Who is the MASTERMIND of the "New Sith"?

How are the "New Sith" connected?


Let's see, there have been four main "Sith" so far of the NJO/Legacy era...

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/d/db/Vergere2.jpg]
[image=http://images1.wikia.com/starwars/images/9/97/Lumiya1.jpg]
[image=http://images1.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/f7/Japanese_joinerKing-Jacen_Solo.jpg]
[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/3/34/SwLegacy6.jpg]


How do they all fit together?

-We know Lumiya somehow knew Vergere.
-We know Vergere was by herself for a year during the invasion.
-We know Lumiya knows about there being other Sith.
-We know Krayt started training his new Sith soon after the invasion.


Probably what happened is one of the main four above sent a "dark-side signal" throughout the galaxy. Similar to how Luke sent a "Jedi call" throughout the galaxy during the Swarm War.

This Sith probably organized a master plan.



Which we see start to take place when the Solo children and young Jedi go on a suicide mission, of which only Jacen is chosen by Vergere to be saved. Vergere had also earlier started to heal Mara, pregnant of Ben Skywalker. If Anakin Solo hadn't so bravely sacrificed himself, Jacen could have been the only survivor of the Myrk mission. Vergere went on to start teaching Jacen the ways of the Sith, survive by embracing the pain and choosing the fates of others. Then she sabotages Alpha Red, and sacrifices herself for Jacen to protect him from the Yuuzhan Vong.

Lumiya then picks up the rest of the training a decade later, though Jacen had already come a lot closer to it by himself. She shows him the tassel prophecy, and finishes teaching him the Sith meaning of sacrifice. After Jacen makes his sacrifice of Ben's admiration by killing his mother, Lumiya sacrifices herself to protect Jacen from Luke Skywalker.

Jacen becomes Darth Caedus, and having already seized control of the GA, is going to start a campaign of terror to crush all in his path. He hopes Ben's hatred of him, when he learns the truth, will turn him into a powerful Sith. He also messed around with the mind-reading device during the Dark Nest crisis, and could completely resist joining with a Killik hive mind, unlike the others of the Myrk mission. Even though he could meld as easily with the minds of the others, and had a unique connection with his twin sister Jaina.

Darth Krayt , enraged at the Yuuzhan Vong being given mercy by Luke Skywalker and the GA, starts training his Sith for a hundred years on Korriban. It seems typical that to become a full Sith, the apprentice usually sacrifices the master they hold dear to achieve full status. They believe in the Rule of One, the Sith order itself, kind of like Killik society.


What can be said about all this? WHO is the Mastermind?


Vergere and Lumiya both sacrificed themselves for Caedus, and Lumiya seems to have some knowledge of a greater plan beyond themselves, and Vergere recited Caedus' special destiny often. Either could be the mastermind, but they seem more like pawns to me.

Then we have Vergere saving the Yuuzhan Vong by sabotaging Alpha Red, but Darth Krayt enraged that the Invaders were given any mercy at all. It seems contradictory at first, unless we realize they are both pawns in a much larger game than either of them. Obviously, the mastermind didn't think the Yuuzhan Vong had finished their role yet. They are eventually stopped, with the help of Jacen Solo. And Darth Krayt later does exploit the galactic hatred of them into starting the Sith-Imperial War, to seize galactic power and the Imperial Throne.

Also, Vergere saves Ben Skywalker, though she later detests the idea of a Jedi dynasty, seems as if saving Ben's life was part of the plan. Darth Krayt also wonders why he chose not to destroy the Skywalker line when he had the chance. What transformed Jacen Solo into Darth Caedus was the sacrifice of his relationship with Ben, who he is also coveting as an apprentice once Ben is consumed by hatred of Caedus for his mother's death.



Al

 

Nah, Jacen's a tool & he's also most probably Lumiya's tool in her orders from Krayt to mess with the Skywalkers.

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/e/e1/Vong_Jedi.jpg]
Fit Vongerella into your theory. I think it'd be fun!

 

But if KRAYT is the mastermind, and Vergere's in on this like it's been hinted at, why would Krayt let her SAVE the Yuuzhan Vong, when he says in his holocron that he was furious they weren't destroyed?

And Vongerella could fit in very easily. She was probably trained by Krayt, and sent on Caedus' orders as a decoy to distract the Jedi from the REAL Sith threat. Which is being trained on Korriban, and trick them into thinking any remaining Sith followers like Lumiya would be out in the far reaches of space instead of within. Vongerella is also clearly a pawn, as a Yuuzhan Vong she must have been experimented with to regain sensitivity to the Force, and not be crippled like Onimi.

