Why did Jacen choose to be a Sith in Betrayal?

I know, I know, the title sounds...blunt? Obvious? Simplistic? But I'm serious.

I've just finished (FINALLY) reading Fury - don't worry; no spoilers here! - and it has me thinking about Jacen's character; specifically about his character during DNT and the first book or so of LOTF; the way he changed from the controlled man of those books to the nutter we see torturing his cousin and giving in to his rage in Inferno.

So I went back and re-read some of the sections of Betrayal where Lumiya's trying to appeal to Jacen and he ends up killing Nelani.

And I can see where Jacen's coming from. I get that he's willing to entertain the notion that the dark side doesn't inherently corrupt. I get that he'd accept that one can use "dark side" emotions and techniques to achieve good ends - he already does that in DNT, more or less. I get that he'd accept that it would be a necessity to take more active control over the galaxy to "save it" - he already did that by igniting war in DNT. I get that he'd decide it was necessary to kill Nelani based on nothing more than his visions; again, prior characterisation.

So I get that if he thought the only way to achieve all those ends was by becoming a Sith, he'd do it. What I don't get is why he thought it was necessary to become a Sith to do that. He's already doing most of it. Unless Lumiya offered him the super-sekrit-Sith-Spell-to-END-ALL-WAR!!1!!! I can't see why he'd need to do this.

Lumiya was all, "the Sith tradition will do what's necessary but the Jedi tradition won't," and Jacen's all, "okay, so I'll be a Sith then," instead of, "Um, I've already rejected most of the traditional Jedi traditions on that front, so unless being a Sith will offer me some practical advantage you're not currently telling me, I don't see what's in it for me."

Lumiya promises all these Sith techniques that will help him, but so far as I could tell, she never tells him what any of them are. The only one we've really seen is Battle Meditation and it's not even clear that that's solely the province of a Sith to learn. So again, back to, why did he decide to go all out with the tradition (he's never been big on adhering to tradition for tradition's sake) rather than trying to learn what he could and keep on being...Jacen Solo. Head Deciderizer of the Galaxy, maybe. On his way to corruption, maybe. But not agreeing to follow some arcane proscriptive tradition because a mutilated liar has promised him...sekrit magical techniques.

Don't get me wrong; I actually find most of Jacen's transformation interesting and largely fluid. But that seems like a really big step to miss...

Thoughts?

 

Jacen wants to find his "destiny" since he can't accept the fact that he's not destined for anything. The Prophecy of the Tassels is combined with the fact that the Dark Side/Sith are the last Final Frontier that he hasn't crossed. The possibility of becoming a Sith Lord, to jacen, is the one chance to pass out of his Uncle's Shadow.

 

On a subconscious level you may well be right. And I say this as someone who still believes that Jacen at the end of Traitor and Jacen in Destiny's Way was nothing less than pure hero.

But the Jacen I know from DNT and the start of LOTF is deeply, deeply pragmatic. He wanted to believe Lumiya; but he needed "logical" reasons to. Thoughout the start of his fall to the dark side he goes through mental gymnastics to justify everything. It seems odd he wouldn't ask for examples of how being a Sith would help him. Lumiya could provide some. Perhaps as riddled with logical holes as her assertion that Vergere was training him to survive which is a Sith trait while the Jedi train for self-sacrifice, only pages later to assert that Vergere's self-sacrifice was a defining attribute and proof that the Sith were capable of such things. Perhaps dumb, but lip-service none-the-less.

I find it odd that Jacen, so proud of his library of techniques, so arrogant about his abilities, wouldn't ask what awesome new powerz he'd get.

 

At the end of BETRAYAL, Jacen didn't want to become a Sith. He was basically saying he's willing to learn what Lumiya has to offer, which from his visions looked like it would soon be needed, and was going to learn the Sith traditions just like all the other Force traditions he has already learned. Which he was searching for in the first place because he believed the Jedi way was not enough, he felt unsatisfied with the Jedi lifestyle, as he had since the early NJO. He believed he had the self-control to not be corrupted by the Dark Side, he believed he wasn't already a damaged individual like Lumiya claimed Vader and Palpatine were. Like Lumiya said at the end of the book to herself, she had won. At the moment Jacen let down his guard and opened to the Dark Side was the moment that sealed his fall and began his transformation into a Sith Lord. All Lumiya had left to do was stir the conflict, tell Jacen what he needs to know, and protect him until he officially became Darth Caedus. Which she succeeded in doing as well. I'd argue Lumiya is one of the best, if not the best, villains in Star Wars.

 

And who many of those things in his vison are coming true? He's already in Kill Luke mode, and that was what he was trying to stop by killing Nelani. By becoming a sith Jacen made his visions come true.

 

But that's kind of my point - if he believed that Sith knowledge could save the Galaxy, of course he'd do it. But why does he believe that Sith knowledge will help him when he has no idea what that knowledge is because Lumiya never told him. She just generically promised it would help.

I mean, it wasn't his becoming a Sith that prevented him killing Luke. It was his killing Nelani. He didn't need to be a Sith to do that. Why does he need to be a Sith to save the galaxy through less-than-Orthodox-Jedi-techniques?

