Why does everyone think Suited Vader is so weak?

Why does everyone think Suited Vader is so weak?
I know he is older, and he is only 80% of Sids, but still.
A broken Vader is stronger than 98% of the Jedi.

Foreman was old and slow,when he won the Title.
Farve is old and banged up. He is still better than most QB's.

I still think Vader is strong.
What do you think?

 

He is strong in the darkside of the Force, that is for sure.

 

He's not weak, but he is weaker.

The Rolling Stone article has GL saying that the suited Vader is weaker, like at 80%, so now he's just above Dooku or Maul in power.

So 80% is still better than a "regular" Sith Lord or Jedi Master.

 

He's not weak, but he is weaker.

Exactly. He's still perfectly capable of crushing most people, but as Anakin he potentially could've beaten everyone...Yoda, Palpatine, Obi-Wan, you name it. Everyone.

 

Good question, dat_dude. I don't know why eveyone thinks suited Vader is so weak. He's not. He's been deceived by empty promises. He probably wants to yell out to the Emperor like a woman in labor does to her husband "YOU DID THIS TO ME, YOU BASTARD!!!!!!!!! He's full of rage, & guilt for not realizing what he was getting into.

 

Well it's damn frustrating, especially how some of the people over on the ROTS boards think Vader is a weak cripple.
I think the posts here are good and accurate, I agree that Vader in the suit will kick ass. Admittidly he is weaker then what Anakin would of become as you all said. 80% the power of Palpatine is enough to be a powerful sith lord in my book. And you don't get much cooler then Vader in the OT.

 

I think it depends on what you're relating it to.

He's strong in the sense that, like you said, he's probably stronger than 98% of all jedi/sith. He's IMO ahead of Dooku/Maul. He might be more powerful than anyone other than yoda/sids.

But if you're comparing him to what he could have been, then he's considerably weaker.

It's all in what perspective you're looking at it from.

 

That actually made me laugh,its so dang true though.

Vader is totally powerful,h ecould have crushed luke in ESB,he fought with one hand half the time,and,I still stand true to thinking he went easey on Luke in ROTJ,and didnt expect him to attack so hard.

Another thing I am sick of is people thinking Vader is old at the end of ROTJ, big frickity do, he's what 45? we only think he looks old cause of Shaw. I understand he would be pale-no sunlight,and scars just dont disapear,but I always thought he looked to aged,even if he was and a little stress.

 

On the ROTS boards, everyone thinks Suited Vader would get creamed by, Maul,Dooku,Mace and Plo Koon. I dont understand. ???????????????

 

It mainly has to do with how well the PT duels were constructed compared to the OT duels. The OT duels don't compare, and that makes everyone think that they are infinitely weaker.

 

a couple things to consider,

as the natural body is replaced by machinery, more than likely the force doesn't flow as well.

that suit, while cool looking sure didn't look very, functional in the movment department.

and since it appeared the medical driods did a somewhat.. hasty job of putting him back together, his newer limbs might not have had the responce of the older one.

 

I agree that he is'nt as powerful as he COULD be, but seriously, If he would have fought someone REALLY challenging (not saying Luke and Obi-wan were easy) in the OT you would know he still had power. We saw him move objects while fighting Luke and such. If he isn't powerful compared to others he sure has drive and determination to complete the tasks that are handed to him.

 

he is a lot stronger in the darkside of the force, but is really lame fighting with his lightsaber, so basically the suited vader is weaker with the lightsaber but way stronger in the force
Why he is weaker with the lightsaber? obi-wan practically killed him, his hands and legs are all machine, which slow down his stamina, so when he is fighting with his lightsaber he is practically a fighting machine.

 

Surge is right. He's just not the fast youngun he used to be.

 

I dissagree. I still firmly belive that Vader is the strongest Sith/Jedi of them all.

- So what if he is mostly a machine? He is strong enough he could use the force to manipulate those appendages as needed.

- I belive it is implied that he learned to cheat death utilizing the force. I mean come on he was a mangled, crippled, burning heap. Like you could survive that.