 

Obviously it would be really cool if DR & DHC were going to soon make some kinda effort to tie all these Sith together, so with that hypothetically....I'd imagine that Vergere was a wild card, she'd known Jacen but not Krayt or Lumiya. She's the catalyst that had Jacen questioning the Lightside & nature of the force but she died & he went out looking for his own answers with Aing-Ti Monks, Jennessari, Fallisanni, etc.

Krayt & his Sith were hiding out or Korriban, Lumiya happened to drop by, got tested, got accepted, got a mission & went out to corrupt Jacen's already messed up mind.

Flow-walking? It's good for watching the past. It's good for imprinting an image in the past & leaving little more than what accounts for a voicemail to speak out the image. As far as using it to make plans with other Sith Lords or establish dominance in a Master/Apprentice relationship with them, I don't think that flow-walking works like that. It's got less functionality that a Sith holocron.

 

Here's my theory:

- Lumiya was what was left of the Banite Sith lineage.
- Jacen took his stupid pills at some point and became a really rather lackluster Sith after being hoodwinked by Lumiya.
- Vergere was never a Sith and is just being badmouthed by Lumiya.
- Krayt thinks Jacen and Lumiya are idiots and wants nothing to do with them.

There's no master plan. You have one manipulative Sith Lord, her manipulated Sith dupe, a much better Sith Lord working on his own plan, and Sir Not Appearing in This Picture

 

You're no fun!

Come on, for the Sith there is ALWAYS a master plan!

 

There is no "the Sith." They don't all go to the secret meetings and cackle about how evil they are. There are Sith, and they each have their own agenda.

Personally, I just don't want the DN/LotF stupidity to taint Legacy. I just want everyone from that era to die quietly without reference elsewhere.

 

Yes.

Lumiya and company seem based out of Ziost, too-- are there any mentions of her mucking about on Korriban, which by now are Krayt's stomping grounds?

 

But what about Darth Vectivus?

 

What about him? He was almost certainly a Sith of the line of Bane that found himself a special lair of his own, where an echo of his existence lingered on. One could imagine that there could be several places like his asteroid on the galaxy, places powerful in the Dark Side, yet hidden in shadowy corners of the galaxy far from the usual Sith homegrounds. Perfect places for the Banite Sith during their long hidden existence. His only connection would then be that Lumiya used his lair as her hiding place. It could have been known to Vader and she could have learned about it through him, or she could have found about the existence of it through the Sith lore she collected.

 

^___^ With the story of Vectivus by Lumiya... I imagined him with a cup of tea in his nice house with his Sith's friends XD

I like the idea about Vectivus. Another sith way. And it's weird that Vectivus and his buddies disappear so easily... there must be a heritage or a lie.

 

There's no real proof that either Vectivus was real or that Vergere was a Sith, is there?

I mean, I tend to believe both in some fashion (or, after a fashion really), but we just have Lumiya's say-so for them which is not the most compelling source...

 

The idea that there is a single Sith Mastermind is a bit flawed. Unless one is completely, overwhelmingly more powerful than any and all comers, a Sith is likely to kill their superior to advance themselves. This is a flaw that Lucas himself stated about the Sith and the Dark Side. It's one reason why the Banite Sith Order and the Rule of Two were so successful, less enemies to watch and protect yourself against while still consistently advancing their knowledge and power.

 

There is no proof that Darth Vectivus was actually a ruthless Sith Lord either, he could have been a really nice person like Count Dooku was, a charming perfect gentleman with class and respect and culture but also someone who had a natural temper that took over when he was provoked, this is how my brother Michael is, a former Marine that never swears at all and is very polite and classy and hold doors open for everyone and then if you are rude to him for no reason or act like a punk his personality changes quickly and he has been known to grab someone and slam them up against a wall and politely ask them to be nice and cut the BS or suffer the consequences for it, he is nice but has a ruthless edge in him when provoked by rude people, otherwise he is very charming and friendly, Vectivus could be nice and friendly but totally ruthless with rivals and enemies of his, a man of passions that loves his friends and family but harshly deals with his enemies, people who are the kinds of people that deserve what happens to them and would not be innocent types that get caught in the crossfire.

Like the Don Corleone of the Dark Lord's of the Sith, a gentleman loved by his friends and family and feared by his enemies but most of them would be criminals and galactic scum so he deals with them accordingly, just not ruthless with regular people that are nice and that have families, a kinder more understanding Sith Lord.

