Who makes a better Sith? a male or a female?

I was about to ask this on a thread but thought it went better here. Is there a reason that only men have been DLOTS? is the gffa controlled by dead white guys too? can a female, who typically can show more emotion than a male, i said typically, be a great sith? when you read any kind of writing about the differences in men and women there is always something about logical vs emotional stuff. does that apply as well with being a sith? is the very nature of woman too passionate and emotional to be sith?

 

Zannah and Belia Darzu were DLOTS, Lumiya is a self-proclaimed one, and Kreia, Maladi, and Talon were Sith Lords, though not DLOTS.

 

passion can only get you so far,if your to passionate to exocute your plan its a liability,but you can't go by typical you have to go on a person by person basis.

 

There may be more male Sith than female, but I think the percentage of quality characters is higher among female Sith than male. I mean... Ludo Kressh? Darth Bandon? Crado? Simus? Darth Ruyn (he counts because he has the worst name ever and dies a page after he's introduced)? How did these losers ever get to be Sith?

Whereas Lumiya, Talon, Zannah, Bastila, Yuthura, Traya, and Belia Darzu all kick ass.

 

To be fair, Crado is not a Sith name. It's a Cathar name.

 

Don't forget Githany. So we've had three Dark Ladies in the whole meaning of the word (don't listen to the ones calling Lumiya self-proclaimed), one de-facto that never used the title (Traya) and one with the title but without the exclusive power (Githany). Other than that we know of at least four that can be called high-ranking Sith Lords (Talon, Maladi, Bastilla and Aleema) and numerous lower ranking Sith.

While the old Sith Empire (and probably the elder Sith culture) seem to have been patriarcal in nature, with no women in leading position, this has not been the case in the modern orders.



/Charlii

 

Traya was definitely DLOTS, she made sion her... and killed Nihilus, plus she trained them both. So for a time she was in command.

And I think that its a matter of context. Individual character design should trump all other concerns. When making a villian you need to make them delectable in their own way.

 

For the moment Traya is not considered a Dark Lord, because she has never been called so in any canon material. Nobody disputes that she was the de-facto leader of the Sith for a few years, but she was a little strange even for a Sith. If she decided that she did not want to carry the title of Dark Lord (or Lady) then we should respect that




/Charlii

 

i guess i should have framed it better. more male recognizable sith that female. yes those are great female siths, but outside of here, are they recognizable? is it just there are so many great characters out there? besides that, that is not really the argument i am looking for, i dont think we need a count. what makes a great sith and does it come down to the sex of a being or the characteristic nature of the being?

 

I was just talking about the worthlessness of the characters, actually, but if we're going to bring up the sheer ridiculousness of some Sith's names...

...Freedon Nadd?

It's a pity we'll never get to see him meet up with Master Soon Bayts.

 

Well isn't the whole point of the Sith Personal Power? Its the reason no one debates Malak and Revan being Darths. Even though their legacy might not have been of Palpatines line they still qualify through idealogical and methdological similarities. Traya was de facto DLOTS and even though she was never called it she was still Darth Traya. And de facto for the sith is as good as reality.

Its like this. A jedi can be a knight for years and be more powerful than everyone on the coucil but he is never master until the council says so. A sith can off his master and no matter what the other sith sayh he is a master. Same deal. You are DLOTS when you run a sith organization.

Darth Traya is Btw IMO the best sith in the EU due to her complexity.

 

Compared to the hundreds of male Sith Lords that are already out there, I don't think we know enough about female Sith Lords to make a fair judgement.

 

There have been several female sith, but none of them have been shown in the movies.

 

People tend to think of Sith as male because in the movies, that's what they are - Dooku, Palpatine, Vader, Maul. So, for that matter, are the most prominent Jedi - Kenobi, Yoda, Luke, Anakin, Jinn, Windu. A large part of it, doubtless, is that these are movies: visual. Lightsaber battles should be high entertainment, and fights are always more impressive between men. Males are, as a general rule, bigger, faster and stronger than females. Try to imagine Jinn and Kenboi being taken on by a woman instead of Darth Maul. It wouldn't work as well.