- He is only weaker than Palps in the fact that his breathing apparatus could be shut down with the lightning force.

- Its hard to make him look good when the movies are from the 70s. If the OT was remade today then Vader would be heads and shoulders above the rest. The choreograph would be alot better and would show his true skill with the light saber.

At any rate most of everything is specualtion. I belive he is the strongest Jedi/Sith ever because thats what I want to belive.

 

if he was the strongest sith/jedi why did he lose to obi-wan in ROTS?, why didnt he try overthrow the emperor any of the classics? because he knew he couldnt. the only problem with anakin is that he is so arrogant. sure i agree, anakin is one of the strongest jedi/sith maybe in the top 3 but the not strongest of all.

 

I think we mostly mean weaker in a physical sense, especially when "the suit" first appears...you've just had your legs chopped of at the knee and you were burnt to a crisp..so physically you need to learn to walk again, and because of the burns you probably don't regain full physical strength. Obviously the wounds fueled his hate which made his force use stronger....And look at his lightsaber duels on film in the suit from IV, V & VI: he didn't really look that physically overwhelming vs. Obi-Wan on the Death Star besides being younger, then Kenobi "takes one for the team" and becomes one with the Force..the duel on Bespin, Luke was nowhere near ready for that fight (from a experience/training standpoint) and took his lumps accordingly. In the rematch, he easily defends himself until he plays with his anger and kicks daddy's butt rather easily. Like I've posted over in the ROTS forum, the highest midichlorian count and being called the chosen one doesn't prove you're the most powerful. I personally don't see anything in any of the movies to think he was anything "all powerful" compared to any Jedi or Sith Lord.

 

The duels are not as flashy. Common sense says. That is because the movies are older. Not as much time was spent on the duels. Not much was explained about the Jedi. We did not know about Sith back then. Dark and Light that all there was.

Vader may be part machine, but it makes him stronger.
More physical strength behind his swings.

 

just like i said, jedimaster11 is completley right, good explanation

 

I know Luke beat him with little force training, but Luke has Skywalker blood. Sids feels him and tells Vader to find him. The force is strong in him. He could destroy us both. Sid Says. If he could destroy Sids and Vader,Luke is no lightwieght.

 

Look at where the mechanical parts are..knee down and elbow down. Not a lot of physical strength comes from the elbow down, except for grip...In the OT he fought an old man to a stand off before he drops his guard, and beats a "kid" who barely knows how to swing a lightsaber. We all see Vader get pushed around by Luke in ROTJ...

 

"Its hard to make him look good when the movies are from the 70s. If the OT was remade today then Vader would be heads and shoulders above the rest. The choreograph would be alot better and would show his true skill with the light saber"

I agree with that comment General_Brat...

I still think we would have needed to see him have more of a challenge in the OT to test that theroy (which isn't going to happen) Dueling has come a long way since the 70's.

Also we have seen how mental state can affect fighting skills.. like in EP: I when Maul loses because he gets too sure of his skills. as stated above (people are posting ahead of me I'm a SLOW TYPER) Vader/Anakin's arrogance can get in the way, So generally, Its not how much power you have, its how you use it.

 

The duels are not as flashy. Common sense says. That is because the movies are older. Not as much time was spent on the duels. Not much was explained about the Jedi. We did not know about Sith back then. Dark and Light that all there was.

Vader may be part machine, but it makes him stronger.
More physical strength behind his swings.


well your are right about the duels being lame because they are in fact old, but i disagree with you vader being part machine makes him alot stronger, it actually doesnt, vader is never at his full potential when he used to be because of his wounds, in ESB when he tries to strike down luke, he is breathing heavily, and is tired, vader cant fight in a duel for long because he is so heavy and slow. his swings are alot stronger, but have realy slow recovering, like a stated early, his speed and stamina went way down after his injury

 

Sorry to be a myth buster. And remember what Yoda tells Luke when he asks if the Dark Side is more powerful: "NO. Quicker, more seductive."

 

I'm sure if Lucas redid the Classic triolgy now. We would think Luke and Vader, where the top dogs.