Why does Anakin listen to Palpatine when he orders him to kill Count Dooku?

If Anakin Skywalker has already defeated Count Dooku and chopped both of his hands off and has him helpless and is esily able to take Dooku in as a Prisoner then why does Anakin listen to Palpatine when he orders him to kill Dooku? It should have gone something like this.

"Good Anakin,Good,haha,kill him,kill him now!."
"I shouldnt."
"Do It!."
"No it is not the Jedi way to murder an unarmed prisoner, what the hell is wrong with you Chancellor Palpatine?If we capture him we can order General Grievious to surrender the Separitist fleet and we can probably end the war."

Funny how Anakin allows Palpatine to order him to kill Count Dooku, he should have told the Jedi Council about what Palpatine said and what he really did to Count Dooku, Once Anakin becomes Darth Vader later on then he probably despises Palpatine more because he knows that Palpatine and Dooku were working together and that Palpatine ordered Dooku's death in cold blood for no good reason when they were supposed to be partners, This echoes the relationship that Palpatine and Vader have later on as well, except Vader knows that Palpatine has no real loyalty to anyone who is working with him, i also belive that the guilt Anakin felt over Count Dooku's death is one reason why Anakin did not want Palpatine to be killed by Mace Windu later because he felt guilty about doing the wrong thing.

When Vader is crying on the balcony on Mustafar he is also crying because he knows that what he is doing is wrong but there is no turning back now, he probably felt guilty over murdering screaming and nearly helpless Separitists that said they only wanted what they had been promised which was peace, Vader probably realized that they were telling the truth and later felt guilty and realized that they along with Dooku had also been betrayed by Palpatine, along with the entire Republic now turned into an Empire by Palpatine.

 

Because Anakin wanted to kill Count Dooku. All Anakin needed was "permission" from someone higher up. This is the same Anakin that let loose his rage and wiped out an entire village of Sandpeople. As a Jedi, Anakin had to control his rage, had to hold back. Count Dooku even comments on this during that duel, that Anakin is holding back. He WANTS to kill Dooku, but knows he shouldn't. Palpatine telling him to, and telling him that revenge is natural, is the prodding Anakin needs to cross the line. Anakin just needed someone important to tell him it was okay. He was holding back, but, with Obi-Wan out cold, and given his friendly relationship with the Supreme Chancellor, once Palpatine tells him "go ahead, it's okay, it's completely natural, he is too dangerous to be left alive" etc, Anakin cannot resist the temptation. As what happens more than once in his life, Anakin does what he wants to do personally, not what he knows he should do.

 

Anakin obeyed Palpatine because he wanted to do it anyway and Palpatine just gave him permssion, as the RotS novel says
"'I shouldn't-'
But when Palpatine barks, 'Do it! Now!' Anakin realizes that this isn't
actually an order. That it is, in fact, nothing more than what he's been
waiting for his whole life.

Permission."

I think Anakin's guilt definitely factored into his decision as the situation with Mace appears to be nearly identical to what he went through on the Invisible Hand. Even some of the phrasing was similar. It was part of the brilliance of Palpatine's deception as he made himself appear in such a way that it will immediately remind Anakin of Dooku and Mace has no idea why Anakin reacts like he does.

 

Anakin knows Palpatine only as the refined Supreme Chancellor and personal friend, not as a Sith Lord and tyrant, from this viewpoint Palpatine would be above petty things like cold blooded murder, Anakin should think of Palpatine as a sociopath for ordering Dooku's death, the Jedi are above things like revenge and murder and Anakin still does them anyway, he should have been questioning his jedi status after giving in so completely like that.

Strilo edit: Please don't bring up political issues

 

Good thread, Matthew. I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Just when I begin to think that everything that can be said on an issue has been said, you go and prove me wrong.

I would also add that Anakin respects power. And Palpatine embodies power. Anakin has had a long relationship with Palpatine and trusts him implictly. "I hope you trust me, Anakin." / "Of course." He probably wouldn't have killed Dooku without Palpatine's goading. Moreover, there is perhaps a desire, by Anakin, not to let Palpatine down -- if he tells him to kill someone, then Anakin feels like obeying, even if he's conflicted and knows he shouldn't. But you're right in everything you say. If Anakin had been thinking more clearly, he should have realised that Dooku was more valuable as a prisoner on political grounds, never mind the mercy of sparing his life, and that Palpatine was ordering him to be bumped off for a reason. Even having gone through with the execution, Anakin should then have reported what happened to the Jedi Council. Instead, driven by guilt, shame and good ol' fashioned fear, Anakin keeps the details of Dooku's death to himself, letting Obi-Wan and the Jedi think that he killed him in battle.

