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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

What was Palpatine's plan in The Phantom Menace?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by _Catherine_, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    I haven't read Cloak of Deception, Saboteur, Shadow Hunter, Labyrinth of Evil, or any TPM-era sourcebooks in eons (or at all in the case of Darth Plagueis) and with TPM out in theaters again I'm trying to remember exactly what was going on behind the scenes in that movie. To what extent does the EU fill in the blanks in what we see on screen, regarding what Palpatine originally wanted to happen, what he had to improvise, what worked out by luck, etc.?

    More specifically:

    1) The blockade and invasion of Naboo was Palpatine's idea, right? How did he get the Trade Federation to go along with it? What did they think this was going to accomplish for them?

    2) What was Palpatine hoping to accomplish through the blockade? If getting Valorum kicked out of office and being elected to replace him was his plan from the beginning, how was blockading Naboo going to accomplish this if the Senate didn't know what the situation was? He ordered the Jedi witnesses killed and blocked the Naboo's transmissions. What was keeping the whole situation confined to one planet supposed to do?

    3) Why was Palpatine so intent on having Amidala sign a treaty to legalize the invasion? I assume this was his original plan, and then when it didn't work out he switched tactics and manipulated the queen into declaring a vote of no confidence in Valorum. But why did he want her to legalize the invasion in the first place? If the invasion was legal, there would be no crisis in the Senate and no reason to elect a new chancellor. How was that supposed to help his plan?

    4) Once Palpatine was nominated to replace Valorum, why did he still care about the events playing out on Naboo? Why did he send Darth Maul back there and why was he so invested in helping the Neimoidians fend off the Naboo/Gungan resistance? At that point, why did anything that happened on Naboo matter at all anymore?

    5) What role did Dooku, Sifo-Dyas, and the clone army play in all of this? That whole thing was going down at about the same time, right? Did Palpatine always intend for the Jedi to find out about the clone army and use it to fight the Separatists, or was he originally growing the clones as a weapon to use against the Republic? If the former, was it just coincidence that Obi-Wan traced Jango's dart back to Kamino, and that just happened to play into Palpatine's hands?

    Was it ever made clear, or at least clearer, what was going on here?
     
  2. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    It's all answered in DARTH PLAGUEIS. Actually, I'll just PM it to you.
     
  3. fistofan1

    fistofan1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Regarding the question of why Palpatine wanted the Trade Federation to defend Naboo, could if have been that he wanted the Clone Wars to start then and there? Or was it just that he wanted to prolong the conflict to add more tension to the race for Chancellorship?
     
  4. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 1999
    If you don't mind, could you post it here? I'm interested too...
     
  5. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    As Palpatine, he convinced Valorum to begin taxation of the Outer Rim trade routes.

    As Sidious, he told the Trade Federation to blockade Naboo as a protest against Palpatine's championing of the taxation bill.


    His original plan was to make Valorum look weak and ineffectual by being unable to prevent the blockade of Naboo. Padme's signing of the treaty was meant to further weaken Valorum's position. He also planned to take advantage of the Senate's sympathies to get voted as Chancellor in Valorum's place.
     
  6. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    But why did they listen to him? What were they going to get out of it?

    How?
     
  7. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    First of all, remember that the Neimoidians are primarily driven by profit. When Palpatine first contacted the Trade Federation, he told them that he would help them gain more control over the Outer Rim's trading routes and thus earn more profit. When the Senate's taxation bill went through, the Federation realized that such a tax would cut into their profits, and they were justifiably outraged. As Sidious, Palpatine offered them a way to take out their outrage on the Republic at minimal risk to themselves.

    Here is one passage from the end of Cloak of Deception:

    If Padme had signed the treaty, Palpatine would have gone onto the Senate floor and said something like "See? Valorum was powerless to prevent that from happening!"
     
  8. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Sidious was also responsible for making Gunray the Viceroy, and there were strained relations between Naboo and the TF over their long-controversial plasma contract.

    It's also funny that the Trade Federation was originally against the creation of the free trade zones.
     
  9. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Which would explain why the Neimoidians trusted that Sidious would make the blockade work to their advantage. I think I forgot basically everything that happens in CoD.
     
  10. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    You know what I'm wondering?
    Why Palpatine revealed his Sith identity to the Neimoidians.
     
  11. KnightDawg

    KnightDawg Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2007
    To strike fear.
     
  12. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Because Plagueis told him to.

    And I don't think the plan would have worked if they knew it was Senator Palpatine contacting them, telling them to invade his homeworld. :p
     
  13. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2003
    End of discussion?

    :p
     
  14. CaptainYossarian

    CaptainYossarian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Palpatine's plan was to cause a crisis that would make Valorum look bad when he failed to resolve it. Eventually, someone (probably at his secret behest) would call a vote of no confidence which he would ensure that Valorum lost.

    The Republic increased taxes on trade routes, which obviously affected the profits of the TF and they were upset (Palpatine may have been involved in getting the new taxes made law in the first place). So Palpatine (as Sidious) goes to the TF and promises them to get rid of the high taxes in the new administration if they go along with his plan.

    Invading Naboo as a protest would cause such a crisis because it would be obvious that the Naboo did not want the TF there but there would be nothing the Chancellor could do. Palpatine wanted a treaty to be signed so the TF occupation would be legal and therefore there would be no quick way of ousting them - in this way, Palps was using the Republic's laws against itself. The treaty would ensure that the occupation could continue for as long as Palps wanted it to.