Currently I'm feeling more like DarthGhost's idea may be the right one. That at that point he was merely willing to allow Lumiya more breathing space; to learn from her like he learned from everyone else and see if those techniques would help him. At that point, without comitting to Sith Lordhood.

It doesn't segue perfectly with Bloodlines, but what about Betrayal does?

 

By trying to stop his visions he is insuring they come true, Anakin tried Jacens idea it didn't work to well. Jacen was in a dark side place when he had his "visions" more than likely they are frauds. Jacen is actively trying to kill Luke which he killed Nelani so he wouldn't have to.

If Jacen hadn't become a Sith the war would most likely have gone on for a little while but would have stopped fairly quickly, Mara would be alive, millions of others would be alive. Jacen has done nothing for the galaxy by becoming a Sith, except spread fear and destruction. Though that is all a Sith does.

 

That's my hope. I'd like for the final duel between him and the IWoD to talk about that as they fight, then have him turn off his saber Kenobi-style to end it.

*shrug*

 

But that's kind of my point - if he believed that Sith knowledge could save the Galaxy, of course he'd do it. But why does he believe that Sith knowledge will help him when he has no idea what that knowledge is because Lumiya never told him. She just generically promised it would help.

I think that the answer is that Jacen isn't sealing the deal as of yet. He's mostly interested in finding out what Lumiya has on the table. He's not yet ready to commit fully to becoming a Sith in the context of dominating the galaxy. He's only interested in learning Sith magic.

Lumiya knows this but Jacen doesn't believe she knows this.

 

And simply incorrect, GenAntilles, in relation to the war never happenning. Jacen Solo, Sith apprentice, won the war in Tempest. Corellia was on the edge of surrender. It was Lumiya who turned that edge into a Confederation. Jacen Solo had won the war - ended it at the Battle of Hapes.

If Jacen hadn't become a Sith and had helped Nelani kill Lumiya the Battle of Hapes would most likely not have happened. By letting Lumiya live he helped stoke the war to what it is now. What was just one planet whinning turned into a Civil War. A Sith spreads chaos and disorder, nothing more.

 

Actually, Jacen had a rather large hand in the creation of the Confederation because of his ordered assassinations of Bothans on nothing but Lumiya's word. The guy is a world class dupe.

Also, all the talk of visions, you make it seem like he'd only seen one possibility where Lumiya was executed and the asteroid destroyed and Ziost bombed. He saw many. So now we've got Lumiya dead, asteroid destroyed, and it remains to be seen of Ziost gets nuked. He's gone up against Luke once already and has been trying to kill him since Tempest. It remains that the only factor he didn't take into account with all those visions leading to him killing Luke was himself. He was the link keeping all of that together. Why? It's like he couldn't fathom, at that point, not pursuing S

 

The logic doesn't work, because no matter how cool and calculating he pretended to be, he was really selfish, power hungry, and looking for exactly this opportunity. Even if he didn't realize it himself.

This all goes back to his Forcegasm in TUF, which, as far as I can tell set the stage for all the events that came after. At that moment he achieved more or less ultimate power and a sense of enlightenment. One that he knew that he would never achieve again, though he would spend the rest of his life looking for it. So once it is over what else would Jacen do? He goes out and trains with everyone possible, so that he can become extremely powerful ? as close to the forcegasm level of power as he could actually get. At this point already, it is pretty easy to see that he has a lust for power, which itself is the first step to the dark side. So ten years after his Forcegasm, he is quite powerful, running around doing the "Jedi" thing. but he still isn't powerful enough. He realizes, perhaps only subconsciously, that there is only one more school of the Force that there is left to master: The Sith. He is a student of every other Force creed in the Galaxy. He has done what few Jedi even dream. But he still hasn't attained his goal. It was probably even a decision on his part to leave the Sith teachings as a last resort. So in his mind, in his lust for power, he really has no other option but to join the Sith. That just snowballs when Lumiya teaches him that there are more kinds of powers than just the Force. There is little she can teach him in ways of abilities, but she teaches him to look at the galaxy like it is his chess game. That it is his to control. That opens up even more power. He is not done controlling it yet, so we don't know what he would try next.

But the bottom line is that it is what he wanted, and all Lumiya had to do to convince his sad attempt at self control was to put up a weak argument, and say "Everything I tell you is a lie."

 

I often wonder how Jacen became such a logical, analytical type in the first place. Look at <i>Balance Point</i> in NJO, where he almost got his mother killed because he refused to use the Force, because he was so conscious of the idea that he could turn to the dark side. What happened to that guy? The one that worried about becoming dark before anything?

And I don't think <i>Traitor</i> was supposed to show his conversion to the Dark side, I think it was supposed to show him that he didn't always have to be worried about turning to the Dark side just by using the Force, so it seems like kind of a sad plot device to twist that into a reason for his fall.

