Why didn't Obi-Wan and Yoda train Luke Skywalker from birth?

The other day, I was thinking, if Yoda and Obi-Wan saw Luke Skywalker as their only hope to stop the Sith (Palpatine and Vader), and bring restoration of the Jedi, then why didn't they train Luke from birth? Why didn't Obi-Wan go to Dagobah as well, and both he and Yoda train Luke?

This way, when Luke was around 5 or 6, when he could really start to understand things, they could have gently tried to explain the true history of his father, and what his mission would be - either redeem him, or destroy him. If Luke was trained from birth, unlike Anakin, he would not have been as rash and impulsive. He would have grown up to be more of an Obi-Wan style Jedi.

However, I believe the reason that Obi-Wan and Yoda did NOT take this approach, was that they were fearful. I believe that they were fearfull in the fact that they had a nagging suspicion that the son could turn out like the father, and that the temptation of the Dark Side would be genetic.

I believe that they wanted Luke to grow to around the same age as Anakin before he turned, to see what his personality would be, to see if his heart was true and genuine, rather than be corrupted. Obviously Yoda and Obi-Wan were proven right, sure... Luke was impulsive, but there patience wore off. I really think though, the main reason that they didn't teach Luke from birth was fear... but isn't fear itself a path that leads to the Dark Side?

I hope Episode III explains why Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't decide to train Luke from birth, like all the other younglings and Padawans from the history of the Jedi Order.

 

well for one thing, look what happened to the jedi that were trained from birth. they all died. so maybe it was as simple as finding a different approach?

also...the whole burden would have been more than luke could bare. Thats why Owen never talks about Anakin and pretends Ben is a crazy hermit.

But I think more importantly it had to be the will of the force. Maybe Yoda learned from Qui Gon's mistakes of:

1. playing with fate by changing the chance cube (blue its the boy, red its his mother) Jinn then makes it land on Blue. (before that Jinn says that everything happens for a reason..yet dosent allow reason to happen. whereas Ben does.)

2. insisting the boy be trained. He was very adament about it and defied the council and then made his padawan possibly defy the council.


now, with luke, ben sorta ponders the momment, almost like he dosent want to say it cause he knows he shouldn't:

"u must come with me to alderaan and learn the ways of the force". Luke says, no I cant. Ben says you must do what you feel is right, of course.

He lets it go.

The will of the force is strong though and after luke sees there is nothing left at the homestead..he says..I want to learn the ways of the force and become a jedi like my father.

Bingo, its on. It was Luke choice. I am not sure how much choice Anakin had.

 

I agree, though we are not absolutely sure that Luke never recieved training as a child. He says that Dagobah seems familiar after he crash lands. The babies are separated before Padme's death (Leia remembers her, Luke doesn't) but that does not mean that Luke was given to Owen imediately. He could have had some very basic training which was for some reason cut short and later forgoten. Maybe a disagreement between Ben and Yoda. Both seem to be able to watch over him when he grows up, but the appear not to have comunicated until Luke goes to Dagobah.

This opinion of course is based on the movies and not the EU.

 

The old method of training Jedi turned out to be not the best way. OB1 and Yoda needed Luke to be a human before he was a Jedi. Remember that they were tying to kill two birds with one stone (pass on what you have learned!).

 

My explanation is going to sound far more blunt than the others here, but maybe it's because they had their hands full with the mess of the Clone Wars and (not sure if this qualifies as a spoiler, but I'll block it anyway) being hunted down and killed by the Sith. I think it's probably pretty reasonable that, given the chaotic events happening around them, Obi-Wan and Yoda were probably far more interested in lying low for a while with long-term plans in mind rather than attending to the training of their "new hope."

And recall too that Yoda was against training Anakin in the first place. Perhaps we'll see that argument again centered on Luke with Yoda having the final word now that his original feelings about Anakin have been proven correct. Obi-Wan would concede knowing that he had helped bring the current mess about by going against Yoda's wishes in the first place.

 

I remember reading a series of articles that came out after TPM was released that were attempting to show that it wasn't as childish and badly written as people made out. One of the articles was around Obi Wan if I remember correctly, discussing how in part the star wars saga was also about his failure and redemption. They linked it to mythology about how his failure led to the creation of a great enemy, and he was consequently sent into hiding and shame.

This is sort of backed up by Tarkin when he says along the lines of "Obi Wan, he must be died by now". This implies that they know he's alive, just that he's been shamed into hiding and is no longer important. It's not until Luke comes looking for Obi wan and he is made to realise that he is needed again to stop the Empire that he changes his mind on training Luke.

