Where does Vader's "conflicting emotions" begin?

It's clear by ROTJ, Vader is wrestling with himself over trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side. It's reflected as early as the Emperor's line: "I hope your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader."

Does it begin in TESB when he's battling Luke? Obviously, at first he is holding back because he is trying to steer Luke into the carbonite freezing chamber.

 

Probably when Luke would rather die than turn to the Darkside.

This has to shake your foundations a bit... especially when it is your own son.

 

I say it starts the second he finds out he has a son(after ANH but before TESB) seeing how he started lying to Palpatine even before the duel and such.

 

When he was forced to shoot R2D2...

 

I would say that it was the moment he acknowledged the fact that Luke was HIS son. Vader did not want to be recognised as Anakin Skywalker, still he was saying that Skywalker's son was his....

 

just after he kills ben and ben dissapears..

 

I would say that it was the moment he acknowledged the fact that Luke was HIS son. Vader did not want to be recognised as Anakin Skywalker, still he was saying that Skywalker's son was his....


yes indeed, i'd word it differently but that's it imo.

i'd say it's when his life as anakin comes back to haunt him in the form of luke, the son he does not know but loves none the less.

he hates himself, hates his life that was, and has completely submerged himself in the life he has left:

that of the masked dark lord of the sith.

so now he claims his son, not just in words but in the place he probably should have left closed, his heart.

and when that happens he becomes torn, he wants to become 'darth vader the father of luke', but luke is and always will be anakin's son.

quite the conflict that builds.

 

My guess is, that Vader conflict begins the moment Luke throws himself of the edge and falls into the chasm in Cloud City.

Perhaps Vader see's Luke as more powerfull when it comes to willpower, his son would rather die than turn to the dark side. The best sign that Vader has changed or that Vader at least has an internal conflict is his reaction after Admiral Piett fails and lets the Falcon get away. The old Vader would have killed Piett instantly for making such a serious mistake. The new Vader just turns around and leaves the bridge in silence.

 

You hit that one right on the nose, Palpatine!

 

My guess is, that Vader conflict begins the moment Luke throws himself of the edge and falls into the chasm in Cloud City.

Perhaps Vader see's Luke as more powerfull when it comes to willpower, his son would rather die than turn to the dark side. The best sign that Vader has changed or that Vader at least has an internal conflict is his reaction after Admiral Piett fails and lets the Falcon get away. The old Vader would have killed Piett instantly for making such a serious mistake. The new Vader just turns around and leaves the bridge in silence.


i never thought about that being the moment his conflict began, very interesting.

i agree 100% the fight with luke in ESB had a profound impact on vader, shook him to his core so to speak.

you could indeed be right.

 

Maybe Vader is torn in ESB (or at least he appears to change) because he knows his time is almost up. He's probably thinking "man I shouldn't have mentioned this whole turning the boy to the darkside to Palpy", because that would ultimately mean Luke would become his replacement.

 

I'd just like to add this concerning the moment when Piett fails and the Falcon escapes.


I love the look on Piett's face when the Falcon blasts into Hyperspace and Vader just stares out into space.
Kenneth Colley (Piett) looks kinda nervous, or is it just me?

 

I would have to say after his lightsabre duel wuth Luke in ESB on Cloud City.

 

For me, it begins when the Millenium Falcon escapes, on Bespin. He stand a long time, just looking at Bespin's sky...I think he's asking to himself some interesting questions about his loyalty for his Master, and about his son reaction to the "I am your father" revelation.

 

They begin right after the Falcon jumps into hyperspace. Prowse did a remarkable job making it clear that Vader was contemplating something, even though we couldn't see his face. Then he turned and strode silently away.

One of ESB's best moments, and the beginning of Vader's turn back to Anakin Skywalker.

 

I don't believe Vader ever struggles with the idea of turning Luke to the dark side. He wants to rule the galaxy as father and son. He only struggles with the idea of killing Luke. Right up until Luke attacks Vader and cuts off his hand, Vader wants to make Luke his Sith apprentice. When Luke announces that he'll never turn to the dark side, Vader and Sidious both believe him for the first time.

Vader's world changes at that instant. Sidious had just betrayed Vader by urging Luke to kill him, and Luke had refused. Sidious has no choice but to kill Luke. Vader has to decide if he's going to allow that. Luke demonstrated that he was unwilling to trade family for power, and Vader immediately faces the same choice.

Even if Vader had been willing to let Luke die, his situation with Sidious was pretty bad. Sidious had shown his true feelings by asking Luke to kill Vader, and with the existence of Luke's sister revealed, it was inevitable that Vader would have to go through the same thing again. Sidious would want Leia to be his new apprentice and for Vader to die. If Vader was going to live, he'd eventually have to see both his children die.

 

I like to think the cracking starts in ANH when he meets up again with Obi-Wan. It might have been ok if not for the fact that he actually killed Obi-Wan and that Obi-Wan let him. There's a lot to question about those motives, but I have to think that one result would be getting Vader to second-guess himself and to remember the past he'd tried to supress. With Kenobi dead, there goes the last link to Anakin's Jedi life... so he thinks. But Obi-Wan has Luke, the Ace in the hole, and Vader is very soon going to be confronted with that reality. The crack widens.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

I'm not exactly sure when Vader began to have conflicting emotions but alot of the ideas here resemble my own.

Yet, I just bought the OT DVD set last night and watched Jedi. I haven't watched the old trilogy since right before Episode 1 came out.

Having not been completely spoiler free (don't worry I am not revealing anything here) for ROTS I began to wonder about Vader watching Luke get tormented by Palp's force lightning.

We've always known that he must have felt bad for Luke in some way which made him dispise Palpy enough to destroy him hence bringing balance to the force.

What I had not thought before was that maybe when Vader was looking to Luke he may have been thinking "this is all I have left of Padme, at least I can save him".

Its such a stark revelation considering Anakin wanted so bad to be able to have the power to keep people from dying. Finally he had a way to keep a person from dying that was not dark side related or "unnatural".

I know this is hypothetical in the sense that George had in no way writtin it like that in 1983 (when I was 6 years old) but as the characters exists inside the premise of the film it seems relevant.

 

I think the conflict began when Luke and Vader kind of talked together through the force near the end of ESB.