Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?

Ok........

I've been reading a lot of Fan Fiction stories recently, mostly Anakin and Padme centred ones.

And it has to be said that it seems that in every story that involves Anakin and Padme, not just this one, every one, Padme hardly ever seems to use her head that well. As in, she always falls for Anakin, even if he is a horrible mass murderer, even if he is Vader. Why is that kind of story so attractive, when it just shows Padme giving into brutal male chauvinism and sexism and losing all of her freedom?

But it applies to the movies as well............why is she so attracted to someone five years younger than her? It's hardly normal for a woman to have a boyfriend, let alone a husband, when she's five years his senior in age, is it? Especially at that age.

But that's the thing - to me, the love story throughout the whole of the PT, even in the films where Anakin was "nice", although I'd hardly call him that, and he was still unashamedly sexist in ROTS(one of the film's few mistakes, IMO) - never made sense. Padme in AOTC was an intelligent politician. And she fell for a reckless, dangerous teenage Jedi who was always five years younger than her and married him, even though she knew, as she said in their conversation in AOTC by the fireplace that she could never fall in love with him or marry him. And yet she gave into it, even though it added up to being three things that were totally against her principles:

1. It's illegal for a Jedi to have a relationship, which she and he knew, so she should have pushed him away, as a mature politician would have done. Instead, she fell for him like a 15 year old girl who was helplessly in love with a 19 year old guy, even though she was actually a 24 year old woman, and didn't care about breaking the law. Which is totally irresponsible of her.

2. She was a Senator, and yet she had children with a Jedi, even though that's not only illegal, but also destroys her career and turns her into a housewife to a man five years younger than her!!!?!?!? Why would she want that? I know it's what led to Luke and Leia, but to be honest, in my opinion, the way AOTC and ROTS totally destroyed the character of Padme that had been built up in TPM - turning her from a strong, clever, independent, tough, moral, and responsible teenager into first an arrogant and sort of responsible senator, and then into a helpless housewife who had no freedom and no rights.........what on earth was up with that?

I honestly am begnning to think that Luke and Leia's mother should have been another girl who Anakin fell in love with and probably married, who was younger than him rather than older - that would have made a lot more sense, and also, she wouldn't be a politician.

If anything, it's Obi-Wan that Padme should have fallen in love with.

3. She was shown in the earlier part of TPM and AOTC to be placing her personal life as less important than her work in the Senate, because she cared more about helping others than having a good life for herself. An admirable goal. And then she abandons it when a 19 year old guy who just happens to be a Jedi and who is also arrogant, reckless, irresponsible, disobedient, sexist, and occasionally stupid comes along, and she loses her career, her freedom, her principles, and in the end, her life. She lost all sense of helping others by ROTS. Well, not all sense, but a lot of it. Especially when she at first trusts Anakin over Obi-Wan even though Obi-Wan would never lie to her, and doesn't realise and accept that Anakin really has become the mosnter known as Vader until she actually sees how he has changed. That seems pretty stupid of her to me - she goes after him like an easily frightened person, not strong or free at all, even though she should be easily mature and responsible enough to understand what Obi-Wan meant, and to believe him, as he was indeed right. But she didn't, because somehow, getting together with Anakin destroyed the more sane and rational part of her brain, not to mention a lot of her intellect and

 

I agree with many of your points though I don't think it's that Lucas became sexist. I think it's a problem that arises out of Lucas wanting to foreshadow Anakin's fall by having him be arrogant, abrasive, fascist, and petulant while he is depicting a older courtship style romance between them.

This results in thehttp://betaboards.theforce.net/PostForms/PostReply.aspx?brd=10669&topic=27868067
Jedi Council Forums - Post Reply supposedly moral Padme falling for someone who has recently admitted that he was a genocidal child killer. It would be akin to a soldier razing a village in Vietnam and then a woman falling for him because of it. It also makes Padme seem xenophobic because she seems shocked that Anakin would slaughter Younglings even though she knows for a fact that he slaughtered Tusken children three years prior.

There is also the decision to have Padme stand around her apartment for much of RotS. We occasionally see her walking in after a day at the Senate and see her there in the "So this is how liberty dies." scene, but other than that she's simply standing around in the apartment other than those and Mustafar. This wasn't originally the case however with Padme helping Bail Organa and Mon Mothma create what would eventually become the Rebellion. This I think would be far more in-character for someone like Padme rather than simply standing by and watching what is happening(it's not what she did, but it's the impression RotS gives.)

Of course there's the question of "Why did Lucas do this?" I think it is partially to hammer home that the Prequel protagonists other than Obi-Wan, aren't people to really look up to. Padme dies rather than helping defeat the Empire she put in power, Anakin becomes the iron fist of an authoritarian government, and then of course Obi-Wan decides to keep fighting through watching Luke. This leads to the contrast between Luke, Leia, and Han. Leia has everything she has ever known other than the Rebellion destroyed in an instant by the Empire, yet she keeps fighting. Luke has his "parents" killed and what he believes are the the facts about his life shattered, yet he keeps fighting. Han starts out as someone who will run when the going really gets tough, yet he keeps fighting. Luke and Leia simply surpassed their parents as moral people.

 

^I'd agree. Although my read of Anakin & Padme's characters is that they're role reversals from Luke & Leia-while Luke & Leia's love redeems the people around them and saves the galaxy (Han from being the GFFA equivalent of a dope smuggler, and well, I don't need to describe what Vader is), Anakin & Padme's love winds up destroying everyone around them, and casting the galaxy into slavery.

