why didn't padme rescue Shmi from tatooine? (2nd edition)

First, i don't really think she should . Though it does bring inconsistency in Padme's character, it wasn't set up in TPM at all. In fact, the real inconsistency is in TPM: she didn't know Qui-Gon is trying to free Anakin, from her point of view it looked like that after Anakin wins the race they would just leave him behind, in slavery, without any reward. Still, it was all right to her, don't even said to Anakin or Shmi: "I'm sure the Queen will take care of you after her troubles are over", or anything like this. No she just thought a "thank you" will be enough.

The following will be a reply to repeugh's post in Most of complaints about the PT can be found in the OT

And no, Quigon didnt try to buy Shmi, atleast not according to the movie.

QUI-GON : I tried to free your mother, Annie, but Watto wouldn't have it.
ANAKIN : But the money from selling...
QUI-GON : It's not nearly enough.

So, how does he know it isn't enough if he didn't try to buy Shmi

Its not like he is using Republic money to buy him.
Fisrt, Padme didn't have to use Republic money. She could use her own, or Naboo's, sure her people would agree to free Shmi.
2nd if there's a rule that freeing a slave on an outer planet is illegal, then the Republic deserves it's fate. A system's laws used to regulate what it's citizens do inside it, not outside.

(Maybe someone knows tha answer to this: bigamy is forbidden in the US...but if you go to a country, where it isn't, and marry multiple women there, will you be punished (as long as you don't have a wife in US)? I don't think so, but i might be wrong.)

 

This is in response to anidanami from the "Most of the complaints about the PT can be found in the OT" thread:

Her free Shmi only helps her and only her. She has not reason to free her not shoudl she have to

She has no reason to free her ?! - Good God. You?ve seen the film and I?ve pointed out what Shmi did for her and yet you still think Padme would have no reason to help her ? astounding! You're making her look pretty heartless and ungrateful, and therefore her characterization in the films makes even less sense.

What resources she's not rich. She jstu can't take other people's money to go free someone.

She?d have to be pretty dumb not to be able to raise the goods/money to free one slave. She?s head of a planet, she defeated the TF, but you think she can?t manage this task ? (Maybe she could have a wip round amongst her family, the Handmaidens, Panaka etc. I?m sure they?d be happy to help considering what they gained from Shmi?s help. ) You really don?t give this girl much credit do you. You?re making her look very inept.

She can't buy a slave it is illegal to do that and that's the last I will say on this.

QG did it . Or are you seriously suggesting that it?s okay to buy a slave?s freedom through gambling , but not in the more traditional way?
But this is all irrelevant for you ? you don?t think Padme has any reason to free her anyway.

I think Padme?s inaction is a contradiction of her character, but you?re portrayal makes her look heartless, ungrateful and inept. So far you?re not helping her .

Ummm QG put the Queen's ship on the line not for Anakin but for the Queen. QG put Anakin pod on the line as to free Anakin.

? And how does that support your previous assertion that Anakin won his freedom on his own?


g

 

She has no reason to free her ?! - Good God. You?ve seen the film and I?ve pointed out what Shmi did for her and yet you still think Padme would have no reason to help her ? astounding![/i]

She had not reason to free her because her people come first. She is not going to take money from her people to help free one person.


You're making her look pretty heartless and ungrateful, and therefore her characterization in the films makes even less sense.

Yeah she's really heartless for putting her peope ahead of one person.

She?d have to be pretty dumb not to be able to raise the goods/money to free one slave.

Yeah to free one person which is is not aloud to do. She will not break the law.

She?s head of a planet, she defeated the TF, but you think she can?t manage this task ? (Maybe she could have a wip round amongst her family, the Handmaidens, Panaka etc. I?m sure they?d be happy to help considering what they gained from Shmi?s help. ) You really don?t give this girl much credit do you. You?re making her look very inept.

I give all the credit in the world she is going by what Republic law is. The law says slaver in the Republi is illegal she can not go and buy Shmi. She can not have someone else on her planet do that. If other in the Republic found out they would kick her out of office. She goes by the law. She believes in the Republic.