 

Well said. To me, Palpatine is justifying what Anakin is already feeling...Revenge, retaliation, getting even with Dooku for taking his arm in AOTC. Not necessarily an order but someone letting him know it's okay to feel what he's feeling.

 

Somehow i do not think that the loss of two hands makes Dooku weak. I am certain that he could still toss Anakin or Obi Wan across the room using the force and also shoot lightening out. Given how difficult it turned out to be to get out of the ship, had they tried to return with Dooku as a prisoner they would have failed.

Even the Jedi Council knew this as Mace Windu was ready to strike the Chancellor down rather than let him "stand trial' before the courts.

Palpatine, though, was quick to get Anakin to focus on the non-rational reasons for killing Dooku (revenge for getting his arm cut off), rather than the pragmatic reasons.

 

Palpatine had control over the jedi. they did everything he told them to do. didn't you watch AOTC? palpatine is the chancellor, he's like the president, so most jedi would do what he tells them to do. Anakin or not, because he outranks them. but not only jedi, citizens, or anyone in the galaxy would do what he desires..he has control over everything.

 

Then why didn't he?

 

Anakin has wanted revenge on Dooku for three long years, because of what happened on Geonosis. Dooku humiliated Anakin and made him feel inferior. Anakin's been looking for payback all this time and he's finally gotten it. But he's still conflicted between his desire for revenge and adhering to the Jedi Code. Palpatine telling him to do it and that it was okay, was enough for him because deep down, Anakin wanted to do it. Palpatine continues to blur the line, which Anakin falls for.

 

It doesnt matter if Anakin wants revenge on Dooku or not, revenge is not the jedi way, revenge is selfish and petty and doesnt solve anything and it makes you no better than the person that are getting revenge on, Dooku could have stabbed Anakin in the chest in AOTC after he chopped Anakins arm off and he did not do that, he only force pushes Anakin backwards and lets him collapse exhausted onto the ground and is about to leave the hanger until Yoda shows up.

Anakin is just a piss poor excuse for a Jedi Knight, and he has the nerve to question why the Jedi Council will not make him a Jedi Master either, Anakin is very foolish.

 

Actually, it does matter. It is Anakin's sole motivation for doing what he did against Dooku, was based on revenge. I don't deny with what you said, but motivation is everything. As to the part about Dooku leaving after Anakin was down, I don't see that. He just stands there before Yoda walks in. We don't know for certain if he isn't going to slice them up. He was going to kill Obi-wan before Anakin stopped him. No reason not to finish the job after he gets his second wind.

 

With Obi-Wan he was going to kill him because he refuses to join him as a Sith or Dark Jedi and his first plan to eliminate Obi-Wan fell through when the Jedi invaded the areana and stopped his death and Obi-Wan did not die in the battle, after a long duel Dooku decides to kill him so that he will not tell the Jedi about Darth Sidious and because Obi-Wan is just too good of a warrior to be left alive and lead the jedi in the clone wars, better to kill him then, and with Anakin well Dooku already knew that Anakin was the chosen one and was going to walk away and let him live, even though he did not like Anakin he was under orders not to kill him, even the ROTS Novelization supports the fact that Dooku knew about Anakin being the chosen one throughout his entire apprenticeship under Palpatine, based on that and Palpatine wanting Anakin Dooku would never have killed him, only hurt him and taught him a lesson, he even knows that Yoda would save him and Obi-Wan because of his compassion for others too.

 

Well, I pretty much disagree with Matthew78's take on this. First of all, Palpatine didn't order Anakin to tell Count Dooku. He gave him permission to due so. It's what Anakin really wanted to do, only his Jedi training was making him hesisate. But, if the Chancellor of the Republic was saying, in effect, it was ok to kill Count Dooku, then Anakin was going to do it.

