Why are the Rebels in ANH and ESB all humans?

In the first 2 OT films, all the Rebels are humans, except in ROTJ, in which we see some aliens in the Mon Calamari and Sullustians. Why is this? In the PT, the majority of the people in the Senate are aliens, and humans and aliens are Jedi Knights. In fact, the Jedi Council is predominantly alien. Why the lack of aliens in the Rebellion? Perhaps the Rebels we see in ANH and ESB are from Alderaan under the leadership of Leia, but then Biggs is from Tatooine, and Wedge is supposedly from Corellia (EU). Anyone else have an explanation?

 

It was easier at the time to minimise the amount of alien rubber heads needed. By ROTJ, Lucas really wanted to show that the Rebellion wasn't just made up of humans, and made a point of having an alien (Ackbar) leading the raid, along with several other alien types.

 

Well, there's your real-life explanation.

My in-universe explanation for it is the same one I use for why Mon Mothma is only in RotJ. Vader says there's a Rebel fleet massing at that point, so maybe before then, the Rebels were mostly spread throughout the galaxy in a confederation of cells. The cell Leia was in could have been composed of humans from Alderaan or the surrounding area.

 

Well, the Empire hated aliens, and a lot of them were imprisoned. I'm sure for those not imprisoned, it was hard enough to find the Rebellion (the Empire couldn't do it) and also for some to escape.

 

The Empire did away with aliens. That is why Chewi; is in the OT. This is from my perspective of course.

 

They did away with aliens and that's why Chewie's there? Can you explain that.

 

Humans are also the prominent species in the galaxy, I think their numbers in the GFFA are larger then other species' as well

 

The Empire did away with aliens. That is why Chewi; is in the OT. This is from my perspective of course.

I'm confused.

 

I don't think humans are that prominent in the GFFA. The Mos Eisley cantina was probably representative of a cross-section of the galaxy.

 

See, that's why I never bought the whole 'Palps is speciest'.
The Empire used the help of aliens more than the alliance did up until RotJ.
Bounty hunters and what not.
In fact, the PT has gone a way of showing Palps isn't speciest at all. I mean, look at Maul.
'Yeah! But he was just a tool!'
No self-respecting (and I use the term loosely) KKK member would ever use a person of a different race as an apprentice. Tool or not.
Especially considering Palps could have trained anybody to fight as good as Maul.
'But he became speciest after he took control of the galaxy!'
Right. I'll wait for E3 for proof of that.
I 'unno. I just never bought that. It was the EU's way of explaining away the lack of rubber masks on star destroyer sets.

 

Because Palpatine's Racist.

 

The rebels were mostly humans because:

1. The rebels we saw in ANH and ESB happened to be from an area of the galaxy highly populated with humans,

or

2. The aliens didn't have the guts to stand up to the empire.

The imperials were humans, not because Palps was racist, but because the bulk of his army were cloned humans (stormtroopers), and it was easier and cheaper to have all imperial equipment designed for human use.

Just some of the ways I justify it in my mind....

 

My perspective would be that since Chewbacca will be in the next it could be possible that they show the slavery issue that has already been describe in his profile. Mabey along with Ackabar's race getting inslaved to. That would help out the signifagance of the aliens in the OT. None of them worked for the Empire. I hope that clarifies what I said a little more.

 

"See, that's why I never bought the whole 'Palps is speciest'. The Empire used the help of aliens more than the alliance did up until RotJ. Bounty hunters and what not."

But he is speciest, and has a definite preference for "humanoid" creatures.

He has no problem using aliens when necessary. I think Palpatine finds delicious irony in having aliens help him achieve his goals, which would amount to controlling the galaxy and squashing the aliens as a whole. It's like Germans who became Nazis, and subsequently started enforcing Hitler's orders against other Germans. In our own history, the U.S. Army hired indians to track Geronimo, and once found, all the indians were thrown into reservations.

The key difference is that only Vader and Palpatine are allowed to use aliens (or specifically designate others to do so.) It is by no means official Imperial policy. Every army and administration has engaged in back-door, elicit agreements to accomplish specific goals, especially in a time of war. You don't see Vader "deputizing" the bounty hunters. Once their job is done, they are off on their own - no dental plan, no retirement fund. You will not see a non-humanoid creature in an Imperial uniform. (Please, no references to Thrawn here.)