QG did it . Or are you seriously suggesting that it?s okay to buy a slave?s freedom through gambling , but not in the more traditional way?

No QG never did that he made a bet with Watto that if Anakin won Anakin would be free. Anakin won Anakin was free. QG did not buy him

I think Padme?s inaction is a contradiction of her character, but you?re portrayal makes her look heartless, ungrateful and inept. So far you?re not helping her.

It's not evern importent that Padme free her because the fact is that Shmi still is freed by Cliegg end of story.

Because must of what I'm hearing is Padme can free Shmi and take her to Naboo where a group of thugs kill her and Anakin kills them and he goes to the dark side. ?

That ruins the story. It also ruins the whole point of what is trying to be shown which is not Padme is heartless because she did not free Shmi. (Which when it comes to her people her people come first). It's about letting going. It's to show how Shmi can let go and Anakin can't.

By taking it your way that whole point that is trying to be shown is know lost.

 

"letting go"?!

WTF does that mean? Would you leave your Mom behind in servitude while you're off flying around the galaxy for 10 YEARS?!

Just makes Anakin and Padme look like ungrateful idiots.

Way to make their downfall NOT tragic George.

What's so tragic about two unsympathetic characters falling? Nothing.

Good riddance.

 

WTF does that mean? Would you leave your Mom behind in servitude while you're off flying around the galaxy for 10 YEARS?!

It is showing that Shmi cna let going but Anakin can't. Even when his mother his she is complet when she see's him again Anakin still can't let go. He can't let go for even years after the fact. It's not until he is dieing does he get it. He let's go he let's himself die for his son.

Just makes Anakin and Padme look like ungrateful idiots.

Anakin can't even go free her because Obi-wan is with him a lot. Padme can't free her because it is against the law. She obeys the law of the Republic.

What's so tragic about to unsympathetic characters falling?

Unsympathetic Anakin is even told he has to let go of his mother. The Jedi don't want him to keep thinking about Shmi. That want him to let go. He can't let go and it cost him ever thing.

The fact that ever one is over looking is that she is still freed. She does not need to be freed by Padme or Anakin for the story to be tragic. She does not need to go to Naboo for the story to be tragic.

 

"She had not reason to free her because her people come first. She is not going to take money from her people to help free one person."

Well if the people of Naboo are that greedy/selfish then they deserve to die. The Neimodians should have killed the hole lot of them.

"Yeah she's really heartless for putting her peope ahead of one person."

It's called genorosity. Judging by the look of Naboo they could have afforded Shmi's freedom.

"I give all the credit in the world she is going by what Republic law is. The law says slaver in the Republi is illegal she can not go and buy Shmi. She can not have someone else on her planet do that. If other in the Republic found out they would kick her out of office. She goes by the law. She believes in the Republic."

The Republic in the PT is a democracy. Democracies represent freedom. Padme isn't buying Shmi as a slave. She's buying her freedom. If the Republic can't recognize the difference between buying a person as a slave and buying a person's freedom from slavery then they deserve to crumble along with everybody else who worships that system of government.

 

Well if the people of Naboo are that greedy/selfish then they deserve to die. The Neimodians should have killed the hole lot of them.

It's called genorosity. Judging by the look of Naboo they could have afforded Shmi's freedom.

The planet was just freed and needed to be worked on. Also a better peace needed to be work out with the Gunguns. Stop truning it into the Naboo people and Padme have to free her. They don't have that's not there job. Padme has not power on Tatooine. She can send who ever she wants they have no power on Tatooine. They are powerless to do anything. Tatooine belongs to the Hutts. They have to play by there rules.

That's what QG did. But Padme is not one to do that. She was against ever thing QG was doing.


The Republic in the PT is a democracy. Democracies represent freedom. Padme isn't buying Shmi as a slave. She's buying her freedom.

To do that she has to buy Shmi. You can't buy slaves in the Republic.

