Lit Why did no other Sith like Darth Krayt?

Alright this is just my curious interest, but correct me if I am wrong on something. Darth Krayt created a powerful, enormous new Sith order in favor of Bane's very small order of Sith, was a successful in seizing control of the galaxy with it, and was very, very powerful himself. That would all qualify him as a celebrity, and respected figure among any of the Sith or Dark Adepts. Yet when he was in trouble at one point, he activated three Holocrons of a few famous Sith, namely Nihilus, Andeddu, and Bane. They all showed no respect to him, mocked him, and Andeddu even tried to kill him. Why? What did he to earn their scorn? It just makes no sense they refuse to assist a Sith who has basically achieved all their best interests.

 

Sidious went to Korriban in Empire's End to likewise seek help and got the same treatment. Sith aren't big on cooperation.

 

Bane didn't like him because Krayt violated his Rule, and opened himself up to the same failings of past Sith Orders. A member of his own Order probably would've been treated with more respect.

Andeddu, who as we know wasn't just a Gatekeeper but the actual spirit of the Sith Lord, didn't really give a reason, but seemed to simply dislike him for a similar reason to Bane, in that he'd spread the Dark Side amongst a large group of disciples. He also noted Krayt's fear of death, such fear seemed to breed contempt for Krayt in Andeddu.

Nihilus was unable to be understood.

Though in general, its not in the nature of most Sith to congratulate another.

 

Viviate was also rejected by the Sith Lords of Korriban.

In general, when you're an undead specter, the living are people you tend to regard with a sense of distaste. About the only people who ever got any form of cooperation were Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma. Even then, you might argue that was mostly Freedon Nadd and Marka Ragnos' bag. It also turned out rotten for Nadd.

 

Marka Ragnos materialized to give Plagueis a piece of his mind once.

 

The Tales of the Jedi sourcebook said something, I think, to the effect of: "Sith holocrons more or less insult you continuously, berate you, and hiss at you. If you can stand this amount of verbal abuse and give back as good as you've got--particularly if you scare the Gatekeepers into compliance or flatter them into submission--you can get them to reveal their secrets."

I thought that was extremely appropriate.

 

Did the concept of the "Sith holocron" exist when the Tales of the Jedi sourcebook was written? When Dark Empire was written, the Jedi holocron was a unique, one-of-a-kind artifact. Though I suppose Kun smashed one to possess a bunch of Jedi into joining his Sith Brotherhood.

 

Bane despises Krayt for rejecting the Rule of Two, believing that Krayt is making the same mistake as the ancient Sith, and their greater numbers will only end up tearing them apart. Nihilus doesn't care for Krayt or his struggles; Nihilus never truly cared about "the Sith" as a whole, just himself and his power. The fact that he kills Jedi and is generally evil is just a byproduct of his own personal quest to sate his insatiable hunger. Krayt can't further his goals, why should Nihilus be concerned with Krayts?

And as for Andeddu...Andeddu's just an pants. More to the point, Andeddu believes in the superiority of the ancient Sith over any other incarnation, and believes in his own superiority over any and everyone else. Andeddu established himself as a God-King, and discovered a path to immortality through "Essence Transfer." He's essentially quite happy with who and what he is, and doesn't really care that Krayt's having problems. If he were a true Sith, in Andeddu's eyes, he'd figure out how to solve his problems himself.

 

Re: Sith Holocrons

Yeah, Exar Kun uses one to corrupt all of his Dark Side apprentices.

 

Too bad Andeddu got PUNKED by Wyyrlok.

I miss the days of Exar Kun being the only Sith Lord with which to measure Darth Vader against, with Kun holding a reverence among fans similar to what Revan held not too long ago.

 

Re: How to Talk to a Sith Holocron

Darth Krayt's problem was that he tried to persuade them through reason. He would have gotten better results if he'd done something like this. "Oh, I'm sorry, what was that? That was the sound of my RULING THE GALAXY while you lie in a bunch of moldy old crypts. By the way, Nihilus, great job getting killed by the Exile. Bane? 1000 years of DOING NOTHING. Palpatine did it all himself. Andy? Immortality not looking so hot now. Because you're DEAD!"

I think in terms of pure success stories, the Sith go like this.

1. Darth Sidious.
2. Darth Vivitate
3. Darth Krayt

Darth Sidious managed to extinguish the Jedi knighthood, conquer the galaxy, and usher in a hundred year age of chaos which the galaxy still hasn't entirely recovered from. His reign was only twenty-years but that was due to the Chosen One.

