Where exactly *IS* Alderaan???

While never specifically stated in any of the movies, and while the EU sources I have seen place Alderaan among the Core Worlds, there is enough evidence to lead me to my theory, in which I believe that Alderaan is actually located in the Outer Rim.

First, when Vader captures Leia's ship, she claims to be "a member of the Imperial Senate, on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan", so if this is true, then why would she be out in the Outer Rim, unless that is where Alderaan is located. If Alderaan is a Core World, then there is no conceivable way one would get to Tatooine if one was going from Coruscant (Senate Chambers ) to Alderaan. Leia could have come up with any number of plausible excuses to give Vader, and to claim to be heading somewhere that far off is ludicrous. Alderaan has to be in the vicinity of Tatooine in the Outer Rim for her excuse to have any validity whatsoever. And Leia is hardly the type to just use any excuse. Her reasons must seem plausible in order for them to have a chance at working, which is what she is hoping when she first confronts Vader.

Another point is that one of Grand Moff Tarkin's titles is Governor of the Outer Rim Territories, and I hardly think he would simply advance on a Core World, without the Emperor's permission, and the permission of whoever was governor of that region. As Tarkin informs his officers that, with the disbanding of the Senate, that the regional governors now have more direct control of their territories, he therefore would need no offical approval to destroy Alderaan, it's already part of his domain that he has direct control over.

Also, when the Millenium Falcon enters the remains of the Alderaan system and they spot the TIE fighter, Luke, Han and Obiwan wonder how a one-man fighter could have gotten that deep into space, hardly how one would describe the Core Worlds Region. Again, tho, exactly how one could describe the Outer Rim.

I submit that the EU has overblown the importance of Alderaan in the GFFA, and that Alderaan is NOT located in the Core Worlds, as the EU wouldhave us believe, but in the Outer Rim as is hinted at in the movies.

 

She's right!

 

wow, never really thought about it that way. it makes a lot of sense. if only the EU authors could've figured this out before they decided to place alderaan where they did. but, i guess they were more worried about force-weilding witches and stuff.

 

Alderaan is in the middle of that huge asteroid belt......

Oops, sorry! It is the asteroid belt!

"wonder how a one-man fighter could have gotten that deep into space, hardly how one would describe the Core Worlds Region. Again, tho, exactly how one could describe the Outer Rim."

Tie fighters are short-range fighters. With no hyperdrive, they have to be picked up and dropped off where they are needed. You won't find a tie fighter without some ship or planet nearby for it to land. They were too far away to see the DS at first, and there was obviously no planet in sight, hence the confusement (if that's a word )

 

I am not going to pick holes in your theory because, for the most part, I think you are right.

The only thing I would comment on is the idea that Tarkin just woudln't blow up Alderaan unless it was in his territory. IMO, I don't think it would have mattered. I have always had a hunch/belief that the Emperor and Tarkin would have corresponded on where the Death Star was to be used first. I think Tarkin made it out to Leia that he was going after the rebel base, but in fact the Emperor and Tarkin had previously decided on Alderaan as the planet for the 'example' to be carried out on. Of course, I don't claim to have any substantial proof to back this, it is just a theory of mine.

Tayschrenn

 

i think the important question is....does it really matter?

 

Does anything on a Star Wars-themed message board? Probably not, but I find it interesting. I'm curious to see an explantion to what EmpressPalpatine has pointed out.

Tayschrenn

 

While never specifically stated in any of the movies, and while the EU sources I have seen place Alderaan among the Core Worlds, there is enough evidence to lead me to my theory, in which I believe that Alderaan is actually located in the Outer Rim.

The only problem here is, that when they made the Galaxy Map included in the New Jedi Order books, they didn't just sit there and place the planets. Extensive research was done from all EU sources, and the movies. LucasFilm was also involved in the NJO Planning process, and had to authorize the map, the names, and locations.

First, when Vader captures Leia's ship, she claims to be "a member of the Imperial Senate, on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan", so if this is true, then why would she be out in the Outer Rim, unless that is where Alderaan is located. If Alderaan is a Core World, then there is no conceivable way one would get to Tatooine if one was going from Coruscant (Senate Chambers ) to Alderaan. Leia could have come up with any number of plausible excuses to give Vader, and to claim to be heading somewhere that far off is ludicrous. Alderaan has to be in the vicinity of Tatooine in the Outer Rim for her excuse to have any validity whatsoever. And Leia is hardly the type to just use any excuse. Her reasons must seem plausible in order for them to have a chance at working, which is what she is hoping when she first confronts Vader.

Maybe they were on a long string of missions, and went as far out as they had to, and were working their way back home. Also remember, she knows that her story is bologna, and will not fool Vader for a minute. It's just a desperate stab in the dark, "Maybe, just maybe he'll believe me."