 

I think that a gender neutral, a hermapthrodite, or a eunuch creature/character would make for an interesting Sith. I know hutts can change sex to suit their needs, but there has to be other species or unlucky folks that fit the bill.

 

Males are, as a general rule, bigger, faster and stronger than females.

Well I dunno about faster, but I could be mistaken. Still that's a great lead in to my own point
Still, a warrior woman holding to the female archtypes (instead of a woman beig made into a beardless man with boobs) would be very fascinating, especially if you take those archetypes and twist them into Sith qualities.
I found Asaaj to be very interesting in this regard.
Lumiya may well be my favorite EU character (I say may as I may be temporarily forgetting another shining luminair). She also ranks high just as a SW character in general for me and, frankly, that's hard for an EU character (who's at the mercy of a plethora of authors who may write them differently each time) to do.
Shaak Ti also had some good moves while playing on the nurturing archetype as well (protecting Palpatine).
All in all, gender does not a better Sith make. But as far as a literary and story-telling devices are concerned, females make the best baddies/warriors when played to their archetypes strengths and not the strengths of the male archetypes. I wouldn't sell females short

 

I'm not that familiar with any of the female Sith. Though I did like Dark Jedi Asajj Ventress. And Vergere was all right. I haven't read LOTF yet, but Lumiya sounds very intriguing.

I would definitely like to see more female Sith though. It was a missed opportunity to insert one into the PT. As much as I liked Christopher Lee as Dooku, the role could've easily been played by a woman. Perhaps Maul too.

 

Well, the world record for fastest sprint by a man is quite a bit faster than the record set by a woman, if that helps. I believe one of the factors is the wider set of the hips; it's necessary for childbirth, but it reduces the efficiency with which a woman can run.

I would agree. Chilling as Robert Patrick was as T-1000, I thought Kristana Loken's T-X came off as even more evil.

 

For me the Pants Suit killed T-X, she would have been twleve times as menacing in a conservative dress. Or a sun dress.

Great female villians that pose a physical threat are hard to come by outside the world of anime. But they do exist. The problem is that female threat is tied up in emotional manipulation and sexual predation, thus there is a funadamental disconnect between the threat and the menace.

A male villain can be threatening and spine chilling, a female villian will more likely turn out to be alluring.

Plus there is a huge aversion to a feminized villain falling victim to a male protagonist. Its throwing. If I were to single out the female villian that stand out in my mind I would say that, Meryl Streeps/audrey hepburns character from the manchurian candiate. The dangerou combination of psychosexual tension and threat is what motivates the character.

 

Great female villians that pose a physical threat are hard to come by outside the world of anime.

Indeed. But a physically imposing female plays more towards the male archetype and not female. I also notice, in general, when they play up a woman as a strong masculine warrior, they also heavily accentuate her breasts to compensate. Not always of course. Mainly I'd say because a majority of the viewers wouldn't find a heavily butch female warrior physically appealing and in a visual medium, visuals obviously sell.

The problem is that female threat is tied up in emotional manipulation and sexual predation

Aye, though I would say that comes heavily from a male perspective too. Women who 'play games' or are 'teases' and women who flock to the good-looking sex symbols. However, those characteristics also play to a more female archetype/psyche of intellect and beauty used foul. An abused intellect is using smarts to control people whereas an abused beauty is used as a lure and a trap. Used together and a man can fall easy prey. I believe Allston was playing up these traits in Betrayal which is another reason I immediately clicked to Lumiya. The Intellect is clearly there, also shows in her supposed stance to use the Dark Side for reflection and other benign purposes. But her beauty and seductress qualities show in not only her physical description, but also in the way she reclined on the couch etc. There was also a lovely and brilliant symbolic moment when she retrieved the whip from her thigh. Not only is it practical from a cyborg standpoint, but it also shows that within her beauty (indeed many men are attracted to legs) lies a lethal force.
Still, this is very much from a make standpoint and from the angle of the female villain assaulting a male hero.
How would an ideal female villain assault a heroine? I'm reminded of Snow White actually. The witch also embodies other perversed female characteristics: Jealousy and wrath (woman scorned and all that). Her dark beauty was also played up which was nice.

