Where were Kreia,Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus during KOTOR 1?

The Three Sith Lords dominating the affairs that occur in KOTOR2:TSL seem to appear out of nowhere in TSL, even though Kreia/Darth Traya is Darth Revans former Jedi Master and it seems Darth Sion was also a former jedi student of Kreia's before becoming the Sith Apprentice of Darth Nihilus in KOTOR2, but where were they at in KOTOR1? were they all already turned to the Dark Side of the force and working for Darth Malak?

Or were they in training at the Sith Academy on Korriban when Darth Malak was defeated by Revan and the Star Forge was destroyed by the Republic fleets? i get the impression that Darth Traya was training Sith on Malachor V during KOTOR1 under orders from Revan and did not know that Malak was defeated until after it happened, Basically before Revans memory was lost he ordered her to train Sith and force users on Malachor V and after he defeated the Republic then he would bring them with him to fight the True Sith in the Unknown Regions but after getting his memories back and returning to the light side he changed his mind and did not contact her because he knew she would be defeated in time along with her foolish apprentices.

 

Sion was the Sith student of Kreia, after the Triumvirate was formed. Kreia says he came from the Korriban Academy.

 

Drinking heavily.

 

With Kreia seemingly out of the Revan loop, perhaps she went off to seek new apprentices....having meditated and looked into the future and saw a Sith Order beaten and a Republic/Jedi Order decimated and ripe for the taking. Her plan being to wait out the storm and take over the galaxy in the aftermath.

 

Smoking cigarettes and watching Cpt. Kangaroo for all I know.


If the comics are out long enough, we might just find out. They might be right in front of our eyes and not know it.

 

Fictional characters hardly ever know that they are in front of a reader's eyes
Sorry, couldn't resist.

My theory is that Sion and Kreia are Lucien and his mother. Where were they during KOTOR1? I'd say they were preparing their push at the galaxy from the Malachor Academy, unbeknownst to anyone. Although I'd suspect that Sion spent a lot of time wandering the galaxy, getting beaten up.

As for Nihilus, I'd say Nihilus was created as a "transporter accident twin" of the Exile at Malachor and then remained in the Academy until events were set in motion (Kreia set him/her loose to "kill the Force"). Honestly, I was disappointed that the rather creepy Sith of the bunch was the first to die, I had suspected a bit more tension there. Thinking about it, the mask does a good job at hiding the features which would look eactly like those of the player character, a trick that already worked with Revan.

 

Sion wasn't Nihilus's apprentice; Visas was. Sion and Nihilus were partners, if anything.

 

Kinky.

 

The ultimate Visual Guide clearly says that Sion was the Sith Apprentice to Darth Nihilus, that is why Nihilus himself isnt doing anything until he attacks Telos, because Sion is doing his dirty work for him, i think that Visis Marr was supposed to become Sions replacement because Sion was already dead and wouldnt last much longer anyway, although Nihilus could have tried recruiting the souless Jedi Exile, that wretched creature would make a fine apprentice/slave if Nihilus could control it.

 

Sion and Nihilus did that actually when they booted her out of there little clique.

 

Did they really strip her of the Force? Because I thought she had use of the Force from the moment KOTOR 2 began, or was that just her leaching off of the Exile?

 

I think they are supposed to have stripped her of the Force during the cut-scene where she 'sufferred...indignities.' However, I think she regained it sometime before KotOR 2. I always thought that Sion, Nihilus, and Traya were serving Revan and Malak off-screen, though I could easily see Traya deserting from Malak's forces when he 'killed' Revan.

 

But Kreia was regaining her use of the Force during KotOR 2 because it had been stripped from her by Sion and Nihilus.

I'm unaware of anything in the game that supports the Jedi having cut her off from it.

Edit: There may be something, but I'm surprised I don't remember it... since I'm usually good when it comes to these games, having scoured through the .tlk files many a time.

 

The hag wasn't stripped of the Force, it was more they employed techniques against her from which there was no defense -- for her, as she said. In any case, if she was, the bond she shared with Exile certainly refreshed it, like refreshing a web page by pressing F5 at the top of the keypad. Some might call it keyboard. Will let you know if I care.

And five years is a long time. The Sith war endured nearly 3yrs before that. Kreia wasn't just sitting around, she didn't lose her eyes from lack of natural vision overnight.

 

Kreia: "I was stripped of my power"

Exile: "It is simple. As she did, I was forced to survive without the Force. That is what she respects."

