PT Why did Anakin think that it was unfair that he was on the Council but not a Master?

If I understand things correctly, there are probably several HUNDRED masters in the Order but maybe a dozen or so that are on the Council. All of those on the Council had to be a master first, except for him. If anything, it was unfair that he got to be on the Council without first having to reach the rank of Master.

Was Anakin hoping to get the rank of Master to get into the restricted section in hopes of finding something to save Padme (and why wouldn't be him on the Council allow him into the restricted section, even if he wasn't a Master?) Or was he just an egotistical brat who was throwing a pouty fit because the mean Jedi in the Council wouldn't give him the rank of Master?

 

I always took it that he was an egotistical brat and threw a hissy fit. I believe that in some or other EU (I can't remember where) it is because he wanted access to Jedi holocrons because he believed the Jedi were keeping things from him, and the ability to stop people from dying might be there, and I guess that can kind of work. But...

I think the line was intended to show how prideful he was, and to emphasise how much Palpatine's teachings were affecting him. In the following conversation with Obi-Wan he says to Anakin that " I swear to you, I didn't ask to be put on the Council . . ." and Obi-Wan responds: "But it's what you wanted! Your friendship with Chancellor Palpatine seems to have paid off." - the fact that Anakin is insulted by not being made a Master just highlights that he is happy to take the honour granted to him - that it is indeed what he wanted.

 

this. Others were masters and he felt entitled. That was my take.
But — I felt it was also a dig at palpatine since he pushed for Anakin to be his personal rep on the council and it wasn’t their decision. Anakin was therefore a pawn.

 

It was yet another reason for his fall, as Obi Wan put it when answering his questioning on mustafar before the final duel

ANAKIN: You turned her against me!
OBI-WAN: You have DONE THAT YOURSELF.
ANAKIN: You will not take her from me!
OBI-WAN: Your ANGER and your lust for power have already done that.

Lust for power. Not unlike young executives in modern corporations want to rise quickly because they want to feel powerful.

 

Anakin believes that he should be a Master for all of his accomplishments, including killing Dooku. To him it was an insult and another sign of disrespect towards him.

 

The key to this is that Anakin was not being added by the Jedi Council, nor was he being added as an actual member of the Jedi Council. He was being pushed by Palps to be Palps' personal representative on the council. This does not entitle Anakin to a rank he has yet to earn, or that the council feels he has yet to earn. Only Anakin's selfishness and ego led him to believe he was entitled to the rank of Master.

 

No, he was simply hoping of getting the rank of master by being put on the Council, since only Jedi Masters are elected into the Jedi Council. it's in the movie. As soon as Palpatine appoints him as his representative in the Jedi Council, he immediately jumps at the prospect of getting the rank:

"Me, a master?"

It was an illustration of Anakin's greed and entitlement, fueled by Palpatine.

 

I think they might be citing the novelization motive for that one.

 

Yes, thank you, that is where that idea is from.

 

In an effort to show some degree of sympathy for him... his appointment is kind of backhanded Imo.
Palpatine says he's making the appointment, Anakin assumes it is because he's qualified, the Council basically says, "We'll go along with this but only cause the Chancellor made the request not because you're qualified." From that mindset I can kind of understand why he might be insulted.

That's not to say he wasn't in the wrong. Anakin has always had a bit of an inflated opinion of himself. Back in Episode II he implies he thinks he could beat Yoda in lightsaber combat and later makes a point in saying he thinks he's ahead of Obi-Wan in skill. It all feeds into the same idea, he lacks humility.

 

Honestly, it makes Anakin look extremely stupid. Palpatine flat out says, “I’m appointing you to be my personal representative on the Jedi Council.” That means Anakin will act as Palpatine’s voice within the Council. Anything Anakin could say would be shrouded by ‘Is this him talking, or Palpatine?’

So no, why the hell would the Jedi make him a master if Anakin’s only there to be Palpatine’s voice?

 

Because he would be in the Jedi Council, which is reserved only to Jedi Masters. It doesn't make Anakin stupid, but petulant and greedy.

 

There is a solid question to be asked if Anakin would have taken it better if they had simply said no.
He seemed prepared for that possibility, he himself pointed out that the Council wouldn't take kindly to having the Chancellor make such a decision for him.
He probably assumed it was an all or nothing proposal. Either he's made a Master and placed on the council or not.
The fact that they allowed the Chancellors play but refused to give him the rank certainly surprised him. That combined with him taking it a personal jab at his qualification is what prompted the outburst.

Granted even if they had said no, and he presumably didn't lash out as he did, he still would have had Palpatine being the devil on his shoulder telling him that they didn't trust him.

