What was the greatest lie/deception in ROTS?

What was the greatest lie/deception in ROTS?

Now i'm pretty sure that this has not been discussed yet. and i thought it would make good conversation . so I pose a Question, which can be approached from a Philosophical , literal or Practical angle.

What is the Greatest Lie/deception told In ROTS?. Is it the Lie/deception that Palpatine tells Anakin about Plagiues" power , Is it The lie/deception that Padme hides her Marriage and Pregnancy from everyone.The same goes for Anakin, he lies about his marriage and lies to Padme about what he's done.
Obi-Wan is deceitful by stowing away on Padme's ship, no matter how necessary.
Palpatine is deceitful towards the entire Republic, staging the war. etc...

Basically , what to YOU is the greatest and why?

 

"It seems, in your anger, you killed her."

As we now know, Padme died largely because of the inexperience the Polis Masan's had with humans, and perhaps from a "broken heart", but certainly not directly from the Force Choke. This lie is what crushed Vader, what left him with nothing except for the Empire. The false burden this created in Vader could easily have aided his ruthlessness, thus making this lie a catalyst in Vader's complete fall.

 

"The Jedi Council want control of the Republic, they're planning to betray me"

lol...the whole idea of that is silly

 

This might make a good discussion but I fear once it gets going you'll ask the mods to lock the thread.

The biggest lie/deception was everything Anakin told Padme after his turn.

 

Palpatine: "...he could even keep the ones that he cared for the most, from dying."

 

Excellent thread Master Duggy

*bows*

I would say that the single greatest deception achieved in ROTS is Sidious' lie about being able to cheat death. That single lie sets the background for EVERYTHING that follows and gives Anakin all the moral fuel he needs to do the things that his conscience screams out against.

That lie allows Anakin to entertain the thought of jumping into the Darkside of the Force to save Padme.

That lie allows Sidious to reveal himself to Anakin without fear of retribution for his obvious War crimes.

That lie dictates the timeframe and direction of the Mace/Sidious duel....as well as the outcome.

That lie is the overpowering base of Anakin's conversion from Lightside Jedi to Sith Assassin.....as it coats his conscience in combination with the much more deluted Jedi traitor lie.

That lie even serves as the one thing Anakin needed to address his true feelings towards Master Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar and release all of his anger........a lesson Vader learned from by the time of the OT.

 

Lie or not, the idea that it's possible to cheat death is very enticing. At first you might think "Oh that's silly...it couldn't possibly be true". But as you think about it more and more, you would probably eventually try to find a way to do it.

As for the Jedi betraying Palpatine, that is true from a certain point of view. The did want to remove the Chancellor from power. They did plan on taking control of the Senate. That doesn't mean what the Jedi were doing was bad, but fact for fact, Palpatine's words were not outright lies. Because from the Sith Lord's point of view, he knows he's taken too much power, he knows the Jedi are getting suspicious of him, and he knows that they would probably try to eliminate him. So he just tells this to Anakin while hiding behind his veil of legitimacy.

 

palpatine: "anakin you are very wise."

 

Anakin - "The Jedi turned against me"

Short term memory caused by inhaling the lava smoke or something?

- O_F

 

PALPATINE: I'm too weak. Don't kill me. Please.

Classic!

 

That was more of a exeggeration than a lie imo

He IS, saberless and floored, too weak for Mace when he says that.

"I have the power to save the one you love!!!" was the lie in that scene.

- O_F

 

That was more of a exeggeration than a lie imo

He IS, saberless and floored, too weak for Mace when he says that.

LOL -I didnt expect any less a response from a no voter!

But maybe this will change your view:

They then do the Sith lord?s pseudo-grovelling as Mace prepares to kill him, and Lucas says, ?This is the point where all the kids in the audience stand up and say, ?it?s a trick! Don?t listen to him!??

George Lucas - Making of Revenge of the Sith - Final Chapter (not in the book - online).

 

"...He could even save the ones he loved from dying..." THis has to be it. Nothing could have made Anakin actively choose the dark path but this. He felt he had no choice, he had to go through with it. Unfortunately, Padme was going to die regardless of anyone's actions, or inactions, for such was the way of the force. This plot deepened the tragedy that was impending.

