn't have sufficient skill or means to keep his criminal empire together. Had he been more patient and paid more attention to the details, he couldn't have lost his power so quickly by playing into Sidious's hands.

 

I think Lucas said Vader, Maul and Dooku were all on the same level.

 

I feel Maul is only growing in power after SOD, because Sidious isn't seeking him. He can take the time to study and perfect his use of the darkside during this gap in the time line. He may also be communing with Talzin via the Force. If he had the potential to surpass her, he had the potential to surpass Sidious as well.

 

Whatever his potential before he died on Naboo was, I can't really imagine he reached Dooku's level. The man was going evenly with Yoda in Clones.

 

Yoda was holding back since Dooku was Yoda's former Padawan and no, Dooku was losing that fight badly.



Not to mention Dooku knew every weakness of Ataru (Yoda's style) and Yoda is unable to produce kinetic power (due to his small size and his small blade) to beat Dooku's very elegant style makashi. That is why Anakin able to beat him while he wasn't good enough to beat Obi-Wan, and even Savage Opress managed to disarm Dooku in a saber fight.



If you want to see Maul against a high level power, then here Darth Maul vs. Darth Sidious ;

 

What Dooku did too Obi-Wan and Anakin is what "losing badly" looks like. Yoda was clearly at least as tired as Dooku by the end of their fight. By ROTS Dooku had gone from 80~ to 90~, he wasn't as strong anymore, whereas for Yoda that time is an insignificant drop in the 900 year pond. And Yoda had achieved a brandnew understanding and closeness to the Force in Clone Wars' final season. He was probably a lot stronger in ROTS.

 

Couldn't ever see how that'd be true.