Another point is that one of Grand Moff Tarkin's titles is Governor of the Outer Rim Territories, and I hardly think he would simply advance on a Core World, without the Emperor's permission, and the permission of whoever was governor of that region. As Tarkin informs his officers that, with the disbanding of the Senate, that the regional governors now have more direct control of their territories, he therefore would need no offical approval to destroy Alderaan, it's already part of his domain that he has direct control over.

Tarkin weilded extreme power, and was in charge of a decent size defense fleet for his territory, as well as the Death Star itself. He was arguably the third most powerful man in the Empire. Also, this wasn't some willy nilly decision. It was a planned attack, as Alderaan held some major opposers to the Empire.

Also, when the Millenium Falcon enters the remains of the Alderaan system and they spot the TIE fighter, Luke, Han and Obiwan wonder how a one-man fighter could have gotten that deep into space, hardly how one would describe the Core Worlds Region. Again, tho, exactly how one could describe the Outer Rim.

The range of a TIE Fighter alone, without an added hyperdrive, is only a few KM from it's base. There were no Imperial bases there, and it would surely not be at Alderaan. It doesn't matter where they are in space, space is huge. A fighter getting that far from any Imperial base is impossible, hence their surprise.

I submit that the EU has overblown the importance of Alderaan in the GFFA, and that Alderaan is NOT located in the Core Worlds, as the EU wouldhave us believe, but in the Outer Rim as is hinted at in the movies.

It's located in the Core worlds, according to LucasFilm, so that's good enough for me. Perhaps the importance has been blown up (no pun intended), but you don't read, or accept, the EU anyway, so what does it really matter? People who accept all of the EU as canon (IE: Me) just swallow it as a way to keep the old EU familiar to the movies.

 

Why do you ask Tessa? Are you still lookin' for love?

Just kidding. You make great points in your post.

 

Why do you ask Tessa? Are you still lookin' for love?

It's still in her sig.

 

There's a possibility of Alderaan appearing in Ep3...perhaps there may be some kind of explaination then?

"let's go to Alderaan. You know, that planet IN THE OUTER RIM"

 

Did anyone think that she didnt come straight from coruscant? she could have been originatling from a different planet that was in the outer rim... diplomats do tend to not just got to one place and then come back... it was probably a stop on the numerous list of other planets.

 

If I remember correctly, Leia had finished a diplomatic mission on Ralltir, and was heading back to Alderaan. It would explain her being on the Outer Rim anyway. And as for Tarkin destroying a planet out of his influence, remember that he was a extremly high-ranking official, and he probably had the authority to destroy Alderaan, even though it was a Core world.

 

Well, she was going to Alderaan next, she just didn't make it.

 

"He was arguably the third most powerful man in the Empire."

Uh, guys? You're making this more difficult than it needs to be.

Tarkin is a Grand Moff, not simply a regional governer. He is the most powerful person in the military forces. Palpatine is kinda like the president, he has the ultimate say as commander-in-chief, but he's not really in the military. Vader is his right hand man, but does show respect for Moff's position, and abides by his commands (at least in the movies.)

"The only thing I would comment on is the idea that Tarkin just wouldn't blow up Alderaan unless it was in his territory."

Tarkin's territory is the whole empire! He even has a floating battlestation that he can take wherever he wants. When he comes into the "territory" of a regional governer, he need not ask for permission.

"Another point is that one of Grand Moff Tarkin's titles is Governor of the Outer Rim Territories, and I hardly think he would simply advance on a Core World, without the Emperor's permission, and the permission of whoever was governor of that region."

"It was a planned attack, as Alderaan held some major opposers to the Empire. "

Guys, the Death Star was designed to destroy planets! There's a reason why it's called the Death Star. Tarkin said they rule now rule by fear, "and fear of this Death Star." Tarkin was just itchin' to try his new toy out. It was he who proposed tesing out the laser on Alderaan (actually, he "forced" Leia into giving him a "military" target, which he planned to destroy after Alderaan anyways.) Vader didn't even know what Tarkin was talking about when he first brought up the idea, and he never seems to have much input throughout these scenes. Tarkin killed several birds with one stone (Death Star?)

1) Showed "the full power of this Death Star" after a successful test
2) Removed a planet that was clearly against the Empire, and was very influential
3) Used Aldreaan as a bargaining chip to get information from Leia
4) provided a clear example to other planets who would go against the Empire

As cold-hearted and ruthless this action was, it was a tactically obvious move for Tarkin to make.

This is all based on what was onscreen. If you guys are referring to anything that happened off-camera, then I offer this. Which do you think is more likely. Palpatine (having given Tarkin a powerful weapon and a mandate to use it) says "Go out, look for a planet to destroy, and call me before you actually push the button," or "Go with this technological terror and spread fear throughout the universe." Remember, Palpatine had just disbanded the senate, meaning he was going to do whatever he wanted to do. Why should he care about the fate of a few planets are are against him anyways?

 

I see sort of where you are coming from, but it looks like you are drawing way too many conclusions from unproven statements.