 

Palpatine: "...he could even keep the ones that he cared for the most, from dying."
there's a lie within the lie here as well...
a sith caring for someone other than himself???
that'll be a day long remembered.

 

It is still a trick; Palpatine can fight on, he's not weak in the sense that "he can't go on anymore" - he's weak in the sense that he has nothing on Mace and needs Anakin to help him out.

"The Jedi Master is winning when Anakin arrives, but Palpatine, as the scene has been rethought, now seizes the occasion to exaggerate his weakness. You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

He's not pretending or inventing to be weak; he's just exaggerating it. It is a deception, but not a blatant lie; "I have the power..." is the lie through & through.

- O_F

 

the source has to be palpatine but there were so many layers, one after another. and it's also twisting was was true:
1. yes the jedi have asked anakin to "spy" on palapatine but palps uses that truth and weaves it into his assertion to anakin that the jedi are as selfish as the sith and this is proof of their corruption.
2. truth depends on your point of view
3. use my knowledge, i beg you - .....to save your wife from certaindeath
4. because of their lack of trust in you my young apprentice you are the only jedi w/o knowledge of their plot (to overthrow the chancellor and the senate and take over)
5. and we shall have peace

 

It is still a trick; Palpatine can fight on, he's not weak in the sense that "he can't go on anymore" - he's weak in the sense that he has nothing on Mace and needs Anakin to help him out.

"The Jedi Master is winning when Anakin arrives, but Palpatine, as the scene has been rethought, now seizes the occasion to exaggerate his weakness. You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

He's not pretending or inventing to be weak; he's just exaggerating it. It is a deception, but not a blatant lie; "I have the power..." is the lie through & through.

It also says - Psudeo grovelling though that means faking. He's not too weak. He can continue.

Therefore "Im too weak" and "I cant hold on any longer" - are blatant lies.

Probably best not to get into why or how he is in that position but the lie doesnt have anything to do with that anyway.

Could he have carried on? Yes
Was he too weak? No

 

Pseudo groveling aren't Lucas's words though, someone else typed that out. "Exaggerating his weakness" came directly from the flanneled man; therefore, i win

It's a little nitpicky to say he wasn't deceiving Anakin, i know. But it's just not that big of a lie to me; especially because he says "I have the power to save the one you love" in the same scene, that makes the "i'm too weak" inferior as a lie/deception in everyway. Especially because at least the "weak" line can be debated, the "power" one is just a straight up lie from every angle.

- O_F

 

Oh I agree - the cheating death lie was the biggest. Neverthless, I say that the grovelling was a lie too!

Oh and those 'exaggerating' words weren't direct from Lucas either! It was the author's wording.

Therefore I have the moral victory!

 

Many of the lies and deceptions in ROTS can be looked at as "well, it was more of an exaggeration" or "it's all in how you look at it" so that the stuff is debatable.

(sidenote: it's too bad qui-gon wasn't around- he told TWO OUTRIGHT lies in just the ONE movie he was in, the big LIAR. "I've acquired a pod in a game of chance" and "checking your blood for infections".)

 

Not to mention outright cheating with Watto and his Chance Cube.

"You Jedi are far too reckless."

 

My vote is fot the cheat death lie. With that lie alone started a snowball effect even if he didnt tell anymore lies. With that said he put some thoughts in Anakin's head that had never been there (joining the darkside) Think about it just that one lie Ani's now thinking if i join the darkside or just atleast learn this power i can save padme then move away and never have to furhter go down the DARK path. The lie isn't that palpatine cheats death but tha he is going to teach it to anakin to save padme's life. Lies are just like pringles you cant have just one.

 

THE biggest lie was Palpatine convincing Anakni to join the Dark Side of the force in order to save his wife. The only reason Palpatin wanted Anakin was to serve as his apprentice.

 

Pretty much everything Palpatine says in the entire movie (heck the entire PT) is a lie! The guy truely is the greatest lier/hypocrite in film history!

Seriously, is there one line in the movie where he isn't lying/playing/manipulating someone?

 

His only sincere moment in the saga was the touch on Vader's forehead on Mustafar. Other than that, all lies and no concern whatsoever.