CT Why did Vader take Luke to the Emperor?

As Han, Leia, and Luke approach Endor on the Imperial shuttle, Vader senses Luke's presence. Later, he tells the Emperor that Luke is on Endor. When Luke turns himself in, Vader rejects his invitation to come with him and rejoin the light side. (It's interesting how this is the exact opposite of the end of the ESB duel, and it's Vader who is in denial about being Anakin Skywalker.) Rather, he takes Luke to the Emperor, as he was commanded when the Emperor arrived on the Death Star.

Why does Vader do this? At the end of the ESB duel, it is revealed that Vader wants to use Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor. What has changed since then? Why doesn't he imprison Luke for himself? When notifying the Emperor of Luke's presence on Endor, the Emperor reveals that he did not sense it. Why did Vader even tell the Emperor in the first place?

It's obvious that Vader isn't above lying to his master or keeping secrets from him. Seemingly Vader has been hunting Luke without the Emperor's knowledge in ESB, or at least bluffing that he doesn't know Luke is his son. What has happened to Vader so that he suddenly lost his ambitions of overthrowing the Emperor, now only following his orders blindly?

 

How could Luke have helped Vader destroy the Emperor without being in the presence of the Emperor?

Vader still needs Luke to turn, and his scheme didn't work in Empire. By the time of Jedi, he is no longer controlling events. Palpatine is wary of him, and Luke turns the tables when he willingly gives himself up. Vader did not foresee this. He might then be banking on Luke turning and taking his rage out on Palpatine, at which time Vader can assist him. But Vader's game is doomed to fail. Although, in a way, this failure saves his soul.

 

Why would Vader try to destroy the Emperor without being sure Luke was on his side?

It was a fluke that Luke managed to escape in ESB, not any basic flaw in his scheme. It very nearly worked had R2 not been able to fix the hyperdrive. The pretext of putting his friends in danger was still very much at work in ROTJ. All he had to say is that he would send a legion of troops to the shield generator if he did not turn to the dark side. Except now, Luke is unarmed and can be put in an environment completely under Vader's control.

 

ONLY TOGETHER CAN WE TURN HIM TO THE DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE- Darth Sidious


The full mission of the Sith is to turn their last remaining threat to the dark side. If you'll remember in ESB, Vader suggested to the Emperor that if Luke could be turned he would be a powerful ally. Darth Sidious agreed. Once Vader and Luke duel, Vader is unable to turn Luke, which is why he told him that he was his father in the first place. Even once Luke learned the horrible truth about his parentage, he still didn't turn. On to ROTJ. Vader has searched for Luke to no avail.


It was unavoidable that Luke and Vader would clash lightsabers again. But this time they would do it in front of the Emperor. And then and there, the Sith would try to corrupt Skywalker to the Dark Side.

 

He wouldn't. The question is how Luke could be turned to the dark side.

Like mjerome3 said, Vader knew he couldn't turn Luke on his own. He had tried, and failed. With Luke now being stronger, Vader being weaker, and Luke consciously reaching out to Vader's true self, the chances of him succeeding on his own were thinner than before. He knew Palpatine was right, that they could only turn Luke together. But even then, the light of the Jedi prevailed.

I only said Vader's scheme failed, not that it had any basic flaw. In any case, by ROTJ the situation is considerably different. Luke is almost fully trained, and wise to Vader's past and his weaknesses. The element of surprise and shock is gone. Vader's only choice is to gamble that Palpatine can get to Luke and that father and son can at some point turn on their master, like anakinfansince1983 said.

You ask why Vader turned Luke over to the Emperor and didn't just imprison him for himself. I think that's obvious: It would be suicide for Vader, because Palpatine would know. And I also think that Vader's plan B, if overthrowing Palpatine didn't work, was to set Luke on the path to Sith-hood in any case, maybe even sacrificing himself for the future of the Sith. He's Darth Vader, after all. He doesn't want a Jedi Knight roaming the galaxy to mess things up.

 

Yes, I agree with this interpretation.

 

Exactly what he said. Vader even wished death on Luke if Luke didn't join him. But even still, Vader was not able to turn Luke to the dark side on his own. When father and son meet again, Luke is much stronger this time around. The Emperor is needed to intervene.

 

Remember the Rule of Two: at any point in time there can be only two Sith (a master and an apprentice). Vader's plan in TESB was to turn Luke to the Dark Side, and together they would overthrow the Emperor, so that Vader would become the new Sith master, and Luke would be his Sith apprentice. The Emperor's plan (all along) was to turn Luke to the Dark Side and have Luke take his "father's place at my side," so that Palpatine would remain the Sith Master, with Luke as his new Sith apprentice.

At Bespin, Vader learned that he was not powerful enough to turn Luke to the Dark Side on his own. Although usually we think of Vader as having kicked Luke's @$$ at Bespin, from this perspective Bespin was a disastrous DEFEAT for Vader. Why? They key to understanding this is to recognize that Vader believed -- with absolute certainty -- that sooner or later Luke WOULD turn to the Dark Side ("IT IS YOUR DESTINY," just like it had been Anakin's destiny before him). Vader believed so strongly in the Dark Side that HE WOULD RATHER DIE HIMSELF than interfere with Luke's DESTINY of turning to the Dark Side. Knowing that Luke MUST turn to the Dark Side, Vader brought Luke to the Emperor, recognizing that the Emperor was correct that "Only together can we turn him to the Dark Side of the Force." But Vader also recognized that (under the Rule of Two), once Luke had turned, the Emperor would turn against Vader and install Luke as the new Sith Apprentice. In sum, once Vader recognized that he was not powerful enough to turn Luke to the Dark Side on his own, he understood that the only end to this story would be Vader being ousted as Sith Apprentice (which almost certainly meant Vader's death). That's why Vader was so somber in ROTJ. He was resigned both to Luke's destiny (turning to the Dark Side) and to his own.