 

He probably wouldn't throw a temper tantrum the way he did, but it would have fueled his resentment against the Council, since in his arrogance he would take it personally. But that was Palpatine's game. Wether they accepted Anakin or not, he would have gotten what he wanted: to pit Anakin against them and foster distrust between Anakin and the Council.

 

Surely Anakin realized that him being appointed to the Council wasn't that he was elected, but that Palpatine simply appointed him to it?

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He's lucky Arthur Godfrey wasn't on the Council.

 

Anakin was hot-headed.

 

Because being a Jedi Master gains him access to knowledge not privy to any Jedi Knights.

He believes there’s a secret in using The Force to save people from dying.

“I know there are things about the Force they’re not telling me.”
~Anakin to Palpatine

 

It didn't matter. Since the war began, Anakin engaged in many campaigns and was successful in nearly all of them. He's been losing faith in the Council because of what happened with Ahsoka, but he still believed in them. But this rejection is making him feel unappreciated. Palpatine has been planting the seeds of dissent and they are bearing fruit.

.

 

But he didn't know there was a way to stop people dying until Palpatine mentioned it and he was surprised to hear it. So he probably didn't suspect the Jedi knew how to stop people dying.

Anakin just seemed to constantly believe he was being held back by the Jedi.

 

Regardless of whether or not he thinks the Jedi Know, he is convinced it is possible, and said as much to Padme in AOTC, and at Shmi's grave shortly after. He's desperate, and knows the Jedi have knowledge they don't show to Knights.

It's not either or though. Palpatine has been stroking his ego for thirteen years, he believes he is qualified to be a Master and sit on the Council. Palpatine's appointment only further confirms that in his mind. The problem is his definition of qualified is completely different than the Councils. In his mind his military campaigns and skill with a lightsaber show he's a great Jedi. The Council seeks maturity, tranquility and peace. He kind of proves their point in his reaction. He really didn't deserve the appointment.

 

Exactly. He's a hell of a good fighter, but when it comes to him being a Master? It requires more than just how fast and cool you can kill something with a lightsaber.

 

He had also previously went to Yoda for advice and even though he didn't say it was Padme who he was worried about, Yoda told him "Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Rejoice for those that transform into the force."

It's no wonder he became a Sith after Palpatine told him there is a way to stop people from dying.

 

I think Anakin's turn was due to a mix of things, not just to save Padme-but all these other things that are being listed here that were kind of boiling underneath the surface as well.

Before his dream, already in AOTC he suspected Obi-Wan (and by extension the other Jedi) of holding him back. And honestly it's somewhat true-cos they have always sensed danger in his training, so that has always been in the back of their minds all these years. Then you got Yoda, who (although he was following perfectly the Jedi philosophy and understanding that everyone is one with the Force and not truly "gone") Anakin didn't feel helped him at all with his dream about Padme. Really there, I think Anakin just was disappointed Yoda didn't offer him anything he really WANTED to hear deep down.

THEN we come to this Master thing. I for one don't really like the explanation given in the novelization about him just wanting the rank so he can have access to Jedi archives that could save Padme's life. IMO that feels cheap, too 'surface level.' That's not a compelling enough detail that would lead someone down a spiraling path of despair and evil. I feel the way it was shown in ROTS was perfect-in fact the scene where he's appointed to the council, and his conversation with Obi-Wan afterward is one of the best scenes in the whole film. It really effectively shows where Anakin is with the Jedi at this point, and now they do NOTHING to quell his concerns-in fact they do the opposite; put him on council, but DON'T promote him-which he is insulted by and is just salt added to the wound of resentment he already has for them holding him back. Then on TOP of that, he's being asked to spy on Palpatine, his "childhood friend/mentor" more or less! If I were him, I too would be like "WTF guys!? Who ARE you?" I wouldn't trust them either at that point.

I know TCW series fleshed out his character more in a different way, but first of all-that series DID have moments where we still saw Anakin's darker, more obsessive side-so it was still there. But IMO seeing that series actually helps his turn to the dark side play out more effectively; he feels betrayed by the Jedi Council cos even AFTER all the incredible things he had done during the Clone Wars, they STILL didn't trust him!

To me, all this makes his turning to the dark side quite believable. And honestly it's not like he flipped a switch and was like "cool, I guess I'm a Sith now! Red blade, B!%@$ !!!" IMO Hayden did a fantastic job portraying the inner conflict Anakin was struggling with all the way thru from his initial turn, to his immolation scene-sealing the deal when learning of Padme's death.

I realize over the course of this post I veered slightly off-topic: but I always have maintained that Anakin Skywalker is one of the most well written and developed characters, not just of SW but all time!

 

Surely Anakin realized that Palpatine appointing him to the Jedi Council outside of how the Jedi usually appoints their members means he wasn't going to be automatically granted the rank of master?

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