What were Obi-wan?s intentions?

In this quote Lucas says Obi-wan wanted to train Luke to bring Vader back from the dark Side

"The part I am working on now is mostly about Darth Vader, who he is, where he came from, how he became Luke and Leia's father, what his relationship to Ben is. In Jedi, the film is really about the Redemption of this fallen angel. Ben is the fitting good angel, and Vader is the bad angel who started off good. All these years Ben has been waiting for Luke to come of age so that he can become a Jedi and redeem his father. That's what Ben has been doing, but you don't know this in the first film."
--George Lucas



But it means I understood parts of the original movies wrongly, because I thought Obi-wan made it clear that he wanted Luke to kill Vader.

I thought Obi-wan gave up on Vader and though the best thing to do was to train Luke to kill him. (I posted this in the Episode 3 forum but feel this is a more appropriate place)

This is from the expanded script:

BEN: Your father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, he betrayed everything and everyone that he had ever believed in.

The good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view.

LUKE: (turning away, derisive) ?A certain point of view??!?

BEN: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

LUKE: You let me think I was training to face my father?s killer. Not to slay my own flesh and blood.

Ben studies him in silence for a moment.

BEN: I don't blame you for being angry. If I was wrong in what I did, it certainly wouldn't have been for the first time. You see, what happened to your father? was my fault.


LUKE: There's still good in him.

BEN: I also thought he could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.

LUKE: (shakes his head slowly) I can't do it, Ben.

BEN: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.

LUKE: I tried to stop him once. I couldn't do it.

BEN: Vader humbled you when first you met him, Luke...but that experience taught you, among
other things, the value of patience. Had you not been so impatient to defeat Vader then, you could have finished your training here with Yoda. You would have been prepared.

LUKE: But I had to help my friends.

BEN: And did you help them? It was they who had to save you. You achieved little by rushing back prematurely, I fear.

Luke is somber, quiet. He knows Ben?s right.

BEN: To be a Jedi, Luke, you must confront and then go beyond the dark side - the side your father couldn't get past. Impatience is the easiest door - for you, like your father. Only, your father was seduced by what he found on the other side of the door, and you have held firm. You're no longer so reckless now, Luke. You are strong and patient.

LUKE: (sad) I can?t do what you expect of me. I can't kill my own father.

BEN: You should not think of that monster as your father?

Luke doesn?t answer. Ben sighs and looks down, defeated.

BEN: Then the Emperor has already won. Darkness will prevail. You were our only hope.

LUKE: Yoda spoke of another. Perhaps I can train him to --

BEN: The other he spoke of is your twin sister. And she will find it no easier to destroy Vader.



Most specific quotes that I used to think show Obi-wan wanted Luke to kill Vader:

Luke: You let me think I was training to face my father?s killer. Not to slay my own flesh and blood. (From expanded script)

Obi-wan: You should not think of that monster as your father

Of course, it was a mistake Obi-wan made, cause he thought Vader couldn?t be turned good. It was Luke?s decision which was the good one, and it showed that a father-son relationship is stronger then the normal principles by which the Jedi lived.

 

*gasp!* I've been saying this elsewhere that Ben and Yoda wanted Luke to redeem Vader! Where did this GL quote come from Keeper?

One explanation is that the scripts were done before the PT, and GL has rewritten some things since then. With the stuff that is in the films and not cut out, it can be explained. For instance, in order for Luke to really get to his father and get him to do the right thing, his feelings would have to be very genuine and strong, and if Vader sensed instead that Luke was 'saving' him just because Ben and Yoda told him to, then the story may have turned out very differently. It is Luke's sincerity and strong feelings on the subject that, I'm sure, manages to reach Anakin. And Ben and Yoda would have known this. So they manipulated him but only because they know how headstrong those Skywalker boys can be and that Luke would be even more determined to save his father, (and Anakin would have no doubt he was being sincere). Reverse psychology. who'da thunk it? lol

sg

 

well, alot of the things you put in bold were edited out of the movie. although i must say i'm not to sure how to reply to this one. my guess is that perhaps Ben wanted Anakin to turn back to the light, but if he couldn't, then Ben would probably want Luke to kill him.

 

Ob1 want that Vader be killed, and Anikan return.

 

Where did this GL quote come from Keeper??It was from an interview. I?ll PM it to you.

Yes, generallee5. I said some of it was from the expanded script. But there are still quite specific quotes that obi-wan wanted Luke to kill Vader.

Yeah Isbagent, but if Luke struck Vader down, Anakin would be killed automatically.


I can?t do what you expect of me. I can't kill my own father.

Ben: You should not think of that monster as your father?

Luke doesn?t answer. Ben sighs and looks down, defeated.

BEN: Then the Emperor has already won. Darkness will prevail. You were our only hope

 

Only Luke believed that there was still good in Vader. Ben and Yoda thought that there was no way to turn Vader back to the Light side. Ben and Yoda wanted him dead.

 

Both the script and the interview can be correct. If you assume a Ben/Yoda attitude of "Vader will join us, or die", then both make sense.

 

That's possible, I suppose.

 

but if Luke struck Vader down, Anakin would be killed automatically.

But in the process he would be setting Anikan free, (through death) right?