Lit Why didn't the Empire exploit Wookiee life debts for saving them from CIS instead of enslavement?

The main question is in the title. It's been a part of Star Wars lore, both EU and Canon, that the Empire rounded up those poor Wookiees, beat them up, and forced them to build Death Stars and other stuff, and be slaves. The Wookiees were fighting to escape the entire time, and I can imagine this hindered productivity at least somewhat. This method also ended up creating one of the Empire's greatest enemies, Chewbacca, in both EU and Canon.

But here's the thing. The Empire saved the Wookiees from the Separatists in the Battle of Kashyyyk in Revenge of the Sith. Why didn't the Emperor just tell the Wookiees, "Hey I saved your entire planet, and by your own rules you now all owe me a life debt." Life debts are part of Wookiee honor codes in both EU and Canon.

I haven't read Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader where Kashyyyk features prominently, but is the possibility of the Empire exploiting Wookiees' own morals in this way ever mentioned? Or in any other work, EU or Canon?

 

That's a good point but I don't think the Empire had many Wookiee cultural attaches that got into the complexity and sensitivity of the life debt system. Basically as soon as Order 66 happened things got rather murder-y and kidnap-y and enslavement "All these Wookiees are dead!"

 

Palpatine would know this and he'd definitely exploit it, but he was very, very, very busy doing other things at the time I suppose.

 

Depends on how one views as more efficient use of resources, devoting time and energy to trying to navigate the intricacies of the wookiee cultural life debt system or just shackle and enslave them. Like in KOTR Revan can command his wookiee slave to kill the wookiee's best friend but would Wookiees generally do that or is there some cultural way for them to disobey the people who they have the life debt to? So it's either navigating a minefield of cultural enslavement or actual for reals enslavement. But I just liberated the wookiees in Jedi: Fallen Order and they certainly fought their way out in liberation.

 

It also occurred to me now that such a plan might fail. Wookiees aren't stupid. Maybe the hardcore fundamentalists of the Wookiee honor religion would swear a life debt to Palpatine, but a fraction (even if 4% of the 56 million Wookiee population don't swear a life debt that would still be millions of wookiees) might tell the Emperor to get lost. At which point the Emperor would have to start punishing that fraction anyway, enraging the rest who did swear life debts, so might as well just skip the nonsense and get straight to enslavement to begin with. Death Star construction was already running late even without muddling through Wookiee life debt intricacies.

 

If the Wookiees are that assertive, then shouldn't the Empire leave them alone and look for other people they can push around more easily?

 

Could also have been due to the lack of toleration of non-human species under Palpatine's Empire..
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Xenophobia

 

If I remember right, the Thrawn novel had a scene where he discussed why the Empire was against non humans, and a reason given by his ensign was that many in the Empire believed that alien species "didn't pull their weight" for the Republic in the Clone Wars.

Interestingly though despite him pointing out how little sense this made, he had no problems with the Empire using Wookiees as slaves.

 

They did not save them, they thought beside them. Different things.

Also: life debts is probably personal, not something applicable to a group.

 

Show proof the Separatists would have orbitally bombarded Kashyyyk to a crisp if it weren't for the clones.

Probably but I doubt the Emperor cares about such nuances. Unless it's written in the bark of a wyoshyr tree, the Emperor will interpret it how he sees fit.

 

Have we actually seen life debt been deeper discussed? Because I can see that you actually have to go out of your way to save a wookiee to get a life debt, if you are just doing your duty it don't count, because otherwise many wookiees would be in debt to lawbeings (and similar) just doing their job.

"fought" not "thought"

Are you asking me to show you? Or are you supposed to have a link in that text? Or have you missed a not?

I don't think somebody that's not part of your culture have any say in how your honour system work. Now if Palpatine did go through all the right rituals, got himself a citizenship on one of the wookiee worlds, and or wrote a professor title regarding their honour-system at one of Kashyyyk's universities, then maybe he has a right to speak.

 

This is the part where Palpatine said, "**** this, sounds like you furballs are a bunch of liars and won't even honor your own life-debt system! Bring on the torture droids!" Much Wookiee suffering ensued. The galaxy cheered as no one likes moral hypocrites. The Gungans, who also had their own life debt system, immediately pledged life debts to Palpatine and he made a big show of how they weren't enslaved in comparison to the arrogant Wookiees. (Yeah we know Palpatine wasn't ever going to enslave the Gungans who weren't nearly as strong, but Palpatine never passed up an opportunity to morally shame someone).

Even many years after the Declaration of the New Order, many Wookiees interviewed by Voren Na'al wondered if it would have been better if they had just sworn life debts to Palpatine after all. Perhaps then Palpatine wouldn't have been given an excuse to treat them so violently.

 

Serious question: are you making an argument here or a joke? I can't tell

 

The first post was a serious question on whether the possibility of Wookiees swearing life debts to the Emperor was ever addressed in any work. But some days after no one has provided any work saying it was. So we'll have to speculate how an Emperor who started his Empire acting "benevolent" got to enslaving Wookiees immediately in 19 BBY.

