Who are the all-time masters of the lightsaber forms?

This is just something I've been thinking about. Who do y'all think is the best at each and why?
Here's the list I have for now:
Shii-Cho:
Makashi: Dooku
Soresu: Obi-Wan
Ataru: Yoda
Shien/Djem So: Anakin
Niman:
Juyo/Vaapad: Mace

Also, on a side note, I wish they had someone for forms 1 and 6 in the movies, or at least on one of the tv series so that we could see them fight. Books are great for explaining the mindset of the duelers but aren't so much with the motion.
PS: you can put more than one for a form if you feel like

 

Kit Fisto used Form I.

Everyone used Form VI but the survivors.

 

Didn't Kit Fisto practice Shii-Cho? Also, Niman was the diplomat's lightsaber fighting style and was only good for batting away a few laser blasts at a time. Most of the Jedi who died at Geonosis were only really schooled in Niman.

 

I know, but I just felt that if Kit was a real master of form I, then he would have lasted longer than five seconds against sidious. And there has never been a niman master who held their own in any fight I've ever heard of.

 

I'd count Luke. Is he considered V?

There's got to be some good Niman folks out there. My impression is that most Niman practitioners during the CW era weren't hardcore lightsaber wielders, and therefore went with Niman because they didn't want to devote the time to mastering one of the other forms - it seems like a Form you can 'coast' on. But I imagine that a true master of Niman - someone with a good deal of skill in each Form (not on the level of a master of the other forms, but pretty solid) would be a force to be reckoned with, capable of drawing on various techniques in any and all situations.

 

Luke's considered a Form V user in RotJ though Luceno has said he intended for Luke to be using Vaapad in TUF.

As for the master of Form VI, I'd say Coleman Trebor.

 

yeah, and he couldn't even stand up to a guy with a blaster (albeit a very good guy with a blaster)
I think it would be master Drallig. he's supposedly mastered all 6 forms and is ridiculously hard in the ROTS game

 

That's the point. Form VI last I heard was the weakest form and only used by diplomats who didn't want to dedicate themselves to learning other forms and those who mastered it on the path to mastering other forms.

 

I think fans have a problem with the fact that Form I and Form VI suck.

But its the truth.

 

yep, that's pretty much it, maybe I was just deluded in thinking that the forms should all be approximately equal

 

Yes, for those who know the Street Fighter games.

Dan Hibiki practices Form VI.

Ryu practices Form VII.

And Grand Admiral Jello notes that Form I is the basis for all the other forms. So, any Jedi who practices other styles have pretty much mastered Form I.

Kit Fisto just had a fondness for old fashioned sword swinging.

 

JelloThat's always been my understanding of how the Forms worked. If anything, most characters seem to encorporate large elements of at least one other Form in thier particular fighting styles. For example, Kenobi and Skywalker both used a lot of acrobatics, perhaps reflective of Obi-Wan's early Form IV training. Lord Vader (post-suit) seemed to encorporate some Form II precision into his bladework to compensate for his lack of mobility.

Did we ever get a Form pegged down for Palpy? We can safely say that he beat Yoda, and I still think he threw the fight to Windu.* If so, he'd have to be considered tops in whichever Form he practiced.

Also, are we counting Vapaad and Juyo Differently? If so, I'd say Maul.

Of course, we are baised towards Clone Wars-era Jedi, as they are the only ones that we've seen fight at the highest levels. The Jedi and Sith of the New Sith Wars had to be extremely proficient, perhaps to a degree even greater than that of the Clone Wars Jedi. As such, Kas'im might deserve placement somewhere.

Much of the same applies to the NJO. The war with the Vong saw widespread saber-on-staff combat, but we know so little as to who fought and who used what Form. Jaina is supposedly very good, though we have yet to really see here in a "classic" duel, and Jacen seems to have gotten pretty ridiculous. Then there is, of course, Luke. Hopefully, the rest of LotF will shed some light on the matter.

All told, we simply don't know enough to compile a fair list.

*I understand that the verdict is still out here. Suffice to say, further debate here will produce little.

 

I think Palpatine is said to have mastered all of the forms just like Yoda.

 

Officially, Palpatine has mastered a unifying form.

He can switch from stances and styles at will.

Which is really really difficult if you know anything about Martial Arts. Because you're supposed to be able to do that as the ultimate sign of mastering multiple martial arts.

Mace also mastered all forms. However, Juyo had been lost by this time so technically Yoda was a lesser saber duelist than Mace.

 

I fixed it for you.

 

QFT.

The one part of the EG of the Force that I didn't like was them trying to explain what certain moves were and how the forms worked. Just keep it sort of vague except maybe one is more defensive and one more offensive and one mixes Force abilities, etc. There's no reason to say; "Obi-wan's limb hacking at the end of Episode III was a Form V move known as Whackalimb among Masters of the Art".

 

IA. The forms don't really make sense. Focusing soley on saber-dueling, bolt-deflection, bludgeoning, etc etc seems quite frankly like a way together yourself killed the first time you encounter something other than what you focused on.

Which is why I don't get the (inverse and fandom) hate on VI - it seems like the only form that recognizes the need to adapt to different situations.

 

I thought that Qui-Gon in TPM was more of a slash/hack form I user than an agile whirling tornado of death form IV user. So he could have been that, if he hadn't been pegged as form IV.

I think that the notion of forms has just widened the EU further, which can only be a good thing, as it allows more people to find their niche in the wider galaxy. This is one of mine.

 

But that isn't what Niman is. Niman basically operates on the assumption that the Sith are gone and a Jedi doesn't really need to know how to fight against an opponent wielding a lightsaber. It forgoes dueling in favor of emphasis on blocking blaster bolts. True, the Jedi came up against non-Force Sensitive opponents wielding blasters more often than they did Sith or Dark Jedi but, as the entire prequel trilogy testifies, the Sith are never really gone- just waiting to have their revenge.

 

I think that's Soresu (III) you are describing (emphasis on blaster deflection).

 

I think the idea is that the Forms are based on Philosophies like Real World Kung Fu is the way they later retconned it to be.

Form VI is like Bruce Lee's Jeet Kung Do, a mishmash of all the other styles, except it sucks.

 

I guess I always saw it as more of an ability to use variety. To be able to adapt to new situations or face a typical situation in a more creative way. But if it is as you describe then I can see why it supposedly sucks.

Poor VI - I've always felt like it gets a raw deal. I'm it's lone champion.

 

The all-time masters are more likely than not characters from the 30,000 years of Galactic that have not been explored by the EU.

 

Canonically, it's more like they take the bits and pieces of existing forms that are useful for most situations and then teach them all as individual moves. In other words, there's no overarcing philosophy to it or connecting moves.

You are the Jack of All Styles but the Master of None.

And any Master of Any Form will beat you (barring Form I)