Why didn't the Tusken women stop Shmi's torture?

Why didn't they? Were the Tusken men beating them into submission, or did they approve of Shmi's torture? Did they hate her because she was a human? Did they simply not care about her pain and suffering at the Tusken warriors' hands?

 

No offense, but how many of these Tusken Raider Massacre threads do we need? It?s getting kind of annoying to be honest...

To answer the question; it was part of their culture, tradition and thought processes. I don?t see any reason why they would have defended her. Where were the female SS Guards when the Nazi?s began murdering minorities? I think the answer is obvious...

 

Technically, I'm not talking about the Tusken massacre. Rather, I'm talking about Shmi's torture.

Anyways, I see what you mean. They must have thought Shmi's torture is okay because it's their culture...even if that is kind of sick.

 

We have four other threads on the first two pages of this forum where this could have been discussed. Just saying...

 

What makes you think women can't be every bit as vicious and evil as men can?

Sexist.

 

Oh no, I've never said that. Quite the opposite. Remember, I suggested that they hate Shmi because she's a human. The reason why I was hesitant to believe they approved of Shmi's torture is because Anakin said that the Tusken men are the fighters among the Tuskens, which implyed that they, but not the Tusken women, were the ones who participated in the torture.

 

Native American tribes tortured people to death. Romans tortured people to death. People have tortured people to death, for many different reasons all throughout history and in every kind of society. It's sad but true. It's really not much of a stretch that an often encroached upon indiginous people would have anomosity towards the extremely different encroachers, and not see much wrong with torturing them. Especially if they incorporated religion, which i think they have in the EU.

 

Even in cultures where the men are the warriors, the women are often cruel and dangerous. Our own world has no shortage of examples:

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier...
-Rudyard Kipling, 1895

 

That makes sense. While I don't think the Tusken women participated in the torture, they are accessories to murder because they wouldn't stop it. And they may have even enjoyed the torture as well.

 

Now that I think about it, you're right. The idea that the Tusken women are somehow more innocent than the men doesn't make sense. At least some of them must have joined in the torture.

 

No, that's not really what we're saying. Tusken culture is obviously extremely gender divided-just look at the way the females are dressed, their huge concealing metal masks, their layers upon layers even beyond the men (and the way we'd never seen one till we went into their village). The women likely were not part of the torture because the women weren't allowed to be. In some cases not stopping something is as bad as doing it but it's not always that simple. Like if you're raised to be a submissive child bearer in a clan of hostile scavengers.

 

Tuskens should be looked at as wild animals. I really don't think they have consciences to reason like that the same way humans do. I also don't think even the women talk and think things over with their male counterparts like humans either. They just growl and make those noises we see in the films. As Anakin said, "they're like animals", nothing more.

 

Loupagarou, you're right. The Tusken women may have just been forced to do whatever the men said. Also, LukeSkywalker, I think Anakin didn't mean it literally when he called them animals. When he called that specific tribe of Tusken Raiders animals, he meant that they were monsters/savages because they tortured his mother to death.

 

Female Tuskens wore variations upon the male Tusken garb (though in some tribes, males and females wore the same), often incorporating womp rat tusks into their attire: in some tribes, their role seem to have involved maintaining the encampments while the males raided and hunted, but in other groups, perhaps more strictly nomadic in outlook, they may have lived and hunted more closely alongside their menfolk.

Info from the star wars wiki. As far as why the women didnt do something it almost sounds as if you're assuming that just because they are women they would be more compassionate. BIG assumption. I go with the cultural thing and as the poster put up about the quote of afghan women theres a good example. female suicide bombers or attackers are not unheard of in muslim extremism-cultural/political thing.

Cruelty, whatever its basis is not limited to gender unfortunately

 

I know. It's just that people always say that the women were innocent, so I assumed that as well.

 

Ya your right there animals. There also animals who know how to build tents and shoot guns, sometimes with amazing accuracy. What is interesting is that these animals can hold there own against armed human settlers, i heard they killed a bunch of them. The animals in Star Wars seems alot more intelligent then the ones on Earth. They have also domesticated dog-like creatures. Interesting that these animals mimic all those human actions (fighting with tools, walking like men, etc). They must be like parrots, not thinking, just imitating.