 

Yes, it is typical for Sith to turn on each other. Yet Krayt has Sith willing to die for him. Lumiya and vergere both died for Caedus. It shows there is something else at work here.

 

Yeah, Dooku was a real peach.

 

It actually makes sense that Caedus is the mastermind. I tend to look at books like everything in the book, every little detail is in the book for a specific reason. If you take a good look a LotF you will see the clues. In betrayal for example we have Luke dreaming of a man that doesn't exsist. This man is none other than Caedus stepping into past. Also at the end of Betrayal we see Luymiya talking to what appears to be a force ilusion talking to Luymiya in Vectivus place and then it says something very odd to her, he says he will hate you for what you are doing. Yet again more proof that Caedus is in fact planning his rise to power with the other sith. Caedus is the mastermind there is no doubt about it

 

We can count Caedus as a Banite Sith?

Because if flow-walking Caedus is in charge of Krayt, he's a Banite Sith by association.

I think we all know Waru's the Mastermind.

 

Yet Caedus is so much more powerful than the others owing to fact that he is Anakin Skywalker's grandson. He also has the abilty to lead/meld with others, mess with minds and wipe memories, flow-walk and obeserve/change and set the past and future at will and he can hide incredibly well when he choses to. this makes him a perfect candidate for being the Mastermind behind the Sith

I completely agree with your theory Darth-Ghost

 

Nom Anor

 

How about Palpatine.

Krayt is a product of an Imperial/Sith "brainwash/incubation" statis program, upon release from which, he would be a loyal servant to the Sith Lords or would set about the restoration of the Sith himself.

Given the flaws with Anakin, perhaps Palpatine set about plan "K"?

Palpatine then instills the job of protecting this project to Lumiya, who patiently oversees it, especially following the deaths of the clone Emperors. She realizes her charge is the last plan left in place by Palpatine to keep the Sith in true power.

In the meantime, Jacen grows into the emo punk he is, and with the advent of the invasion, Vegere returns to the scene. If she truly was Sith, she was likely atleast casually aware of the Sith in the galaxy and of Palpatine...she investigates what remains of the Sith plots to find Lumiya overseeing a statis tank. From this they hatch their plans, open the statis tank...Vegere adds a little Vong engineering to their Sith Warlord...and then they consider how best to bring about the downfall of the Jedi...knowing that the Emperor long had an interest in the Solo child, Anakin...they plan to kidnap and corrupt him...but when he dies on Myrkr, the plan changes fast, and Jacen is chosen. More philosophical than his brother, it takes more time to truly turn Jacen...including an evident "self-sacrifice" by Vegere to further drive the wedge between the philosophy of Luke and the Jedi, and Jacen...which inevitably would lead to darkness.

Eventually, Lumiya can leave her project on Korriban to train and organize others, as she searches the stars for other adepts, and formulate her meeting with Jacen.

and the rest is written.

This is the final go from Palpatine. I wouldn't be surprised if under Krayt's Vong armor, you'd find a brand that says "Product of Palpatine Sith Works".

And talk about a way to make the Empire tow the line. If Krayt can in anyway validate his rule by claiming his rise was ordered and prepared for by Palpatine himself!

Oh yeah!

 

But I seem to recall Lumiya talking to Darth Vectivus at the end of Betrayal? Or was that just the shadowy figure? That whole sequence in Betrayal was bizzare, coupled with the fact that it hasn't been touched upon since.

 

It was a force "image" of Jacen. I think it was him flow walking, but, Lumiya talks about him disapearing so who knows.

As the the main question. I think Vergere was a servernt of Palp to start with, but, once she came back she did what she did to Jacen for her own means. I think she was part of it due to the fact that her "art of the small", thats such a crap title, reminds me of palps. In the epiii novel, it talks about how dooku looked upon palps, abi and annie with the dark side and described them. It fits for me. I think lumiya knows of vergere as being another of palps toys but they never had any contact with each other. I think the verger did what she did to Jacen because she was unable to find anyone that she wanted to be atached to, so she tried to build herself a companion. Failing that she tried to make herself a martyr in his eyes so that she could live on (metaphor) I think lumiya knows krayt sith and had some relationship with them, but i dont think she is part of it. I also dont think jacen will live the LOTF series, and he wont have anything to do with Krayt.

 

I think she was conversing with a flow walking Darth Caedus that she believed to be an illusion.

She definitely wasn't talking to Vectivus at the end of Betrayal though. It was the "evil Jacen".

Nelani (sp?) spoke with a Vectivus ghost/illusion though.

 

Well, se got some more information about this topic in INFERNO, don't know if we can post it yet, even if it is hidden