Yoda is also reluctant to train Luke, and I viewed it as being for the same reasons, failures in the past and the shame that it generated (not sure if shame is the right word, but hopefully you get the idea). It's sort of like they feel responsible partly for the mess the galaxy has become, and have lost faith in restoring the order.

 

Also, once Obi began training Luke in ANH, Luk began sending off a "Force-signal" - if they`d begun training him from birth, the Emperor would have been alerted to a signal which was growing in strength - Palps/the Empire wouldve been alerted to the fact that some Jedi remained, and would`ve hunted them down.

 

I agree with Benny_Blanco. I think that the Emperor felt something in the Force from the first moment Luke uses it (on the Falcon to sense the remote) but the signal needed to be stronger for him to identify the source.

But keep in mind, Luke had only recieved minor training from Yoda in ESB and still the Emperor was able to sense it immidiatly. "We have a new enemy, Luke Skywalker". Had Luke ben trainied as a child he would have been detected and killed. Plus, I kinda get the feeling that at least Yoda had given up hope and only focused on staying alive.

 

Why couldn't the Emperor and Vader detect Yoda and Obi-Wan via their Force signals then?

 

I'm not sure about this but I've heard that you send out "force-signals" when you're using the Force and that Obi-Wan and Yoda limited their use of the Force to stay undetected. But one thing in that explanation seems weird. Yoda used the Force to free the X-wing from the swamp and the Emperor didn't sense it.

 

Interesting, this "signal" idea.

Clearly, as we're learning from the PT, a Force-user can cloak their activities to some degree. I think it's reasonable to assume that Obi-Wan and Yoda can and did use the Force during their exiles, but willfully kept it quiet in terms of other Force-users sensing it. Someone like Luke, trained from a young age, might not have such control and send out crazy signals as some of you have mentioned, and would draw attention to himself, would create disturbances. In fact, we learn from the updated dialogue from the Emperor that exactly such a thing has hpapened. The Emperor, it seems, has picked up on Luke's presence from the limited dabbling Luke has done.

 

Agree. I've read somewhere that Yoda hid in Dagobah because the planets strong Dark Side aura would mask his presence. Can anyone confirm it? It would be a very good reason for the Emperor not finding them during Luke's training. Sorry if it's a silly question but I don't read EU.

 

Yeah the EU does point to the cave as overshadowing Yoda and Luke's force presences. I believe it kept Palps from being able to find them yet he could sense that they were out there.

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Thanks.

 

well for one thing, look what happened to the jedi that were trained from birth. they all died. so maybe it was as simple as finding a different approach?


They died because they were killed by a Jedi that wasn't trained that way.

But keep in mind, Luke had only recieved minor training from Yoda in ESB and still the Emperor was able to sense it immidiatly. "We have a new enemy, Luke Skywalker".

On the DVD, I think he says "The Rebel who destroyed the Death Star, Luke Skywalker." Or something along those lines.

Here's my idea:

While Vader's after Luke in the DS Trench, he notices that the Force is strong with Luke.

The Emperor and Vader, knowing the strategey they used to destroy the Death Star and knowing how difficult it would be, realize that Luke had awesome Force power. In ESB, the reason the Emperor contacts Vader is because he investigated and came up with Luke's name and wanted in inform Vader that it was his kid causing all the trouble.

 

a major reason would be uncle owen wouldn't allow it.so, obi-wan wouldn't take luke by force because he's a jedi and not a sith. he was also probably a little afraid luke would turn out like his dear old dad.

 

Yoda does say "He is too old -- too old to begin the training..." but it seems that he's just trying to test Luke's seriousness and desire, not voicing a sincere objection.

On the main point, however, it it true that soon after Luke arrives on Dagobah, the Emperor and Vader discuss the "great disturbance in the Force".

As I see it, the disturbance here is not a direct "wave" or "signal" like when Luke contacts Leia at the end of ESB, it's more like a ripple from the future. Note that in their discussion, the threat posed by Luke is phrased in terms of future potential - "he could destroy us" "the son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi" etc. The disturbance is caused by the confluence of events - here, Luke's arrival on Dagobah and meeting with Yoda - that set the stage for him to become a Jedi.

If Obi-Wan had begun training Luke earlier, that would have alerted the Sith at a time when Luke was much too young to protect himself.

