I was just rewatching Return of the Jedi and suddenly noticed for the first time that Darth Vader doesn’t arrive at Endor onboard his flagship the Executor. Furthermore, I understand that Palpatine also didn’t arrave at the battle station aboard his Super Star Destroyer either, in fact the Eclipse wasn’t even involved at the battle of Endor. Why is this? Also, does anyone happen to know the names of the two IDS’s both Vader and the Emperor use?
I'd speculate that he keeps the Eclipse stashed somewhere for emergencies - which is why it was the one SSD to pass on to the First Order. According to Wookieepedia, the ship that brought Vader's shuttle to Endor was the Avenger, in Legends. It also states that the Emperor's shuttle was taken to Endor aboard the Executor, not an ISD - the shuttle just wasn't seen leaving it - but was already in space at the start of the arrival scene. Presumably the reason Vader deployed from the Avenger, was that he'd relocated his shuttle from the Executor to the Avenger, and dispatched the Executor back to Coruscant to pick the Emperor up.
seems a little strange for Palpatine to use Vader’s ship and for Vader to use the avenger. The explanation also seems a little convoluted. It would be like the president not using air force one to make a journey. Surely it would be a pride thing for the Emperor to bomb around in the most impressive ship from his navy.
Vader's ship is the best known in the fleet. In the Legendsverse it is the flagship. So, at the time, there were no more powerful and prestigious ships for the Emperor to transfer into, since the Legends version of the Eclipse was still under construction. In the newcanon, the Eclipse is exactly the same class as the Executor, but built somewhat later. In the context of the Legendsverse at least, Vader only transferred to the Avenger for a short time - after the Executor had brought him to the Endor system but before he'd actually arrived at the battlestation itself.
If the Eclipse wasn’t built at the time of Return of the Jedi that makes a lot more sense that Palpatine would take possession of it from Vader whenever he needed it.
Yup. Safest way to travel is on the biggest, toughest ship around, with the best-trained and motivated crew. The newcanon Eclipse may have entered service too close to the Battle of Endor for the Emperor to be entirely comfortable with using it a lot, hence his insistence on using the better-proven Executor. Perhaps the Eclipse was still having the finishing touches being put on it. However, by the Aftermath series, set a few months later (Life Debt and Empire's End novels specifically), a point is made of how the Eclipse is around, but has been thought to have been destroyed in a clash with New Republic ships - but wasn't.
I wonder what George and crew were thinking when they made the movie. Why didn’t the effects department simply show Vader’s shuttle drop out of the Executor instead of a standard ISD and later show two Super Star Destroyers participating in the battle?
I would guess, because the Executor model was a little on the small side (it's only a tiny bit longer than the Avenger model), and, for hangar shots, it was easier to use the Avenger model, which has a nice big hangar for the shuttle to appear to drop out of.
George was penny-pinching? Would fork out for a new Executor hanger close up model? I can believe that.
George had no problem using the Devastator model for distant shots and the Avenger model for close-in shots of the same ship - despite the fact that this produced a visual contradiction. "Waste not", probably.
If I was part of the LFL Story Group I'd look at this anomaly as a massive opportunity to create a fantastic, thrilling story. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ My idea is... The Rebel Alliance have been pushed back across the galaxy, the bulk of their fleet is hiding near a nebula in the Sullust System that makes it difficult for long range detection. The Rebel command structure is weakened, Princess Leia and Commander Skywalker have gone to rescue Captain Solo from the Tatooine based gangster Jabba the Hutt. To maintain some sort of offensive operations while their distant forces begin to join them, General Madine constructs a plan for a lightening raid on the Emperor's flagship, currently in orbit above Coruscant and lacking much of its escort fleet as it searches the galaxy for the Rebels. The raid is seen as more of a moral booster for the Rebels than any possible tactical victory, so Mon Mothma, on her way to Sullust from her place of hiding, allows only two squadrons to mount the attack. Admiral Ackbar selects a squadron of 2-seater Y-Wing bombers and a squadron of the new B-Wing light bombers. With Rapier and Sabre squadrons selected, their commanders must iron out the finer details of the raid, not just getting there but to survive a seemingly suicide mission, they must hope that surprise and the Force is with them. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ So may be the SSD Eclipse is in dock for repairs when Palps wants to travel to Endor to witness the final destruction of the Rebellion, Vader offers his master the use of his own personal Super Star Destroyer, Executor. It also explains why there are so few B-Wings available for the Battle of Endor.
I assumed Vader’s involvement overseeing completion of the second Death Star is largely a secret. Remember - even Moff Jejorad doesn’t know Vader is visiting until he arrives. JERJERROD Lord Vader, this is an unexpected pleasure. We're honored by your presence. Vader just shows up and takes charge. There is no advanced notice. This is to sell the trap for the Rebels. The alliance is meant to think Palpatine himself is overseeing completion of the Death Star. They aren’t supposed to know Darth Vader arrived earlier than the Emperor and made sure the weapons on the new Death Star were operational. So Vader travelled to the new Death Star in a regular Star Destroyer to help sell the ruse. If a Super Star Destroyer showed up, specifically Vader’s Super Star Destroyer, then word gets out. Everyone can see it. Maybe a rebel spy is on DS2. Or a shuttle pilot sees it and mentions it at their next stop. That’s very different than a small room full of high level officers and their troopers knowing Vader is there. My speculation is Vader is not giving direct orders to lower level staff or appearing at all staff meetings for all the Death Star construction crews. So why bring Star Destroyers at all? Why not have Vader arrive in a TIE Fighter or just in a shuttle. Well it is safer for him to travel that way. But more than that, Vader may have some of his own people with him who will directly oversee construction. He’s not giving Moff Jejorard more men, he’s replacing the Moff’s middle management with his own ruthless overseers. Those Star Destroyers could also be carrying additional supplies. The can also be there to start setting up for the Rebel fleet ambush. Later Han and company are also caught by surprise that a command ship is there. So ultimately - Vader shows up on a regular Star Destroyer to keep the trap secret.
I was going to suggest that same idea but for the Emperor. His personal presence is supposed to be a secret that the rebels stole, so he wouldn’t travel in his personal ship because that would be too obvious.
That’s good. And then for the battle Vader would be back on his own command ship with his own crew. It’s like a double blind. It also plays into the Emperor’s perceived arrogance that he’d still take a large ship. As a Sith Lord he could have arrived in a small stealthy craft, but he does want the Rebels to know he’s there if not directly. It just dawned on me that if Luke hadn’t shown up on Endor, Vader would have oversaw the Imperial Fleet in the battle of Endor. Maybe he’d of directly given orders or maybe Vader would have joined the battle in a fighter.
Vibe, supported by at least new canon material, and Vader having turned a lot more deferential to the Emperor than he was in ESB? Vader has been taken down a few pegs. That was always my take on it.
