Who is the Sith'ari? (Darth Plagueis spoilers)

"One who has freed themselves from all restrictions has reached perfection, their potential fulfilled. Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny. Imagine it."- Yuthura Ban in Knights of the Old Republic

At the end of Darth Plagueis, Palpatine proclaims himself to the be the Sith'ari as he kills Plagueis. He certainly seems to fit the profile, destroying and remaking the Sith after becoming the master, destroying the Rule of Two (IMO) with his numerous Dark Side adepts, Emperors various body parts, Inquisitors, and other Dark Siders in addition to Vader.

However, official canon from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia confirms Darth Bane as the Sith'ari. I personally think that Palpatine has the stronger claim, by forging the Sith into the dominant force in the galaxy. I don't think that Bane ever reached his full potential.

On the other hand, I don't see why there has to be one Sith'ari. For me, that makes things much less interesting, and I like to think there is almost always a Sith'ari and a Chosen One in existance, the embodiments of the Dark and Light side of the Force, at all times. If they realize their potential or not is a complete other issue.

The Sith Emperor from TOR, Bane, Palpatine, and Krayt all have nearly equal claim to the title in my eyes, and I imagine there are others who could qualify as well. So who do you think is the Sith'ari, and does there have to be just one?

 

I definitely think it's either Palpatine or Bane. The Sith Emperor, I don't think, would qualify, as he failed to truly do any intense lasting damage to the order (although, I suppose, you could say the Sith from Knight Errant are descended from Vitiate's order, an order that would spawn Bane, which would spawn Sidious...)

I think Bane might be considered the "perfect" Sith. For most of his life, he seemed to put the ideals of the Sith over his own (of course, that system was completely setup by him). Still, he seemed perfectly content to serve as the prelude to the destruction of the Jedi, until the very end of his life, where he tried to weasel out of it and bodyhop to Zannah. In his relatively long life for a Sith, I definitely think he reached his full potential, and also built a rather large base of intelligence that was probably, at least in some form, used all the way down to Sidious.

Palpatine is the one who actually brought those plans into fruition, and is likely the most powerful Sith Lord to have ever lived... but by Bane's terms, he would probably be seen as selfish, as he likely had no intention of ever being replaced by Vader. The Rule of Two seems to be pretty hypocritical by nature; they're supposed to put the well being of the Sith first, to insure the strongest is always master, but they also praise selfishness. Hmm.

Ultimately, I could see Bane, Plagueis, Sidious, and maybe Vitiate (am I correct in saying that he largely revived the order that Bane and others descend from?) could all be the "Sith'ari", at least in their era. Revan mentions something about how the Force, in an effort to keep things balanced, will occasionally birth a "champion", something that is reinforced by the Plagueis novel, so I suppose it could happen with a dark side user just as easily as it could a light. The fact that Plagueis had shifted the balance so far to the dark just resulted in the most powerful Force user to ever live.

 

The Book of Sith will provide some answers...

That's all I'm saying.

 

Dan Wallace is the Sith'ari?

Probably should have seen that one coming.

 

The Sith'ari is more of a legend than a true prophecy in my opinion. We don't even know who prophesied his coming in the first place. Sidious is the best shot (since the point of the whole prophecy in KotOR was to link it to the movies), but Vader, Darth Ruin, and Bane may also qualify.

As to Emperor Vitiate:

I very much hope that this whole Sith Empire stuff was not only created to be destroyed during TOR is some kind of canonic walkthrough. I hope this ends being a new era with the Sith and Republic vying for control of the GFFA for at least 500-1000 years. We don't have any clue about this period, so why shouldn't there have happened a lot of action during this time?

A few centuries of peace should lie between the fall of the Sith Empire and the rise of Darth Ruin's Sith. But even then - among Ruin's followers could have been some secret survivals of the traditions of the Sith Empire.