If the Republic can't recognize the difference between buying a person as a slave and buying a person's freedom from slavery then they deserve to crumble along with everybody else who worships that system of government.

They well not and can not get invloved in what a planet does on less it is part of the Republic ot is a threat to them. Tatooine is not part of the Republic it is controled by the Hutts. The Republic is not going to play by the Hutts rules nether is Padme nether are the people of Naboo nether would Obi-wan.

And for the last time she was freed. She was free for a long time before the things in AOTC happened she was free for 5 to 6 years.

 

"Fisrt, Padme didn't have to use Republic money. She could use her own, or Naboo's, sure her people would agree to free Shmi."

Since Naboo is part of the Republic, I would assume that they use a Republic currency.

"So, how does he know it isn't enough if he didn't try to buy Shmi"

Sometimes, it's obvious that you don't have enough money to buy something, even if you don't ask. Qui-Gon probably has a rough idea how much a slave would cost, and the cost of selling the pod might be nowhere near that amount.

Does Padme have a legit reason to free Shmi? Of course. But, I think her first priority was to take care of her people back on Naboo. They just had a massive war, and she needed to be there to help the recovery efforts.

"QG did it . Or are you seriously suggesting that it?s okay to buy a slave?s freedom through gambling , but not in the more traditional way?"

Yes, there is a bit of a difference between gambling and buying. However, people also seem to be missing the differences between Qui-Gon and Padme, and the differences between Anakin and Shmi. Qui-Gon made a bet to free Anakin, who he knew had a very high midichlorian count. From what we see, we get the impression that Qui-Gon is a bit of a rogue Jedi, and doesn't always follow the rules. Padme, on the other hand, is more traditional, and doesn't always agree with Qui-Gon's tactics. Anakin has a very high midichlorian count, and is directly responsible for saving Naboo. He could become very helpful to the Republic, while Shmi was just his mother.

"Would you leave your Mom behind in servitude while you're off flying around the galaxy for 10 YEARS?!"

Attachment is forbidden. Anakin knew that he'd upset the Council if he went back to save his mother. However, his feelings do get the better of him, and he does return to find her after 10 years. Remember, it was his first mission on his own. Prior to that, he didn't have any opportunities to leave Obi-Wan and head to Tatooine.

Also - I know this will sound bad - but Shmi didn't appear to be in rough shape on Tatooine. The slavery on Tatooine looks very mild compared to some of the tales of slavery from our world. She had food to eat, a place to live (that wasn't super-cramped), and didn't appear to be forced to work long hours. Her "slavery" seemed to be more like a contract to work for Watto. She had to work for Watto, and couldn't quit the job. Aside from that, it didn't seem too different than a regular life. It looks like Shmi recieved some sort of compensation aside from the housing, allowing her to purchase food and other necessary items.

It also is possible that someone from Naboo went to find and free Shmi on Tatooine, and found out that she had been sold to and freed by Cliegg Lars. Therefore, they would know that she was no longer a slave, and may not worry about her. It would have seemed out of place to have Padme tell Anakin that she had tried to free his mother, but that she had already been freed (or that she had tried to free his mother, and that Shmi had declined for whatever reason). It would have seemed forced, and it would be hard to transition to and from a statement like that.

 

Since Naboo is part of the Republic, I would assume that they use a Republic currency.
I suppose rpeugh wasn't referring to this, but that she shouldn't use the Republic's goods in order to buy a slave. Referring to the currency wouldn't even make sense, since the Republic currency is useless on Tatooine (that's why they had to do the whole gambling stuff)

Qui-Gon probably has a rough idea how much a slave would cost, and the cost of selling the pod might be nowhere near that amount.

You seem to forget that the pod was worth a slave when he nade the bet with Watoo. So unless he made a really bad deal, which I can hardly imagine, he couldn't be sure the amount of money he got isn't enough.

She was against ever thing QG was doing.

She was against trusting their fate to a boy they hardly know...that's all. She had no problem with the rest. In fact she seemingly wouldn't have a problem with just picking up the prize and leaving Anakin and Shmi to their fates.