 

It's the pay off -
Palpatine has been nursing this relationship along for over a decade...he's been manipulating everyone, but especially Anakin all towards this moment. Obi-Wan is unconscious - perfect. and Palpatine knows that Anakin considers this a grudge match - one he wanted to win emphatically. Yes he should not have listened to Palpatine's command - and make no mistake that was an order delivered in a command voice..but this "rescue" was really the final test for Anakin. Will he obey Palpatine over the Jedi Code? Palps got the answer he wanted but he's been molding Anakin to obey for a very long time.

 

QFT

The whole thing played out as perfectly as Palpatine had planned it. The only thing that would have made it better would be if Anakin had obeyed Palpatine and left Obi-Wan for dead.

 

Dooku wasn't told not to kill Anakin until the kidnapping plan went into effect. Before that, the boy was fair game.

 

the thing I don't get is dooku. when he gets his hands cut off the guy doesnt even scream!I mean you think when someone cuts your hands off you would run and try to get away and beg for your like as we seen in japanese movies. instead he falls to his knees, that was kinda weak. Dooku gave in to anakin? there's no way that happened, dooku died like a punk and with no memorable death.

 

It was Christopher Lee's request that Dooku remain silent when his character's hands are severed. He cited that his experiences in the military, years ago, showed that is not the case in real life. Lucas consented with that. There was also some dialogue cut out, also at the request of Lee since he felt that Dooku would be too proud to beg for mercy. Here's how it originally went.

PALPATINE: "Good, Anakin, good. Well done. Kill him. Kill him now."

DOOKU: "But you promised me amnesty."

PALPATINE: "I lied."

ANAKIN: "I shouldn't."

PALPATINE: "Do it!"

Dooku in both versions was led to believe that Palpatine would step in and order Anakin to spare his life, if the boy won. Instead, at that moment, he revealed to Dooku his true intentions.

 

Obi-Wan is instrumental in bringing about Anakin's fall later on -- Anakin has a vision of Obi-Wan tending to Padme, Obi-Wan appears at a critical juncture in Anakin and Padme's discussion, and Obi-Wan leaves Anakin for dead on a lava bank. It worked out better for Sidious that way. His instruction to Anakin at the start of the film is revealing: Anakin has to "leave" Obi-Wan and the Jedi way or they'll never make it as master and slave (Sidious and Vader).

 

The bit about amnesty was also left in the novelization.

 

Yeah, but he wants Obi-wan dead. That was the whole point to begin with. Dooku was supposed to kill Obi-wan and then Anakin had to kill Dooku, in a fit of rage. Then, everything would be as it should be. But Dooku failed to kill Obi-wan and Anakin did not turn yet. His refusing to leave Obi-wan to die, since Palpatine knows that time is of the essence and that the Hand will wind up be destroyed, believes that this should suffice. Anakin's refusal makes it clear that Palpatine needs a plan B.

Most likely because Stover wasn't aware of the change or didn't think that he should have to leave it out.

 

Yeah, but you're always looking at the literal side of things. Palpidious MAY HAVE adapted his plan, but it worked out better for him, actually. On the other hand, I wonder if he was naive enough to believe that Anakin would just leave Obi-Wan after all those years together. He HAD to have a better handle on Anakin than that.

 

I don't think Palpatine wanted Obi-wan to fight Anakin and mess him up. That kinda ruins his plans for the boy. When Obi-wan is on Utapau, he is expected to die at the hands of either General Grievous or Order 66 when it's time comes. Palpatine didn't forsee Yoda and Obi-wan surviving, much less the battles that ocurred. As to Padme, Obi-wan did help light the fuse, but Palpatine would eventually use her involvment with Bail Organa and the others as a means of turning Anakin against her.

 

I agree with you there. However, Anakin is just mentally hate-filled enough, but just physically damaged enough, to actually be a better apprentice for Sidious. What if a full (or almost full) bodied Anakin had lived on? I think he would have ended up killing Sids much sooner. It's one of the many immensely clever aspects of the story. Y'know, the situation of the PT is contrived to fit in with the OT, and that very aspect of contrivance actually makes the final outcome even more sublime.

A very good point -- and another reason I do actually agree with your general assessment.

I suppose he would have. We even see the seeds of this very approach in the deleted scenes. Nice catch.