 

Well, the Sith are lousy at prophesy to begin with. And they flatter themselves no end. I doubt a Sith Lord has gone by that hasn't fancied him or herself Sith'ari. The winner will always be the Sith that does the most galactic damage. I'd also say that cunning bordering on genius is a big part of being Sith'ari. Bane, and Palpatine fit the bill best. Vitiate's story isn't over but he doesn't really even seem to be a Sith anymore so he's off the list. I love Krayt but compared to Palpatine, Krayt is a second string Sith Lord.

 

Actually, Bane makes the least sense. The man had his own comrades killed only to survive them a few decades - and then he was killed. How exactly did restore the Sith to glory, or damaged the Jedi/Republic?

He is the first in a line of Sith Lords that ended with Darth Sidious, but nothing more, in my opinion.

Vitiate makes little sense since he was already alive, well, and immortal during the first KotOR.

 

Part of the prophesy is that the Sith'ari will destroy the Sith thereby making them stronger. Bane did just that. Just because Bane didn't mete out revenge against the Jedi personally doesn't make him any less of a contender.

 

Exactamundo.

Sorzus, Bane, Sidious... practically every Sith has ordained to beatify themselves at one point or another.

Indeed. Palpatine thought so to.

 

I think Bane is more likely the Sith'ari... but I do have to say I like the idea of Sidious as Sith'ari as well. For no other reason than I see the Sith'ari in that case being like the Anti-Christ and obviously the Chosen One is the Jedi Messiah. So it all boils down to these two titanic metaphysical figures duking it out on the spiritual level throughout the saga.

 

i don't know about this
1.he didn'tseem to have a way to prolong his life like Plagueis did.
2. he was over 40 years older than anakin
3. he said 'Darth Vader will be more powerful than either of us."

 

Interesting. I have to ask: does Luke have anything to say regarding the Sith'ari? Just a yes or no would be good enough for me.

I'm not sure that Vader could qualify. He was a tool used by Palpatine, until Anakin reemerged and fulfilled his duty as a Chosen One. And I agree that the prophecy in KoTOR was meant to refer to the movies, but canon seems to be a fluid thing, with anything that is not provided a clear cut answer able to be changed on a whim (even some things with clear cut in half answers that fell down a reactor shaft seem to be changed on a whim...)

Agreed. I think Vitiate would only count if his Empire lasts a few hundred years in conflict with TOR.

True, the Sith do love having their ego trips and thinking they are the most important Sith Lord to ever come along, but some do have legitimate claims to being the most powerful Sith Lord ever, at the time that they lived. I'm not so sure Krayt is second-string: the dude came back from death, and came so close to winning it all. He remade the Sith, and unlike Bane, lived to see his reformed order dominate most of the galaxy. I haven't played TOR, and won't get to (stupid lousy computer), so I am not aware of how Vitiate no longer seems to be a Sith. Unless he went lightside, that indicates to me that he is something new, which could be interpreted as a Sith'ari.

Exactly. This is why I think that it doesn't make sense to have one Sith'ari and one Chosen One. The Dark Side is always trying to assert dominance through the Sith'ari, while the Light Side attempts to keep the balance through a Chosen One. However, since people are fallible, have some hidden part that is good even when that doesn't seem possible, or keep screwing up, the plans of the Dark and Light Sides can get messed up. The future is always in motion, even from the view of the Force.

 

He had a way. Cloning. In one of the Bane books (think it was the last one), Bane says that he would even use clones, if he had the time to create them before fighting Zannah.

And yeah, I honestly have no idea how he intended to keep Anakin on a leash... my guess is that he was just playing with fire, and had Anakin not been scarred, would have been killed by him. I definitely don't think he ever intended to be killed by Vader though.

 

I don't see how Sidious destroyed the Rule of Two. Yes, he had other candidates waiting in the wings (Maul, Tyranus, Vader), but he always came back to the Rule of Two.

Just think: When Sidious tried to seduce Luke to the dark side in ROTJ, he didn't ask Luke to join them. Instead, he asked him to kill Vader and take his place. (The holo conversation in ESB proves that Sidious and Vader were plotting against each other).