This point is made abundantly clear by Piett's comment of "We don't need those scum", which serves two purposes: First, obviously, is the speciest attitude that the Empire is well known for. Secondly, it shows Piett's confidence in the Imperial navy itself.

Vader, having grown up around aliens and having a certain latitude around Palpatine, appreciates the skills of these bounty hunters regardless of their species. He is very aware of their level of expertise, as well as the fact that they can "blend in" to areas where Imperial officers would stick out. (i.e. Boba Fett in Jabba's palace. Can you see a pasty-faced Piett trying to get around that place without drawing attention to himself? His "anti-speciesm" would color his every action, and would get him killed.)

Vader clearly isn't satisifed with the efforts of his own army, and there is ample evidence for this. If he's going to continue killing others for failure, I'm sure even Palpatine would prefer Vader eventually direct his anger towards non-humanoids whom aren't in the direct employ of the Empire, rather than high-ranking officers.

"In fact, the PT has gone a way of showing Palps isn't speciest at all. I mean, look at Maul."
'Yeah! But he was just a tool!'
"No self-respecting (and I use the term loosely) KKK member would ever use a person of a different race as an apprentice. Tool or not."

Point made, but Palpatine has limited options here. He cannot look for any kind of apprentice in the Republic, because most of them are identified and found by the Jedi Order. Thus, he would have to fly outside the reaches of Republic Space (which takes a lot of time), and find a Force-sensitive individual who is suitable for training as a Sith. Just because someone is strong with the Force doesn't mean that they would make a good Sith. There's no telling how many "candidates" Palpatine went through (read "killed") before he found Maul.

Also, there's no telling how long Palpatine intended to keep Maul as his apprentice anyways. When "the lost twenty" left the Jedi Order, this must have been Palpatine's wet dream (if not an event specifically orchestrated by him.) I've no doubt that Palpatine would have sacrificed Maul with Dooku when the situation called for it. ROTJ makes it quite clear that Palps was prepared to trade in his currect apprentice (Anakin) for a newer model (Luke). As stated earlier, Palps and Vader are willing to use non-humanoid creatures when it suits their needs, and no longer after that. While Palps is a speciest, he is also, above all else an "ends-justify-the-means" idealist. He will do whatever he needs to do to accomplish his goals, even if it means biting his tongue and going against his own preference for the moment.

To use

 

This point is made abundantly clear by Veers' comment of "We don't need those scum", which serves two purposes: First, obviously, is the speciest attitude that the Empire is well known for. Secondly, it shows Veers' confidence in the Imperial navy itself.

1. That was Piett.

2. The comment was directed at bounty hunters in general, not aliens. We don't really know what Piett's feelings about aliens are, but even if he himself is species-ist, that proves nothing about Palpy's attitudes. Militaries function better when you feed them propaganda and make them believe they are a superior force fighting against some definite outside threat, so it certainly would make sense for Palpy to indoctrinate the officers that way.

 

"The comment was directed at bounty hunters in general, not aliens. We don't really know what Piett's feelings about aliens are"

How can you be so sure, Ms. "There's more than meets the eye"?

"that proves nothing about Palpy's attitudes. Militaries function better when you feed them propaganda and make them believe they are a superior force"

A good point in and of itself, but I think that's taking a much more subtle view of Lucas' intention than was actually intended. To presume such a dichotomy of Palpatine doesn't make sense in the overall scheme of Star Wars. There's no real reason not to assume that the "pureness" of the Empire as seen in the films is not a logical extension of Palpatine's personal preference, especially considering the amount of control he and Vader personally held over those under their command. There are no non-humans in the Imperial Navy throughout the OT, and Maul is the only known "technically" non-human (though humanoid) who works directly with Palpatine in the PT (assuming you agree that Palps=Sidious). That being said, the Sith organization (read "Palps and Vader", or "Sidious and Vader" ) is technically a separate, if overlapping, organization to the Empire.

The sight of the bounty hunters provides a clear visual contrast to the "pureness" and monolithic nature of the Imperial crew, and this "picture" is further strengthened by Piett's comments. While your conclusion isn't unreasonable, I still don't think it is an appropriate conclusion. Otherwise, what's the point of having so many non-humanoid races contributing to the effort against the Empire in ROTJ?