Darth Vivitate deserves credit for living 400 years, creating his own galaxy-spanning empire, and also managing to survive the Jedi purge. He also eradicated the Sith of Old when he did his ritual to become immortal. So you could make an argument that he's *A* Sith'ari. I think of it as a title rather than a rank, anyway.

Darth Krayt comes in third because he managed to build up a New Sith Order from scratch, take over the galaxy like Palpatine, and ruled the galaxy for seven years. While fans don't give him as much credit, he fully reached his potential as a Sith Lord and came back from the dead. A feat matched only by a few of their kind.

Krayt is an excellent villain. He just doesn't get the props he deserves.

 

Because Krayt is a jedi playing at being Sith. Like Kaan before him, he is too stuck in the jedi way of thinking to truly BE Sith.

Also he is a poser these guys were Sith before it was cool.

 

Eh, Krayt eventually got over it. Sadly, that meant the entire galaxy turned against him.

 

I do not like the 'new Krayt', he reminded too much of Wyrrlock and not enough like Krayt, so it bugged me that they brought him back.

 

To sum up:





The Sith are playa hatin' trolls, and damn good at it.

 

He seemed an okay bloke until Mon Calamari.

*folks watching Star-Span on the holonet*



"Now, let's go back to the Mon Calamari Senate for a speech by Emperor Krayt on recent terrorist attacks against the system."

"BWHAHAHAHAHAH! ONE TENTH OF ALL MON CALAMARI WILL DIE AND THE REST WILL BE WORKED TO DEATH IN SLAVE LABOR CAMPS! SO SPEAKS KRAYT!"

"Well, that was interesting. What do you think, Morbo?"

"I approve of Darth Krayt's strong stance against crime."

"Next, the weather!"

 

KRAYT DRAGONS DO WORK THAT WAY

GOOD NIGHT!

 

What!!? When did this happen?

 

Hm, now that you mention it, was that mentioned in the Book of Sith? I don't think it was in the Plagueis novel, although not entirely sure, but I think it reminds me of something from Plagueis' section in the book. Although given Plagueis' scientific nature, he was skeptical or something? But just another excellent tidbit from that book.

Krayt has a somewhat reasonable claim on Sith lineage, given that he learned from Xoxaan's holocron. Hopefully no one ever counted his encounter with Vergere as a link to Sith history,but the Legacy comic was too well written to do something as stupid as that (well, to base Krayt's Sith claim on that alone at least).

Expecting help from any other Sith is a bit much, but then Krayt did retain some Jedi values (or maybe it was Tuskan, he probably valued his Tuskan upbringing more than his time as a Jedi). And it also showed how desperate Krayt was getting. But yeah, asking some of the most evil Sith in history for help is a bit much. If they were that helpful, they wouldn't have been Sith, or at least Krayt could have tried forcing an answer out of them. Though based on the dialogue, if I remember right, it wasn't the first time he had consulted those holocrons. His dealings with Muur turned out better for him anyway, and that was a mutual betrayal too anyway.

 

There's only one criteria to being a Sith IMHO.

"Are you scary enough to make people accept you're one?"

 

That should properly be "Are you scary enough to make the other Sith accept you're one?"

 

Eh, the other Sith never accept each other. Bane wouldn't accept Palpatine anymore than Palpatine would accept Krayt would Adas accept any of them.

To take the name of Sith is more or less to shout to the heavens. "**** you! I'm doing it MY way!"

 

They had Empires run by Sith, at some point, some most clearly have started to accept each other, sure they might not like each other and at times be out to destroy each other, but like nobles in a Feudal System they clearly agreed on hierarchies and shared power for long stretches of time.

 

Yeah, but it's also a religion so that complicates matters. The Greek Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic Churches excommunicated each other for centuries, claiming the others didn't qualify as Christian.

Likewise, Sith can also be a title so people will want to deny it. There's a few cases in the EU where it's interesting questions of legitimacy for the Dark Siders.

* The Prophets of the Dark Side
* Jerec
* Darth Ruin (Sith holocron vs. actual Sith lineage) and Darth Krayt (ditto)
* Freedon Nadd and his disciples (Nadd stole a bunch of Sith stuff from Naga Sadow--he was never actually a Sith Lord)
* Lumiya
* Palpatine's many Dark Siders.
* Darth Caedus is a self-proclaimed Sith Lord. He's just more powerful than Darth Vader.

In a way, I think Krayt's order would have been MORE interesting if he'd wholly made it up. Basically, something like the Third Reich.

"Yes, there's nothing remotely Roman about my Empire but I'm using it because I'm an evil Dark Sider and it sounds scary."