 

I disagree that Vader wanted to be so noble that he only wanted to sacrifice himself so Luke can fulfil destiny. The real reason is that there was no "only two" rule at the time of the original trilogy. They simply planned to be a trio that would be undefeatable, or at least Vader believed thats what Palpatine wants, not knowing he simply wants to replace him. On the other hand Vader needed Luke to kill the Emperor and be the ruler of the galaxy himself, which is typical for a Sith - to be selfish and lust for power. Theres no nobility or taking steps back to let the destiny play out as its suppose to. No one would do it, and especially not a Sith. As others already mentioned, Vader brought Luke to the emperor because he realized that what Palpatine said is true and that only together they can convert Luke. Once converted, he would become their pawn or apprentice, and sometime during the training when Luke would become powerful enough Vader would try to turn Luke against Palpatine and Palpatine would try to do the same against Vader. As easy as that

 

You've got it pretty much covered there. Luke is quite a prize; he's the linch pin to either Vader or Palpatine's dream of
total galactic control.

I would have loved to have seen Luke go Dark, then control both Palpatine and Vader like puppets, but... it wasn't up to me.

 

Listen to how sullen Vader is at this point, when he talks to Luke. He is clearly resigned to his fate. He knows his Dooku moment is coming.

He knows he is being replaced by Luke. The Emperor is putting distance between himself and Vader. When the Emperor arrives on the Death Star he exiles Vader to his command ship, and is displeased when Vader comes back to see him. In deleted scenes, the Emperor's royal guards try to prevent Vader from entering the elevator to see the Emperor.

Vader knows it is over, he's beaten and he's about to be replaced by his son.

He dares not challenge the Emperor directly. He tries to do it in secret before the Emperor calls him on it with the hologram conversation in ESB. His official mission on Bespin is to bring him back for the Emperor but in the heat of battle he lets his true desires show, for Luke to join him and together they can overthrow the Emperor.

 

I have to disagree here. Even though the rule of two is not explicitly stated in the OT, it's clearly at play.

We have the dialogue in ESB about how Luke would be a powerful ally, but don't be fooled for a second, there is no plan for a triumverate. This dialogue is full of lies and minced words, Sith expect treachery from one another. Vader has just been busted on his attempts to recruit a new apprentice for himself, and the Emperor clearly isn't as stupid as he pretends to be, he knows what's going on. They are both dancing around the truth, that each wants Luke for their new apprentice. Vader got busted. Neither one is going to explicitly say what they mean -- "I want to kill you and take your place/replace you".

That's why Vader is forced to bring him to the Emperor on Bespin, but why in a moment of desperation he pleas for Luke to join him and together they will "rule the galaxy as father and son" -- no mention of the Emperor, he didn't say "and together with the Emperor we can rule the galaxy as father and son and depending on your point of view an elderly grandfather-ish figure who may have created me with midichlorians". That's also why the Emperor goads Luke to "take <his> father's place at my side" and that SPECIFICALLY eliminates Vader from the equation -- note that Vader doesn't seem surprised or perturbed by this turn of events, because it's been expected all along. That is why he is so resigned to his fate in ROTJ. The Emperor has been distancing himself from Vader ("I told you to wait on the command ship") in order to replace him.

If you throw in what happens in TFU (not sure on the canon-status) there's a steady history of Sith treachery, the apprentice is constantly looking to overthrow the master and the master is always looking for a better apprentice -- and more importantly the master is always ready to nip the apprentice's new apprentice in the bud.

 

I completely disagree. Its so un-Vader like and un-Sith like. If he thought Palpatine was trying to replace him then he would at least try to take him out himself cause what would he have to lose. Plus, no one would be so noble to just"let the destiny play out". He wouldnt defend the emperor either, and would simply not take Luke to Palpatine and train him himself and then team up to kill the Emperor. Vader was so stoic and sad because of his internal conflict and his good side reappearing and starting to feel for his son , not because he was sad that he'll get replaced. C'mon

Yes, theyre both trying to get Luke to kill each other, but if there were the rule of 2 then Vader wouldnt even mention having an ally. Palpatine would say "what the hell arew you talking about, you know full well there cant be more than 2", yet their official talk was that they will both turn Luke to the dark side and Palpatine would train him. That was the plan, but typically for Sith, Vader wanted to have all the power himself and use Luke as a tool to kill the Emperor. Once he realized that he alone cannot turn him, he took him to the emperor, and as already been said, once Luke's training will being he would try to talk Luke into killing Palpatine and Palpatine would promise Luke his father's place and order to kill him

There no nobility here and Vader isnt simply resigning from life and sadly giving up his place.

When he heard that he was almost begging for his life, heavily breathing and with his hand cut off, he was busy gasping air on the floor beaten then to express reaction. And I always thought Palpatine's betrayal and promise to Luke was crucial to Vader's turn. I always took the next scene as Vader thinking "this is my son, hes trying to help me, he cares about me...and this is a guy who I was loyal to but just tried to replace me. Was he really gonna do it? Who should I pick?" etc

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Why are there a handful of ROTJ threads?