And they're just the two that came off the top of my head. I suppose it's possible to interpret them in such a way that Kreia wasn't stripped of the Force but... well, I don't know. It certainly seems we're supposed to believe she was.

That said, I don't think Kreia was ever *cut off* from the Force. I think Nihilus just stripped her of the Force skills and powers she had at the time, forcing her back to square one. Which is probably what you were saying... but I'd put that under having been "stripped of the Force". For practical purposes anyway.

 

If it was permament, well -- chucking a Sunrider is something that's specially trained, and only by those with the forte to even do it. And once fully done to you, it's not something you can undo yourself. After all, you're Forceless. Mmmm, Forceless, Homer would say. Just like what Vergie did to Jacen in Traitor. A temporary demotion.

 

I know what it says, but The Ultimate Visual Dictionary is wrong. Notice that it also confuses Atris with the Handmaiden at one point. The game supersedes an erroneous reference book.

 

Hmm... this raises an interesting conundrum which I've never actually considered before.

I always interpreted the cutscene of Darth Nihilus "stripping her of her power" to be more symbolic, about her being cast out of the Sith Order as more of an act of humiliation as opposed to physically cutting off her ability to touch the Force a la Ulic Qel-Droma. I roughly equated it with Nihilus usurping her position as the Master and her "power" being more a reference to her position within the Sith Order as the remnant's de facto leader rather than the loss of her actual personal Force ability. I generally saw the concept of "living without the Force" as being somewhat more figurative, Kreia having to hide in the shadows and conceal who she truly was for fear both the Jedi and the Sith wanted her dead. Rather like if any Jedi during the Empire ever "turned their back on the Force". It makes me think back to the scene where she kills the Jedi Masters on Dantooine. I generally took that as her "coming out" and revealing that Darth Traya never died and that she had simply been hiding until she was ready to take her revenge on the people, Sith and Jedi alike, who had humiliated her.

In light of all that, I saw her interest in the Exile as more of a symbolic relationship. Kreia having known first hand what it was like to be humiliated and stripped of her authority, cast out and left to live a life that was but a shadow of her former glory; the Exile having been stripped of her power in a much more literal rather than figurative sense. As a result of that, I actually found Kreia's "sympathy" for the Exile to be quite perverse, as it felt like a typical case of someone trying to equate their own comparatively trivial loss with the much more genuine and serious loss of another. Rather like when someone who has been in hospital for something relatively trivial says "I know how you feel" to someone else who has lost a limb or something, to be met with all round "like hell you do" criticism because of their over self-pitying.

I treated the line about Nihilus having abilities "against which there is no defense" as another comment toward it being an act of humilation, that in spite of her power, she was still metaphorically "powerless" against him, as he had become so powerful even Kreia with all her strength was brushed aside. I felt that was a more demeaning act of punishment, knowing she was still "powerful" but that even that was nothing compared to power Nihilus commanded.

I've never really thought of her having lost her actual Force connection before... that would certainly put a different spin on things. I'm not sure whether I would prefer that, whether if Nihilus simply cut her off from the Force if that would seem more humilating or not. I've always liked the idea that despite her power she was still weak before him, thinking of her as having lost her power feels as if it may somewhat lessen that.

 

Whether is was the force or simply some intangible sense of honor and station...it is the second time.

The whole basis for Kreia's behavior was that the Jedi betrayed her and then the Sith do it to her too...which is why she's keen on "killing" the force.

Personally, I think it's alluding more to being cut off from a source of strength then to the force itself...with the Jedi, she was stripped of the bond of the Order...a strength that lies in that communion...with the Sith, she's stripped of he connection with the pain and suffering of Malachor...the heart of the darkside power in KOTOR2.

It's less about being "blinded" to the force...ala Ulic Qel-Droma...as it is knocking away the anchor to which your practiced use of the force has been established...Kreia then turns to the Exile as a source, as she was similarly anchorless.


____________

*Epiphany*

Perhaps this unusual circumstance could be related to Living Force/Unifying Force theory.

The subjects are "exiled" from how they contacted the living force...which would be fellow Jedi and lingering pain of Malachor conversely...but are not blinded to the overall unifying force...which is why they are not unable to restore it.

 

I like the way you think Zorrixor.

Though I think Obsidian were just trying to explain why you meet a Sith Lord at level 1 or whatever.