CT Why do people blame Vader for destroying Alderaan?

Why does Vader get blamed for Alderaan? According to some book I read, Tarkin was commander of the Death Star, and Vader was supposed to take orders from him. It's not like he resisted because of his conscience, but if he had, the consequences probably would have cost him his life.

I'm all for not blaming Vader. Anyone else share this?

 

The EU consistently portrays him as the Emperor's right hand man and head of the entire Imperial military. His "obedience" to Tarkin was a face-saving gesture to keep Tarkin happy - but to an extent he was also there as the Emperor's watchdog - to stop Tarkin if he showed signs of turning traitor or acting against the Empire's best interests.

If Vader had strongly disapproved of Tarkin's actions, he would have acted - and Tarkin would be the one whose treachery cost him his life.

Even movie tie-ins, like the Illustrated ROTJ Storybook from 1983, have Leia pin a lot of the blame on Vader:



Luke looked at her worried face. "I must leave you, or the whole mission will be in danger." He gazed past her, into the darkness. "I have to face Vader."

"I don't understand," Leia said. "Why?"

Luke moved closer to her. He said gently and calmly, "I want you to know this, because ... I might not come back. And you're the only one I can trust. Darth Vader is my father."

"Your father?" Leia felt herself grow pale. She pulled away from him. "No, I can't believe that!" It couldn't be true. Luke was a brave, honorable Jedi Knight. He could not be the son of the inhuman monster who had destroyed her world. She shook her head. "Don't talk that way. You must survive. I do what I can, but I'm of no importance compared to you. You have a special power - I've seen it. The Rebellion needs you."

"No, Leia," Luke said wearily. "The life force runs through all living things. The Rebellion will go on long after I'm gone." His face was full of sorrow. Suddenly, he looked much older.

"There's something else you have to know," said Luke. "The Force is strong in you, because you are my sister, my twin sister. If I don't return, then you are the last hope for the Alliance."

 

He doesn't receive the lion's share of the blame (that goes to Tarkin), but some of the blame because he had the power to stop it. Vader could have stopped it easily, and survived the consequences.

Vader could have simply killed Tarkin and taken command. Or he could have used his influence to persuade Tarkin to not destroy Alderaan.

If Vader had killed Tarkin, what could anyone do? Arrest him? Kill him? They'd be too scared, and rightfully so, because they'd die right along with Tarkin.

He didn't stop it, either because he approved, or because he didn't care. Not because he wanted to and couldn't.

 

Ah, I didn't know that. I thought his deference was ordered by the emperor. Very interesting. Thank you!

 

It was.

Normally he'd be able to do what he wanted, but the Emperor probably said "Do what Tarkin asks you while you are there, but watch him closely and act if necessary."

 

Ahhhh, now I really get it. Okay. I was really wondering why someone would truly be above Vader like that. I see. Yes, with this knowledge, I certainly agree Vader should take much blame.

Clearly I was misinformed. Now, I blame Vader. Thanks Iron_lord!

 

I was of the understanding that the Imperial council overseen by Tarkin rubberstamped the go ahead to destroy Alderaan in which case the whole lot of them are the perpetrators.

 

Thanks for the additional information. I'm one of those Star Wars fans who watched the movies and read a few books, but really doesn't know anything about it.

 

The EU didn't say much about that council, the Joint Chiefs, in ANH - but it does seem likely to me that, after "Set your course for Alderaan" Tarkin would have had at least one conference in which they concurred with his decision.

 

Anakin.Skywalker are you being sarcastic with me because if you are I don't appreciate it. I don't doubt you knowledge on the subject, there's no need to give me attitude.

 

He didn't stop Tarkin from doing it did he? And he could have easily done it by just killing Tarkin and getting punished by Sidious slightly.

But it's really Tarkin's fault since he decided to use it as a torture mechanism and just kill some 2 billion plus innocent people.

 

ANH portrays Vader as a mere agent who is outside official ranks to do the Empire's odd and dirty jobs. This is why some high ranking officers had contempt for him. He hardly is portrayed as second in command of the Empire or in charge of the military. In ANH he is put in charge of a task force to retrieve the stolen data tapes. In TESB he seems to be in charge of a task force to find Luke. In ROTJ he is tasked to bring DS2 construction back on track. Vader likely did not have the authority to stop Tarkin from destroying Alderran, especially since it was part of his course to find the rebel base.