To do that she has to buy Shmi. You can't buy slaves in the Republic.
Tatooine isn't in the Republic. So you can buy slaves there. Besides, noone needs to know what are you doing on Tatooine. So, no matter how long you keep saying this, I just don't see your point.

 

Tatooine isn't in the Republic. So you can buy slaves there. Besides, noone needs to know what are you doing on Tatooine. So, no matter how long you keep saying this, I just don't see your point.

It's illegal so she won't do it. Again I will say it is illegal. And also for the last time it does not matter that Anakin or Padme did not free Shmi. They did not need to free her. The fact is she was freed jsut because it was not by Padme which some people seeem to want she was still freed and I feel in the best way.

 

The fact is she was freed jsut because it was not by Padme which some people seeem to want she was still freed and I feel in the best way.

I too think the way she was freed is better than Padme freeing her. But I also think this matter wasn't handled well (mainly in TPM) and damaged Padme's character. And, again, you can repeat endlessy this "it's illegal" stuff, i won't buy it.
1) I don't believe it's illeagl: it makes no sense for the Republic making a law that forbids Republic citizens to free a slave outside the Republic. And since it isn't mentioned whether such a law exists, i'll assume it doesn't
2) Padme used to do what she thinks is right, and she awes a lot to Shmi, so even if it's illegal, i'm sure she would find a way around, if she wanted to
3) She seemingly didn't even think about freeing her, let alone thinking about whether it's legal. And that's what really bothers me.

 

She had not reason to free her because her people come first. She is not going to take money from her people to help free one person.

Padme and her people have their freedom as a direct result of what Shmi did for Padme, you keep ignoring that, but I guess when you?re trying to ignore Shmi it?s easier if you also ignore what she did ? how she risked the life of her her only child etc.
Well you can, but would Padme?
The people of Naboo would be happy if Padme freed Shmi, her freedom is approximately one Pod Racer, I don?t think that?ll send Naboo?s economy spiralling into ruin.

Yeah she's really heartless for putting her peope ahead of one person.

How does helping Shmi = not putting her people first.? Every time I mention Shmi you just try and turn it into a scenario where the whole of Naboo will suffer if Padme helps Shmi. These extreme scenarios make your argument look very desperate. It isn?t - ?All of Naboo vs. Shmi?. Once again you?re exagerrating to a ridiculous degree. I guess this goes along with your previous idea that Shmi would cost all of Naboo?s money.

I give all the credit in the world she is going by what Republic law is. The law says slaver in the Republi is illegal she can not go and buy Shmi. She can not have someone else on her planet do that. If other in the Republic found out they would kick her out of office. She goes by the law. She believes in the Republic.

The anti-slavery law is to stop people from being kept as slaves, if Padme bought and kept/sold Shmi she?d be breaking that law, but buying someone to free them is clearly different. How you manage not to see that is beyond me.

No QG never did that he made a bet with Watto that if Anakin won Anakin would be free. Anakin won Anakin was free. QG did not buy him

A ?bet? IS gambling. QG bet ?his? podracer , that was his currency in the bet.
He also attempted to buy Shmi after the race.

It's not evern importent that Padme free her because the fact is that Shmi still is freed by Cliegg end of story.

It?s important because Padme?s inaction goes against everything else we learn about her in the films and it makes no sense , and it makes her look bad. (Not as bad as you?re making her look, but still bad.)

((Me: ?She?d have to be pretty dumb not to be able to raise the goods/money to free one slave. ?

Yeah to free one person which is is not aloud to do. She will not break the law. ))

? How is that a response to the matter of her being able to raise the money? You keep doing that sort of thing, is it deliberate?


By taking it your way that whole point that is trying to be shown is know lost.

?my way? - what are you talking about?

YodaJeff
Does Padme have a legit reason to free Shmi? Of course. But, I think her first priority was to take care of her people back on Naboo. They just had a massive war, and she needed to be there to help the recovery efforts.