 

i think they didn't want to risk the same mistake made with anakin.

if they trained luke from birth and he had the same dispossition anakin did then he would probably give into his lust for power and turn out the same or worse.

i don't buy for a minute that their idea was thwarted by owen either, that just doesn't sit right with me, though owen has his own ideas about jedi.

i honestly think the idea was to let the children grow up normaly and safely, and take a wait and see approach.

bail probably wound up with leia because she was noticably less powerful than luke at birth, total speculation on my part but it would fit if it's correct.

initialy i don't think obi-wan could just stay in one place on tatooine either, i suspect for at least the first few years he had to keep moving around to avoid his own demise.

i think that the decission to let owen and beru raise luke as a farmer is grounded in anakin's fall.

by giving luke the family anakin didn't have till he was fully grown and mature they gave luke the chance to grow into a mature, emotionaly stable adult, who was capable of dealing with change and loss.

anakin never developed this, and his desire to overpower it destroyed him, as forshadowed in ep2.

luke is everything anakin wasn't when ben meets up with him in the desert, i think that's why ben decided to train luke, necessity asside.

i just can't see them taking chances with luke and risking creating another darth vader.

if luke had turned out to be as shakey a person as anakin they could have left well enough alone and let him live out his life as a moisture farmer.

 

You don't expose your last hope to corruption at such a young age. Especially in Luke's case. Luke wanted to get away. When he is ready should he be trained. Not before not after. Also Palpatine may have reached his pinnacle at the fall of the Republic.

Leia couldn't be solely corrupted like Padme. Luke could like Anakin. If you watch HP:TSS, you'll see some similarities in why they waited until a certain age.

 

actually, i pretty much disagree with everyone's reasoning on this subject...i first asked the question in the "starwars saga"...

it just seems to be a "plot-hole" IMO...because as it was obivous in ROTJ that luke was VERY close to turning to the darkside. he was totally unprepared for the fact that vader was his father and it was almost his undoing...i just don't buy that training at birth was the previous jedi's downfall...if luke didn't go looking for R2 he would have been incenarated just like his aunt and uncle...it just doesn't make sense that yoda and obi-wan would have taken this risk with their only hope(besides leia, who they also decided not to train)...

 

here's an abstract theory as to why: what if they realized that luke needed the darkside of the force to able to defeat vader and that was their reasoning to wait...without the luke's rage he would have never stood a chance at defeating his father...

i guess this is just more proof that the darkside IS stronger...

 

here's an abstract theory as to why: what if they realized that luke needed the darkside of the force to able to defeat vader and that was their reasoning to wait...without the luke's rage he would have never stood a chance at defeating his father...


you and i will just have to agree to dissagree.

it was not anything luke did that opened the door to beating vader, it was all vader.

if vader had been willing to kill his son, luke dies in cloud city no question in my mind, but vader couldn't or wouldn't do it-ever.

 

like i said before, it was just an abstract theory...i originally said it was plot-hole...

anakin's downfall WAS the fact that he was not trained early enough...it just doesn't make sense that their thinking was that two wrongs would make a right somehow...

but i do agree that vader could have killed luke in ESB if he wanted too...

 

like i said before, it was just an abstract theory...i originally said it was plot-hole...

anakin's downfall WAS the fact that he was not trained early enough...it just doesn't make sense that their thinking was that two wrongs would make a right somehow...

yea that's what i dissagree with, but that's ok, unless it's put out there as fact by lucas we're both ok believing what we want, hehe.

that in fact is probably why i enjoy the movies.

to me it wasn't so much a matter of a second wrong balancing things as it was a matter of taking the super cautious approach.

basicly i suggest that they waited till ben saw what kind of person luke grew into, and even then only trained him cause he had to.

i truely believe that yoda is greatly affected by the events between episode 2 and episode 4, ep5 realy cause we dont' see him in ANH.

his philosophy changed completely, he sounds like qui-gon in ESB, but is the opposite in TPM and AotC.

ben has already failed with one skywalker and i think gunshy to try training another.

it's not at all suprising to me that they didn't try to train them from birth, can you imagine the Post Traumatic Stress syndrome they suffered?

must have been severe indeed, the world they lived in, everyone they cared about, their very way of life was completely wiped out.

to me it adds depth to the story and characters, i don't see a plot hole at all.

that's why i said we'd have to agree to dissagree.

 

Vader could've killed Luke in ESB no problem, but in ROTJ they were equals.

I think a reason that they didn't train him was because the emporer would of had twenty years to prepare for the New Hope.

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