 

MBJ, why won't you just admit you're always wrong and I'm always right?
Things would go so much smoother that way.
Or, we could combine our efforts, go half and half, and then Bib Fortuna Twi-Lek can always be wrong and me n you can each be right half of the time?
Let's start. Repeat after me (copy and paste if you will): Palpatine is not speciest. Not only that, but Wascally is one fine-looking man. Mmm mm mm!

But just for kicks, I'll see if i can't actually debate some points for once

It's like Germans who became Nazis, and subsequently started enforcing Hitler's orders against other Germans.

A more apt analogy would be Hitler using Jews. Speaking of which, if Palpatine has an entire army of humans at his command, why wouldn't he just start eliminating the aliens from the galaxy? Speaking of that, where would it end? Technically speaking, ants are a different species too. They just aren't sentient. So does he hate ants too? Wait, are ants even in the GFFA? Change ants to ducks. Beautiful.

In our own history, the U.S. Army hired indians to track Geronimo, and once found, all the indians were thrown into reservations.

Better analogy But still, Palps has absolute control. Why are aliens still running wild and free?

The key difference is that only Vader and Palpatine are allowed to use aliens (or specifically designate others to do so.)

The stormtroopers (who be unquestioning clones so you go by movies only I take it, noting you Thrawn preferences) had no problems hiring the snooty bounty hunter in Mos Eisley.

You don't see Vader "deputizing" the bounty hunters. Once their job is done, they are off on their own - no dental plan, no retirement fund. You will not see a non-humanoid creature in an Imperial uniform. (Please, no references to Thrawn here.)

No, but he hired them and offered to pay them. Both humans and aliens. If the Empire were truly anti alien, you'd only see Fett and Dengar there.
Why we wouldn't see an alien in a uniform is because of lack of rubber masks. For a better GFFA reason, maybe the Imperial technology could only suit humans? ('I don't think the Empire had wookies in mind when they designed her Chewie.')

This point is made abundantly clear by Piett's comment of "We don't need those scum", which serves two purposes: First, obviously, is the speciest attitude that the Empire is well known for. Secondly, it shows Piett's confidence in the Imperial navy itself.

It's made abundantly clear that he doesn't like bounty hunters yes. Otherwise he would have said 'Aliens? We don't need that scum!'

Vader, having grown up around aliens and having a certain latitude around Palpatine, appreciates the skills of these bounty hunters regardless of their species.

And someone could have easily reported Vader's actions to Palpatine who would not have been happy were he speciest. Anakin/Vader isn't speciest. He may be Tuskenist, but not speciest

Can you see a pasty-faced Piett trying to get around that place without drawing attention to himself? His "anti-speciesm" would color his every action, and would get him killed)

Considering Piett hasn't been proven to be speciest yet, nope.

Vader clearly isn't satisifed with the efforts of his own army, and there is ample evidence for this. If he's going to continue killing others for failure, I'm sure even Palpatine would prefer Vader eventually direct his anger towards non-humanoids whom aren't in the direct employ of the Empire, rather than high-ranking officers.

I honestly don't think Palps would care. He doesn't seem like the type to value life 'Wipe them out. All of them!'

Point made, but Palpatine has limited options here. He cannot look for any kind of apprentice in the Republic, because most of them are identified and found by the Jedi Order. Thus, he would have to fly outside the reaches of Republic Space (which takes a lot of time), and find a Force-sensitive individual who is suitable for training as a Sith. Just because someo

 

Heres a quick explanation:

You'll notice that in ROTJ there are a lot more non-human rebels. The Alliance was originally recruited from mostly human worlds. As the Alliance's influence spread more diverse Worlds joined the Rebellion.

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't consider the fact that it would make sense for the apparent racist stance of the military to reflect Palpy's opinions to be adequate proof that Palpy was indeed speciesist. Another possibility is that the WASPy nature of the military doesn't reflect the opinion of either Palpy or Piett & co. There are practical reasons why it works better for everyone in the military to be the same species. For example, there's a comment in RotJ about lambda-class shuttles not being designed with wookiees in mind (because they were built around humans). If the Empire used wookiees as shuttle pilots in addition to humans, would they have to spend the extra money to manufacture another set of shuttles built to wookiee specifications? It's the same reasoning behind NASA only accepting people within a certain height and weight range as astronauts - they use equipment that was designed with a certain group in mind because they can find more than enough qualified people in that group and don't see the point in spending extra money to admit others.