A male villain can be threatening and spine chilling, a female villian will more likely turn out to be alluring.

Agreed. Again, I think it's a matter of the archetypes. The male is about force and fright: Aggressive/offensive qualities. The female personifies beauty and allure. The male will force you to his side whereas the female (or intellect) will coax you to your side. Is it any wonder, then, that many fans speculated that Anakin would get angry at something and jump headfirst to the darkside or that Palpatine would in some way force him (I recall any number of theories that included Palpatine lightning Anakin into submission at some point or besting him in a duel or Force battle)? This also plays into speculation of Palpatine taking over the Republic by force. Instead of male or female, I'd say the best villains have androgenous psyches. The best and most dangerous of the male and female.

Plus there is a huge aversion to a feminized villain falling victim to a male protagonist.

Well the male is 'strong' where the female is 'weak' so it's a form of bullying in many people's eyes. Also, in many times the male is stronger (abusive relationships come to mind) so it is preying on the 'weak'. But a clear female villain has made her choices and if she can hold her own against the hero, she deserves what she has coming to her. Keeping in mind a hero who will bully even male villains lack a sort of moral high ground.

Plus there is a huge aversion to a feminized villain falling victim to a male protagonist.

Never saw it. I really ought to correct that

Actually, while writing my ideas about female villain archetypes, another example came to my mind: Catwoman in Batman Returns. Beauty, a bit of intellect and deception, a bit lethal (whips always strike me as a very feminine weapon don't kill me, Indiana Jones!), and definately plays into the woman scorned.

 

Well, I can't speak for the novels, but in the Jedi Academy/Jedi Knight games the female villains are always over the top sexpots who act ridiculous, and no man alive would be intimidated by a hot woman who acted like a purring sex kitten, especially a Jedi Knight. A female Sith would be believable if she looked the way a true female would look after being seduced by the Dark Side: twisted, nasty, wrinkled, yellow teeth and eyes, hunched over, etc. I picture the famous "Sith Witch" from the TPM Art Of book, or the revered clan female from The 13th Warrior. Basically, a female Darth Sidious, or someone who looks the way I always imagined the witch from Hansel and Gretel when I was a kid. A terrifying, evil, old woman, not eyecandy in a push-up bra, covered in tattoos and leather. Downplay her fighting skills, focus on her malice and cruelty, and you've got a believable female Sith.

 

Given that Kreia took down what was left of the Jedi Council and almost made the Galaxy deaf to the Force, I'd say female Sith can be quite effective. I think it may partially stem from the fact that Lucas never used any female Sith, or even any female villains except for Zam and some members of the Sepratist Council(who died so quickly I'm not sure she'd really count.)

 

Fixed.

 

Gethzerion.

I'd personally prefer a Zsinj-like Sithchick. Not obviously decrepid or eye candy. Maybe a plump, older woman who blends in but can command respect and fear (if it serves her purposes) despite her grandmotherly appearance.

I am rather bothered that every normal-looking woman in the movies is good, and the evil ones are all hideous. Even Zam is ugly "deep down". Lucas I think has said he doesn't agree with making women villains.

 

Sariss was a B.A.M.F. especially in the DS ending where she became the DS B.A. Kyle's Apprentice.

Sounds like my kinda female villain (or any villain), the stuff that Force Ghosts fear.

And I think we need to see the Sit Witch implemented in the actual Sith Order. Perhaps somewhere in the Plaguies or Bane stories we're supposed to be seeing sooner or later.