 

Sounds really convincing, EmpressPalpatine. But Tarkin also says: "Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration.". Why blowing up Alderaan, then, if it's in the Outer Rim? Would THAT be an effective demonstration? And in The Radio Drama Vader says, that "Alderaan is one of the foremost of the inner systems...". I'm quite sure that Alderaan is/was one of the Core Worlds.

 

"you are drawing way too many conclusions from unproven statements."

If you'd be so kind to point out these problems, I'd be happy to explain more. This stuff seemed pretty apparent to me.

 

I like your theory EmpressPalpatine. Anything theory that shows the EU is stupid is a good one.

 

Vader is his right hand man, but does show respect for Moff's position, and abides by his commands (at least in the movies.)

Not really, EU or Movies. Sure Leia makes a comment, but it isn't really true. It was just Tarkin's station.

Vader didn't even know what Tarkin was talking about when he first brought up the idea, and he never seems to have much input throughout these scenes.

Vader's dialogue was edited in this scene, which is why he sort of seems out of it. I don't recall anything about him not getting what Tarkin is saying though.

 

" Not really, EU or Movies."

At what point did I use EU, and at what point did we stop using movies as canon?

"Sure Leia makes a comment, but it isn't really true. It was just Tarkin's station."

And your proof for this not being true is? Exactly what was Tarkin's station?

"Vader's dialogue was edited in this scene"

And what dialogue was this? I have difficulty using deleted scenes as evidence over was is actually seen onscreen. However, if we were to use such scenes, then you should see this

Star Wars obscurities: Episode IV: A New Hope: unused footage
--------
BA53 - INT. DEATH STAR - CORRIDOR
Darth Vader and a stormtrooper commander stride down one of the long Death Star corridors, followed by several aides.
COMMANDER
We've started to search the spaceport at Mos Eisley. It's just a matter of time before we've found the droids.
VADER
Send in more men if you have to. It's her hope of that data being used against us that is the pillar of her resistance to the mind probe.
COMMANDER
Until then we must waste our time with Governor Tarkin's foolish plan to break her.
----------

Is this the dialogue you are referring to? It seems clear to me that Vader is following Tarkin's commands.

Furthermore, sticking to the movies, Tarkin seems to talk Vader down, reminding him of his "ancient religion" demanding him to release his Force choke, and yelling about Vader's "pointless bickering." He also calls Vader "My old friend." I can't imagine a lower-ranking officer getting personal with Vader in that manner. A higher-ranking officer speaking "candidly" to a subordiante (in this case, Vader) makes more sense.

"I don't recall anything about him not getting what Tarkin is saying though."

When Vader cannot extract the location of the rebel base from Leia, Tarkin talks of using an alternate form of persuasion, and Vader replies "What do you mean?" Later, Tarkin is the one talking to Leia about Alderaan, and gives the order to fire. It's not that Vader doesn't get what Tarkin is saying, just that Tarkin is the one coming up with ideas, and getting the people under him, including Vader, to implement them.

At no time does Vader countermand or contradict Tarkin's orders, and Tarkin is always shown as the person giving orders on the Death Star. in fact, Vader seems to be little more than a foot-soldier. While Tarkin controls the Death Star, Vader...

1) Follows troops into rebel corvette
2) Interrogates Leia
3) Holds Leia while Tarkin talks to her
4) Flies tie-fighter into battle

These are not things that high-ranking generals (or what-have-you) do. Tarkin is giving orders, and Vader is following them. Do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?

I'm not sure what your evidence is, or where it came from, but if you would explain your reasoning a little better, I'd be glad to hear it.

 

Ah, but Alderaan seems far too important for an Outer Rim planet. It IS part of the Republic, in the PT, and the Outer Rim is simply the Hutt's territories. Remember Shmi saying that the Republic didn't have any jurisdiction over Tatooine?

 

But Tarkin also says: "Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration.".
Aye, that does sort of throw a wrench in the gears of this theory. Considering we only hear of a few planets in ANH, and two end in "ooine", it's probably reasonable to assume similarity is meant to be inferred. The audience hears Tatooine is the planet furthest from the bright center of the universe, and unconsciously assumes Dantooine is, also.

 

Of course, if the galaxy were viewed from above, Dantooine would be at the 12 o'clock part of the Outer Rim, while Tatooine is at about the 4 o'clock.

 

But Tarkin also says: "Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration."

Well, considering there was a Rebel Base on Dantooine at one time, we can assume that, like Hoth and Yavin IV, Dantooine is otherwise uninhabited, thus assuring that any demonstration would be ineffective. Alderaan, however, is a populated world, and the impact of it's destruction would be felt throught the galaxy, remote or not. Had Tarkin destroyed Tatooine, word of that would have gotten out as much as word of Alderaan's destruction. I think what Tarkin meant was that Dantooine was too remote from any inhabited system.