    Palps envisaged playing a long game - slowly making the Senate realise that the Naboo were suffering and chipping away at Valorum as his efforts to resolve the crisis failed. As it was, the Queen's escape from Naboo actually helped him and accelerated his plans. He could now have her appear in the Senate in person and appeal directly to the assembly which brought to issue to the front of the agenda and resulted in a swift vote of no confidence.

    Valorum was actually a very good leader though, he acted swiftly in dispatching the Jedi to force a settlement ? against normal procedures and without authorisation. He knew the Senate would take ages to decide what to do so he acted unilaterally.

    Palpatine was nominated to succeed Valorum and must have been sure of winning but he still cared about events on Naboo. He probably wished to resolve the situation in the way he intended originally, by having the TF pull out of their own accord. So he had to support them when the Naboo and Gungans fought back. If the TF was defeated then they would be kicked off Naboo and tried for their crimes. That would seriously affect their standing in the galaxy and may make the TF unable to further participate in his schemes. So he tried to help them defeat the Naboo so they could maintain their status and leave the planet sometime later under Palpatine?s new leadership of the Republic. As it was the TF were defeated, but Palpatine still managed to look heroic. He would of course then have the work behind the scenes to ensure that the TF did not suffer too much for their actions on Naboo.


    As far as the clones go, from the films it appears that Dooku left the Jedi soon after Ep I and Sifo-Dyas died (probably killed by Dooku the new Sith apprentice). Dooku (as Tyranus) hired Jango Fett and then placed the order with the Kaminoans using Sifo-Dyas?s name, posing as a representative of the Jedi and Republic. The EU situation is more complicated I believe though.

    Palpatine did not intend the Jedi to discover the clones when they did ? that was due to Obi-Wan following the clue of Jango?s saberdart and managing to work it out. Palpatine did intend to use the clones in a war against the Separatists though. He had Dooku set himself up as the charismatic leader to create a schism in the galaxy and push the two sides towards war. Palpatine needed the groups like the Trade Federation to support the CIS and provide their droid armies for the coming conflict, which is why he kept Nute Gunray out of jail after Ep I.

    A war was necessary to weaken the Jedi, leading to their eventual elimination, and to ensure he could proclaim himself Emperor. The discovery of the clones and the start of the war on Geonosis was unintentional but once again it actually helped Palpatine. In order to protect the Republic he had to be given the authority to order the use of the clones. So the Senate voted to give him emergency powers to bypass the usual process and authorise the creation of an army. So Palpa
     
  15. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2004
    I don't know what the EU says about it, but I've always thought it would have played out like this:

    Sidious has the Trade Federation blockade Naboo. The droids capture the Queen and force her to sign the treaty, legitimizing the occupation. In the Senate, Palpatine uses this incident to oust Valorum and become Chancellor, due to his sympathy vote, and his influence with the Trade Federation, since he has friends on both sides of the fence as both Palpatine and Sidious. He keeps Maul as his apprentice, and things pretty much follow the plan we saw - Kamino order is placed, Clone Wars begin, Order 66, and the declaration of Empire.

    The only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not he wanted Queen Amidala killed. It doesn't seem that way in the film, since he uses her as a pawn when she shows up on Coruscant. I'm guessing he figured he can't get her to sign the treaty as Sidious, so he'll use Palpatine and try to use her a different way. He seemed pretty insistent on having Maul capture her and take her back to Naboo, and Qui-Gon strongly felt that she would be killed after she had outlived her usefulness.

    And there's always the question of Kamino, and how he would have ordered the Clones without a Jedi in his pocket. I don't think he ever intended to lose Darth Maul, and he probably could have had anyone actually order the clones, since they're for the Republic, not just the Jedi Council.

    I think Sidious was kind of "winging it" until he came across Anakin, and then he really formulated a plan.
     
  16. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
     
  17. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I don't think it's ever made absolutely clear what Palpatine's scheme was if Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan hadn't gotten in his way, but I think from what we have, it would look something like the Trade Federation getting a treaty signed that would create a bureaucratic roadblock to resolving the conflict as the Senate spends its time investigating the treaty and occupation. Palpatine would manipulate that situation to make Valorum look ineffective and get his vote of no confidence that way. He'd then be in a position to bring a triumphant conclusion to the standoff because he controls both sides, while he could use the simmering tension between the Republic and the Trade Federation, which would avoid sanctions but would have taken a big black mark on its reputation, to help provide the basis for the Clone Wars. So it's to Palpatine's disadvantage to have the Trade Federation defeated and subject to criminal sanctions, which will take a lot more energy to get them out of quietly and which doesn't give Palpatine the chance to be the big hero himself, but he can still salvage what he needs out of the situation he's given.

    For the Clone Wars, it's also not clear how exactly they were intended to start. I'd guess that Palpatine wanted to get the Military Creation Act pushed through and at the same time either leak something to the Jedi that would put them on the path to discovering the Kamino clones themselves, or have the Kaminoans come to them and say, "Your order's ready." The Republic's sudden possession of a secret army could provide the Separatists the justification to start the war preemptively (while Palpatine would be able to hang the whole thing on the Jedi for buying a secret army years in advance). Geonosis just jump-started the whole thing early by forcing the Separatists to act to keep their corporate allies secret and provoking the Jedi into instantly pulling the clone army out of nowhere after they were tipped too early by Jango's use of Kaminoan technology. It didn't give him the chance to extend the political crisis and made the Jedi's roles as instigators much more obscure.