The idea of Vader being no 2 of the whole Empire is a entirely EU idea not supported by the films.

 

Actually, it was the PT, with its Rule of Two, and Dooku (Palpatine's apprentice) being basically the leader of the Separatist military, that set the precedent for a pre-TESB Vader as belonging at the top of the military hierarchy.

Before that, works like the OT Visual Dictionary, portrayed ANH-era Vader as "Tarkin's right hand man".


The newcanon seems to be following the EU's take with "Except for Tarkin, Vader commands all the Emperor's servants" from Rebels Visual Guide: Epic Battles.

And he probably wouldn't even be punished, if he told Sidious "Tarkin was acting against your best interests - I stopped him."

 

Dooku was the second in command of the CIS with Sids as first in command and very much like a distant puppet master, similar to a early ot idea of having a sith lord pulling the emperor's strings before they were combined. GG seems to be leader of the CIS military and under them is the CIS council made up of guild CEOs.

There is a deleted scene in ROTJ where Moff Jerripe orders Vader to return to the SSD, that he can't see the emperor. This suggests Vader was retasked to oversee the imperial fleet ambush and lost his authority on DS2. In anger he starts to force choke Jerripe as two royal guards are about to attack Vader when Jerripe explains he is just following the emperor's orders to not let him in until he is called for. Vader relents and walks off like a scolded schoolboy. Even in the finished film, the emperor orders Vader to the SSD in the manner of sending a child to their room. When Vader returns, the emperor angry scolds him why aren't you on the command ship? Treating Vader like a child who is supposed to be in his room.

Of course old EU and the new fannon can disagree with the films portrayal if they want, but that is how they present Vader, pretty much a slave to Palps.

 

I just assumed it was because he is the iconic bad guy of the series, after all if star wars fans are asked "who is the bad guy in ANH?" i doubt any of them (.....by that i mean us!) would say "Grand Moff Tarkin"

 

"Slave to Palpatine" isn't incompatible with "Master to everyone underneath Palpatine except Tarkin" though.

 

vader was there. that's bad enough.

 

No, no! Not at all! I really don't know anything and I do appreciate the extra information. I apologize if it came across as sarcastic. I don't mean it that way.

 

A bit of a misunderstanding then. We'll leave it there.

 

I've seen people blame Vader for Alderaan's destruction to argue that he he didn't deserve redemption. I think he is blamed in universe and out because he's more intimitad than tarkin and has more power in general. There's no reason to assume Vader wouldn't want Alderaan's destroyed, he was pure evil in the ANH era and originally the muscle villain the way Maul was in TPM, with little depth to him.
Besides the fact that Vader has no qualms about genocide, his prominence in the original trilogy is greater overall than Tarkin's. The actions of the empire are more associated with him as a result. In universr, I don't think Tarkin was as well known as Vader either.

 

Even looking at it in the best possible light, Darth Vader is still an accessory, and in all likelihood, he knew about Grand Moff Tarkin’s plan well in advance. Sure, he didn’t give the order nor did he pull the trigger, but he’s still culpable.

 

I agree with you, I wouldn't assign the blame to Vader since it was Tarkin's idea and orders. Vader played his part, bringing Leia to the Deathstar and all, but..I still agree that the blame should be put on Tarkin

 

As others said, he was an accomplice. Even if he didn't come up with the idea, sign it off, and give the order to fire, he didn't do anything to stop it. He had the power both literally and politically to stop Tarkin. As Iron_lord said, all he'd have to do was explain to Palpatine that Tarkin was acting outside the best interests of the Empire (blowing up planets would ensure the Rebellion would get more sympathizers, etc.)

So yeah, Vader is partially at fault for not doing anything to stop Alderaan from exploding. Isn't there a law stating that if you have the power to stop a crime happening in front of you, yet you do nothing...you're just as guilty as the actual perpetrator?

 

In the context of war crimes, "command responsibility" applies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_responsibility

"Accessory" also may apply:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

 

It's worth pointing out that the commanders of the Death Star knew it was a weapon long in advance. Darth Vader noted disproval when he said.

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force".

So here you have it while all the other Moffs were perfectly fine wiping out planets Vader gave a more cold but wiser response. Tarkin wanted to avoid a dispute and they settled on Tarkin making all decisions but it is clear that Vader was unconvinced of the reliability of the Death Star in eliminating the Rebels. He did a far better job on Hoth without blowing up the planet and with inefficient officers by his side.