This also reminds me of wookies. Wookies look like animals and even growl, then they MUST be animals right? I don't see what's the big deal then for trandoshans to hunt them for pelts. Animals are meant to me hunted like they are on earth.

I am very surprised that Anakin wasn't astonished that animals built camps. Animals building camps must be the norm in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

^^^

 

Humans are animals by definitions.

I think what they mean by animals is that they are savages with little concept of civilised convention. Perhaps barbarians would be a good term. Animals can be used to describe a culture which lacks civilised thought or concept of civilised convention. I would even argue that Tusken Raiders act almost purely on instinct without the ability to rationalise.

 

I don't know, that Tusken Chieftan from KOTOR seemed fairly rational. If that is anything to go by then they seem to have the basic groundwork for rational thinking and understanding.

 

I've always thought of Tuskens as intelligent and Sapient, and nothing in the films points another way. They have clothes, powerful weaponry, complicated tribal systems, religion, domestication of other animals, many many many human-like things. As i said before, human beings in real life have shown more hostility with less provocation than the Tuskens. And many creatures in star wars have entire languages of growls.

And there is no evidence in the films that the Women partook in the torture. In the films, we see them huddled up in extremely concealing clothes by their huts, never seen before in a hunting party, attending to children. And in the games and books, we'd never seen a female outside of villages either (if at all). This leads me to believe that their societal role in Tusken culture is one of child-rearing and domestic affairs over hunting or warfare. That they have no control over the larger affairs of the tribe makes them more innocent. I don't see how this is that hard to understand. And even in a more gender equal society, if a man tortured someone would you assume his wife was in on it? No. And would his wife deserve to die/punishment? No.

 

I agree. The Tuskens are by *no* means animals. And Anakin did not think of them that way. He didn't mean it literally. He only called them that because of what happened to his mother. Besides, he described the Tuskens as "men, women, and children." If he genuinely thought they were animals, he would have called them "males, females, and cubs." Also, I agree that the Tusken women weren't exactly guilty but...don't they count as accessories to murder? Because isn't letting your husband torture someone wrong?

 

There is no evidence to this. Aside from the social structure the culture has, the ability to organize attacks, it has also produced 2 Jedi Masters and one Sith Lord. I respectfully submit that you are overlaying your impression of what civilized means. When Anakin spoke of them as animals he did so out of hate and anger and meant it as a derogatory statement. He also viewed them as a lesser life form and that was his mistake. It was also the mistake that Owens father made which is why he got his *** kicked along with the rest of the search party they put together. The difference with Anakin was he took them by surprise in the night and had the force and exceptional skill.

Were they simply "primitive savages" they would have been eradicated years ago. The russians made a similiar assumption with the Afghans sir.....

 

You seem to labor under the delusion that women are less capable of sadism than men. In some cultures where torture of captives is common, the women do it.

 

firesaber, Anakin and Cliegg were NOT speciest! They only called that Tusken Raider tribe "monsters" and "animals" because they abducted and tortured Shmi because she *dared* to go on their territory. Can you blame them? Shmi was Cliegg's wife, so of course he is angry at the Tusken Raiders for abducting her. And Anakin is her son, so he's pretty angry as well. Worse yet, he had visions of the Tusken Raiders gleefully torturing her as she screamed in pain, only to have her die in her arms. While I don't like the labels "monster" and "animals" Anakin and Cliegg did not use those labels for prejudicial reasons. I just don't understand. When the Tusken Raiders do something wrong, they get a free pass because they are "misunderstood" but when other characters do something as bad as the Tusken Raiders did, they get bashed. If the Tusken Raiders were human, people wouldn't feel sorry for the Tusken Raiders as much as they do.

 

I'm not necessarily arguing with you as evidenced by my quotes above from the post you are referring to. What I am saying is that if they did have a negative outlook on the tuskens as a people-I can see where it came from. Not that its okay, but I understand the source of it.

when people are hurt and angry they tend to be pretty brutally honest as all facade is gone. He was quite clear in what he said and he killed EVERYONE.

If you kidnap and murder my mother and I kill you-some would view it as justice. I further go on to kill your entire family and all your next door neighbors some would say that something other than justice drove that. Just looking at from all sides.