 

"A more apt analogy would be Hitler using Jews."

A good point. Thanks for making my argument.

"The stormtroopers (who be unquestioning clones so you go by movies only I take it, noting you Thrawn preferences) had no problems hiring the snooty bounty hunter in Mos Eisley."

Aw, but you see, I already covered myself.

"The key difference is that only Vader and Palpatine are allowed to use aliens (or specifically designate others to do so.)"

Besides, what's to say the "snooty bounty hunter" wasn't 1) a known and paid Imperial informant (such as the "Jews" example above), or 2) a masked human imperial agent impersonating an alien, a la Leia in ROTJ?

"But still, Palps has absolute control. Why are aliens still running wild and free?"

If he has absolute control, why are the rebels able to make him look so silly? Sorry, but the galaxy isn't quite his to do with as he pleases...yet. My comment of him being in complete control referred to the Imperial forces, not to the galaxy. His goal was to quash all of the rebel alliance (or at least a significant portion therof) in ROTJ, including the last known Force-wielder. This would have been the last major hurdle to galaxy-wide domination. Didn't you realize the ROTJ battle was the "last stand" for both sides?

Calrissian - "We may never get another chance at this."

"Why we wouldn't see an alien in a uniform is because of lack of rubber masks."



"For a better GFFA reason, maybe the Imperial technology could only suit humans? ('I don't think the Empire had wookies in mind when they designed her Chewie.')"

Sorry, but your quote serves my argument better than it suits yours. Obviously, the Empire didn't take anything of a non-human, non-bipedal form-factor into account when they designed any of their ships and outfits, because aliens were never intended to use them. (Though the AT-ST's were obviously built with a great deal of extra "headroom" )

"If the Empire were truly anti-alien, you'd only see Fett and Dengar there."

But it wasn't the Empire's call, it was Vader's, and no one other that Palps is going to slap Vader on the wrist for this decision. Hell, Palps may not have even known, or permitted it because he, too, clearly understood the danger in letting Luke run around. Desparate times call for desparate measures. (Vader's one saving grace, if any were necessary, could have been the fact that Boba Fett, a human, was the one who eventually caught the rebels.)

Remember that Vader also kills two admirals in ESB. Does that make the Empire "anti-Admiral"? No, because you have to understand that the whole point of hiring alien bounty hunters and killing admirals was used to illustrate Vader's desire to capture Luke by any means necessary! The kid gloves (and prosthetic hands) were off, so to say.

Remember Vader's directions - "No disintegrations!". Had these been any other rebels, there would be no need for bounty hunters, because Palps just wanted the entire rebel alliance destroyed. In this case, however, either Luke, or the bait with which to capture Luke, had to be "captured alive!" This is rather telling, especially when Calrissian later states - "He doesn't want you, he wants someone called Skywalker!" Vader wasn't even originally planning on taking Chewie and Leia with him after capturing Luke. Once they served their purpose, he was done with them.

"And someone could have easily reported Vader's actions to Palpatine who would not have been happy were he speciest. Anakin/Vader isn't speciest. He may be Tuskenist, but not speciest."

Actually, I never said that Vader was speciest. Also, who on Earth do you think is stupid enough to go over Vader's head? The man is killing admirals left and right, for God's sake!

"So he'd trade in hard-as-Hell-to-get apprentices like Pokemon cards, but would get antsy for Vader killing Admirals?
You

 

You should be!
Well, as it is I think we both make solid enough points to defend either side.
I call this a draw!
And no, not one of the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail draws ( ), but an actual draw, my worthy adversary (course, being a worthy advesary for me isn't saying much ).

EDIT - though I think I deserve some credit. I mean, it's rather difficult to prove something didn't happen or isn't so, y'know?

 

I'll accept your surren.....uh, draw, but you must reply to Will Tatooine be taken over by the Empire in Episode III (or sometime after)? within seven days, or you will die.

Oops, wrong movie. BTW, it's in 3SA, but there's no spoilers.

If you don't, then this debate will continue!

 

Based on all the other things Lucas inserted into the OT special editions, it seems like he could have inserted non-human pilots and troops into Tantive IV, the base at Yavin, Echo Base, and the REbel Fleet. ANd i believe there were at least two other alien types at the grand strategy meeting of the Rebel Alliance in ROTJ>