Yes, that was her priority, but that doesn?t mean she did nothing else for years to come.
Knowing Padme as she appears in the films do you truly think she?d be happy in her conscience knowing that the woman who risked so much for her was still languishing in slavery? No ? she?d do something about it. That is unless the portrayal of Padme in the PT is totally bogus.

Also - I know this will sound bad - but Shmi didn't appear to be in rough shape on Tatooine. The slavery on Tatooine looks very mild compared to some of the tales of slavery from our world. She had food to eat, a place to live (that wasn't super-cramped), and didn't appear to be forced to work long hours. Her "slavery" seemed to be more like a contract to work for Watto. She had to work for Watto, and couldn't quit the job. Aside from that, it didn't seem too different than a regular life. It looks like Shmi recieved some sort of compensation aside from the housing, allowing her to purchase food and other necessary items.

She?s still a slave, and as suc

 

Hi. I?ve been watching this debate and something just occurred to me.

It has been stated Qui-Gon tried to buy Shmi. It could be possible Qui-Gon would have gotten in trouble with the New Republic (or the Jedi Council if Jedi are immune to the law) if he had bought Shmi. We all know Qui-Gon is more rebellious than most so he wouldn?t have cared.

Since he never brought Shmi, we don?t know if he would have gotten in trouble.

Thoughts?

 

Just a few points.

In TPM it is clear what Qui-Gon wanted to do. He didnt just want to free Anakin, but he also wanted to free Shmi too. He was however forced by Watto's put down ("No pod is worth two slaves!") to back down on both, and instead choose Anakin.

He, clearly in his idealism, felt that he had to free them both. Because a) he felt it was right because of all they had done for himself, Jar Jar & Padme, and, b) if he were to take Anakin to be trained as a Jedi he wanted to make sure that the non attachment issue was made easier on Anakin.

So despite the fact he gambling with their freedom may have been wrong, he is still doing an idealistic thing and trying to make right what is to him an obvious wrong (re: slavery).

Anyway Padme, the topic of this.

I do not believe she would of had the resources to even free Shmi, especially when she is on Tatooine, she has only Republic credits, and as we know....yada yada yada, they are worthless.
Secondly yes it is valid to mention her planet needed all of her attention after the end of the TF occupation, she would not be a great servant of the people if she did not care for them and help them repair their lives.

 

He also attempted to buy Shmi after the race.

No that never happened.

 

QUI-GON : I tried to free your mother, Annie, but Watto wouldn't have it.
ANAKIN : But the money from selling...
QUI-GON : It's not nearly enough.

Edit: (that's just going by the first post)

 

QUI-GON : I tried to free your mother, Annie, but Watto wouldn't have it.
ANAKIN : But the money from selling...
QUI-GON : It's not nearly enough.

That had to do with the bet.

 

Getting money from selling the pod was after the bet was settled. According to the novel (and a few other sources) they sold the pod to Sebulba.

 

Which if you remember when making the bet Watto said that the pod was not that much for two slaves. Qui-gon knew this so he never asked about Shmi. All he did ask was that Anakin be set free.

 

Shmi is one slave.

 

who's to say that whatever money he got from Sebulba wasn't enough to buy Shmi?

The value of a Hyperdrive generator vs. a Pod maybe quite large.

 

It also is possible that someone from Naboo went to find and free Shmi on Tatooine, and found out that she had been sold to and freed by Cliegg Lars.

Funny; she never mentioned it to Anakin. He had to find that out from Watto, while she was standing right there.

 

Geist, how dare you present evidence from the actual movies!



You must rely on lines like "But Lucas' intentions were..." or "But we had to see them like this because...".

 

Q: why didn't padme rescue Shmi from tatooine?

A: Because George Lucas didn't think about it.

Let the analysis end there. Pretty much all movies have plot holes of some sort of another, although that is admittedly kind of a biggie.

 

Padme not freeing Shmi is possibly a flaw in Padme's characterisation, but by no means a plot hole.

Shmi's freedom not being explained IS a plot hole.


Besides Star Wars has no plot holes, only ones the viewer creates themselves.