Your post about how Palpatine needs to go through all these hoops just to get a life debt sound possible. And so my response is what I imagined Palpatine would do. Despite the over-the-top nature of the response, it actually makes sense. Palpatine likely wanted an excuse to enslave Wookiees. Showing them as hypocrites when they decline his "polite" offer for them to rightfully swear a life debt makes sense. We also know the Gungans in TPM also have life debts, but they don't seem to be enslaved. By making an example of the wookiees and enslaving them, Palpatine puts on a show of how he only enslaves races who don't do what he says and the Gungans learn from the Wookiees mistakes and swears life debts.

If Wookiees swear life debts, he makes use of their brain and brawn. If they don't, he beats them up and just makes use of their brawn, and thus cows all other life debt races into immediately swearing life debts or being enslaved. And the Gungans are a lot weaker anyway, so he starts this "offer" with the Wookiees.

It's a win either way, classic Palpatine. That it was expressed in what you feel was a humorous post makes no difference as far as the point.

 

In KOTOR 1, yes, you can persaude Zaalabar, the Wookiee who has a Life Debt to you, to kill his beloved friend. But to do that, you'll need to use Force Persuade to get him to do that - he won't turn on his friend otherwise. Also, Zaalabar then betrays you afterwards once he realized you manipulated him, and then attacks you. So, my guess is that there are inherent limits to Life Debts. Or, as Zaalabar would say the first time you ask him to kill his friend:

In KOTOR 2, there was a psychotic Wookiee outcast, Hanharr, who view Life Debts as a form of slavery. If he swears a Life Debt to somebody, he tries to get rid it as soon as possible - by killing the person he swears the Life Debt to. I'm not sure if murdering the person who you swear Life Debt to would be considered a legitimate "cultural way" to disobey people you don't like, but then, Hanharr was an outcast for many reasons.

 

Well Zaalbar does follow you even if you're dark side aligned all the way up to that point. So if the Wookiees saw themselves as being indebted to the Republic/Empire, then they could conceivably be persuaded to do evil things as well...just maybe not too evil.

 

Technically it was the Jedi generals who helped them...and the empire wiped out the Jedi and wants people to be against them so evoking a life debt would be problematic.

i also think the life debt is more of a personal one on one deal. It’s about who saves you right then and there. Same with the Gungans, otherwise Jar Jar would translate his life debt onto chancellor Valorum after Qui Gon died since Valorum is the one who sent Qui Gon to Naboo in the first place.

as for the anti alien prejudice not making sense, when did racism ever make sense? The numerically dominant group will tend to always find any excuse to justify discriminating against smaller groups of people who are different in any possible way. Thrawn as clever as he is seems to view the Empire as the best possible force for order in the galaxy so tends to turn a blind eye to its corruption and bigotry. Ends justify the means I suppose.

 

Actually that might work to the Empire's favor. I wouldn't put it past Palpatine to accuse the Wookiees of swearing life debts to the banned Jedi organization and then enslaving them for that crime, while the Wookiees are wondering "What are you talking about, we don't even know how Yoda got away! We would have handed him over to you if you asked!" Chewie looks around nervously.

My medical doctor brother booed an African American Comic-Con panel goer in 2015 for asking Stan Lee a question about greater diversity in comics. When I confronted him, he stated that he was "fighting political correctness" and that he hadn't done anything wrong because I "can't prove the questioner heard it".

He denies he's racist despite cheering on "build the wall" and all that. I think it's all about finding a justification to feel superior to someone else.

 

Also of note Palpatine was not personally against aliens he just used it as a tool to create fear.

 

I think many of us have racist family members and so that is a familiar story, thank you for sharing. It’s unfortunate how so many are unable to pierce social conditioning and upbringing to realize that not everything we learn is right and that humanity trumps established social structures and belief systems.

Palpatine does seem too intelligent to genuinely adhere to racism. I agree, he just uses it. Vader on the other hand may have some true anti alien sentiments that trace back to his time as a slave under Watto and the Hutts.

 

Well, for one, I am pretty wookiees decide when they have a life debt, and you can't go around and claim one without them agreeing to it.

Second, the big justification for slavery was that the wookiees had actively rebelled against the empire by siding with the jedi against Palpatine's coup. Doesn't look like there is time or room to call in such a thing

Third, and related to the first point, life debts are "I follow you around and help you" not "I obey your orders" - so I don't think you can use to move large numbers of wookiees to horrible environments and do dangerous labor like the empire did with its enslavement.

 

Someone forgot to tell Chewie!

Chewie: Does my life debt really require smuggling illegal mind-altering spice, outrunning black holes in the Kessel Run, and infiltrating Death Stars? And working away on repairs on a Falcon I don't even own?

I know the Emperor sent Vader to go about slicing up the Wookiees in Labyrinth of Evil, but Palpatine in both canons often prefers to have people dig their own graves rather than do it himself. For example, in Legends he invited Alderaanian survivors to go to Byss and be his slaves under the cover of it being a vacation resort, when he could have just rounded up a bunch of people and forced them to go to Byss.

I think that's something they should bring into Canon to be honest. How horrifying would it be to Leia if all those Sith cultists cheering on Palpatine on Exegol were actually Alderaanian survivors who went their willingly?

 

How is slavery easier? You have to use force to compel your slaves to do what you want, as opposed to just having them do stuff for you willingly.

Labyrinth of Evil is before ROTS...I'm guessing you're thinking of Dark Lord?

 

Chewie has a life debt with Han, but do you think he could convince Chewie to do backbreaking physical labor for 12 hours a day? I don't think so.