 

Not specifically, no, but when Plagueis discusses prophecies in general, Luke says it's wrong to dismiss something just because it's not literally true, from which I suppose one can extrapolate that Luke thinks there is power in words, so to speak, even if they are "just a myth".

After reading the Book of Sith, personally I'm leaning toward the great metaphysical clash myself. The Exiles already knew of the myth of Mortis back when they first arrived on Korriban, so the Jedi prophecy has been there for a long, long time. And on the opposite side, the prophecy of the Sith'ari dated back to Adas. So this clash of prophecies about ultimate beings was there right from the very start of the Dark Lords of the Sith.

Not that everybody agreed with Palpatine, as Plagueis believed it was Bane.

Of course, Plagueis was dead by the time Palps declared victory.

Darth Sidious would disagree...

 

Maybe Krayt isn't second string but he didn't instill any fear in Cade. I can't see one single Jedi bringing down Palpatine or Bane alone. Krayt's plan worked for more than 10 years but Palpatine's rule was still effecting the galaxy in the Legacy era.

Vitiate strikes me as a Dark Side abomination of kinds. Not a single entity. He seems to have shattered his own mind and soul in the rite that made him immortal.

 

I agree, Plagueis even says as much, I paraphrase, but it's something like 'how could Tenebrous not seen that he is the culmination of their work, the one who would destroy the jedi and fulfil the goals of the Sith'

All the Sith would see their efforts and their vision as the vision which will succeed. Respecting, but eschewing the attempts of other Sith lords who preceded them. Plagueis notes that Tenebrous had laboured on a plan with his master to create the maxichlorian virus, but later abandoned it. Even though Bane is revered/ deified by his intellectual descendants, each one seems to believe they are the zenith of collected knowledge and power.

The undoing of the Sith lies in question 'how much power is enough to wrestle power and maintain control'... later Sith in the line may have thought they had reached that point...but their apprentices may have thought differently, considering their approach to be more likely to achieve success.

 

I agree that Bane is the archtypal 'perfect' Sith for his line. He lived by the code of he introduced. Zannah probably believed in these ideals and stuck to them too. Possibly even the third Banite Lord, Cognus did too because she rejected her Apprentice Millenial for questioning the rule of two too often.

That said, later Sith have made significant accomplishments, such as:

Tenebrous' Master opening the rend in the force, allowing the dark side to build and be felt by the Jedi
Plagueis and Sidious tipping the balance of the force to the dark side after a significant amount of time tilted in the light side.

I am sure each of these feats would be ample justification for that Sith to proclaim themselves the Sith'ari...

 

I'm pretty sure Bane was the Sith'ari.

 

I think the Sith'ari is the Rule of Two itself.

THINK ABOUT IT.

(The CSWE says that it was Bane, straight up, but that's boring, so I'm going to ignore it. )

 

CSWE also says Jedi ghosts are selfish pigs who ignore the will of the Force, so yeah, I ignore most of what it says too.

 

I always thought it was Vader - his joining the Sith was the catalyst to their greatest heights, and his leaving the order destroyed it for good.

I mean, the first thought that came into my head: this is Anakin right? The Jedi Chosen One and the Sith's Chosen One are totally the same guy.


I mean, it worked for Raziel.

 

Continuity abhors a paradox!!!

EDIT: Anyway, yeah, I think when it was first written it was just meant to be Anakin. And I very much liked the implication that "Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny" ultimately = rejecting the dark side entirely.

Honestly, my main gripe with the CSWE on this issue is that it removed all ambiguity. It's much more fun when we can make an argument for numerous characters.

 

This is what I thought, too. Although I rather like the idea of every Sith that manages to tie his or her own shoelaces without external help cackling "I AM THE SITH'ARI!".

 

Darth Bane is the Sith'ari. He destroyed the Brotherhood of Darkness and remade the Sith with the Rule of Two, which proceeded to do what Brotherhood could not; destroy the Jedi and rule the galaxy.

Darth Bane destroyed the Sith only to make them stronger than before.

Darth Bane is the Sith'ari.