 

Vergere twisted Jacen's mind. Whether she was a Sith or not, she did seriously change Jacen's point of view, which is why he's so very different from the Balance Point Jacen (which was a waste of a hardcover anyway). Unfortunately, Jacen still has that arrogance that he had originally back when the NJO first started, that he thinks he knows best and everybody else should listen to him ("I shouldn't use the Force, I might fall!").

And of course it wasn't planned for Jacen to end up like this when the NJO was being written. Sure, have the hero of the NJO fall and become evil. They just came up with it as a way to get more money as Sith sells, and evil Skywalker also sounds like a good idea, in theory at least, to the authors and Del Rey. In reality, that's a different story though. But almost anything can be retconned, so Jacen's just another victim, though he's also made his own choices, even if he's ended up extremely dumb.

And while the Corellian Inssurection was almost inevitable, Lumiya pushed it along a long way. Aidal Saxan could've agreed to a negotiated peace and kept Centerpoint from being used. Lumiya had her killed. Corellia was being blockaded into surrender? Lumiya arranges for allies to join Corellia based on completely fake evidence. Once the war starts though, then its too late to figure out whether it was real or not. Not to mention Jacen and Lumiya assasinating almost every important Bothan on Coruscant, as Jacen thought they had killed the World Brain when it was actually Alema (accidentally though).

Basically, it comes down to Jacen being a moron. Lumiya offered Sith techniques that could help end the war. Jacen was so distracted by the ideas of ooh, shiny new techniques, he forgot everything else. Lumiya kept Jacen indefinitely distracted by saying Jacen needed a sacrifice, until Jacen accidentally ended up with one, by killng Mara he sacrificed his relationship with Ben. Jacen doesn't realize that Lumiya's been agitating the war he wants to stop, not even when it turns out GAG codes were used to steal an old plan to invade Commenor, and then that old invasion plan was redressed to look like a modern GA planned invasion. By the time Jacen became an official Sith lord, whoops, Lumiya got herself killed by Luke. The battle medidation might be Sith-like, but I can't remember Jacen and Lumiya actually sitting down and her teaching him how to do some stuff, like the Force phantoms. Then again, if she had, then Jacen might've realized something was wrong with Lumiya's story, of how she manipulated people. Hm... nah, he's not that bright, he wouldn't have noticed. Jacen can justify a lot of things, but even before Lumiya got to him, as seen in Betrayal, Ben still understood what being a Jedi was about better than his unofficial mentor.

 

I agree with the Jacen is a moron bit...

One of his problems is that he's always thought too much. Without actually being intelligent enough to back up all that thinking.

 

It is the same guy with different desires and different forces driving him, and with no sense of scale. While he has different goals, his core, selfish personality still shines through. I ask you, is letting your mother die because you don't want to use the Force all that different than trying to kill her because you want total domination? Both are essentially killing your mother, because you want to attain your goals more than letting her live. Sure he conjures up some higher cause for which he has to leave her to die: "I can't save her by using the force, I'd fall to the dark side! By not saving her I'm saving the galaxy!" or "I have to kill her to restore order to the galaxy! By killing her I'm saving the galaxy!" It helps him sleep at night, yes. But ultimately, the differences are trivial, and he maintains his selfish personality.

 

You know, I'm kinda hoping that the title of the next book would be a reference to him making a self-revelation:

Looks in a mirror. Sees what he's become and how he became that way. Closes his eyes and screams, "Jacen, you vaping dope!!!"

 

Luke's life has been devoted to destroying the Sith. Luke's death coinciding with the death of Lumiya, and the destruction of Ziost is really not that bad a scenario. Without the Sith, the Jedi should be able to sort the Galaxy out in time. But to have Luke live but have the Sith take over is a much worse scenario and quite frankly an insult to Luke.

 

Ultimately, it was to make the galaxy a safe place for his daughter and all other children to grow up in.

 

Hmmm, another example of "whatever helps him sleep at night"?

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

Hiya everybody, long time no post, but here's my theory on the subject. I'm sure over the course of the LOTF series someone has already suggested this, but I've been out of the TFN loop for awhile, so here it goes.

I recently re-read The Unifying Force, where this opinion began to grow in the back of my mind. It was cemented when I read Jedi s. Sith: The Essential Guide, and got to the section describing Jacen's brief moments as a perfect being of the Force (I forget the exact description, forgive me, but you all know what I mean).

Anyway, I've gotten to thinking. When this happened, Jacen became a being of pure light, with beams shooting every which way and doing all sorts of nifty force things, including melting Onimi. Could it be, that this moment of pure enlightenment and balance cost him more than five years worth of aging? Could it, perhaps, have cost him some, if not all, of the light within himself? A sign of the darkside is physical aging and deformity, could the aging that occured after his temporary-ascension be from the lack of light within?

To me, that seems plausible. To me Jacen seemed like the type to have...what do you call it...oh yeah, rational thought. Killing people and fighting a war, just to "make the galaxy safe for his daughter"? Sorry, I don't buy it. But throw in the fact that he's lost some of the good within himself, or some other valid circumstance, and I can roll with it.

 

I don't know, it seems a bit beyond him.