 

There's a lot of talk about Luke redeeming Anakin. Luke's actions somehow working to erase the mistakes of the father. I think more accurately, and less discussed, is the idea of the CHILDREN atoning for the sins of the PARENTS. Had Padmé been perfect in AOTC and ROTS, then there it's all on Anakin. I must say I like the idea of Luke AND Leia redeeming their parents and working to atone for the mistakes made by Anakin and Padmé.

 

It is really a bit strange how Padme's character progresses; she almost seems to go backwards[/s]. Instead of her character growing, she becomes less capable and mature as she gets older. Weird. TPM Padme and ROTS Padme are almost two different people, and not in a good way (unlike Obi-Wan, for instance.)

As for marrying someone so much younger than her, I thinkthat's the least of the weirdness. Women who are very capable and independant (like TPM and early-AOTC Padme) often look less for a man to take care of them, but rather one they can take care of.

Lucas explained her still caring about Anakin after the Tuskan thing, as that it's like when you have a family member who's mentally ill; you don't stop loving them for it. But while that does work as an explanation, it doesn't explain why she didn't recognize that he really needed help about it. It's one thing to keep loving him, another entirely to pretend it was okay.

ROTS Padme did indeed seem to do nothing but sit around all day, though I tend to give her some slack seeing as she was pregnant. It would have been interesting to see what ROTS Padme would have done when she saw the temple burning had she not been pregnant. I would like to think that she would have gone to see what was going on, like Bail did... But by the time of ROTS, I'm not even sure if it was in her character anymore to be so go-get-em.

If they'd left in her starting the rebellion with Bail and Mon Mothma, it would have given her a lot more depth in ROTS. And, semi-relatedly, if they'd put in the line in the novel where after the announcement of the Empire she says to Bail that she doesn't think she's going to live much longer, it would have made her death seem a little less pathetic too (like she saw it coming, and it was something beyond her to change.)

I like the idea of Luke and Leia surpasing their parents too, which they very much did.

 

I had no idea about that line but it would be great.

 

I couldn't agree more with the overall view of this thread's author.
Padme clearly regressed as the PT wore on. How can WE rationalize the fact that she married Skywalker less than 48 hours after he eradicated an entire Tusken camp? The answer is in the film. Truly, she must have been blinded by her love.

 

Wasn't there a cut plotline in TPM with Padme and the Naboo hating the Gungans for being aliens?

 

IIRC, it was in the early version of the script.
Methinks Anakin's line about them being animals was just that, a line.
But it served well enough to allow Padme to justify Anakin's actions as much as he did.

But, yeah... she was a xenophobe in my book.

 

As in, she always falls for Anakin, even if he is a horrible mass murderer, even if he is Vader. Why is that kind of story so attractive, when it just shows Padme giving into brutal male chauvinism and sexism and losing all of her freedom?


WT*?????


Padme clearly regressed as the PT wore on. How can WE rationalize the fact that she married Skywalker less than 48 hours after he eradicated an entire Tusken camp? The answer is in the film. Truly, she must have been blinded by her love.


DJK edit: There's no need to attack users here. Discuss the films, not the fans.

 

DJK edit: Removing the quote.

You can control if you act on it, as Padme herself did for most of Episode 2. We're also not saying love is about finding some hypothetical ideal person with no flaws, that's not going to happen. However there's a gulf of difference between "good person with some flaws" and "guy who just told you he slaughtered innocent women and children."

 

Such negativity!
Why do you constantly attack the posters?


DJK edit: Removed the quote and the last comment. Let's watch the baiting.

 

Alright, let's cool it in here, guys. This is a discussion, which means everyone is entitled to their opinion but let's keep the opinions focused on the topic and the films, not the fans. Now let's get back on topic.

 

The reason Padme "falls" for Anakin (which isn't even happening after his admission of killing the Raiders in Episode II) is because of what she witnessed in Episode I.

Padme doesn't fall for Anakin. As seen with her character in Episodes I and II, she's a fixer. She must fix things. She must look after everyone and everything.

Seeing as she knows how important Anakin's mother was to him and his strained relationship with Obi-Wan, she feels that she needs to look after him. It's not until she thinks that they're about to meet certain death does she use the word "love." Which, again, is not really it. It was a mistake for her to say that to Anakin but by the end of Episode II, it's too late to take it back. She knows that he has no one, despite his master.

It is in between Episodes II and III (not using EU...)that Padme has, indeed, fallen for Anakin. You can just tell in her opening scenes in Episode III.

I would not say Padme regressed from Episode I to Episode III. I would say her priorities changed with the idea of a family. Given that, she still helps, just more directly towards Anakin. I mean, she does, in fact, plead with Anakin to talk to Palpatine. By her own admission, she's still apart of the Senate.

It's not sexist to say a woman shipped her priorties once she finds out that she's about to have a baby. I would agree with the opening post if Padme did not mention the Senate or the affairs of the Republic anywhere in Episode III. But, she does mention those affairs enough to get the point across that she's still heavily involved...to a point.

Again, her marriage and this pregnancy is a secret. There's only so much she can do.

 

Bingo. Padme was an idiot for allowing herself to justify Anakin's actions against the Tuskens. Had Lucas left in her little snippet about the Gungans from TPM, then MAYBE. As it is, she looks pompous and shallow for crying to him about killing the younglings after she didn't even offer a rebuke for his slaughter of the whole Tusken camp.

Its almost like there were two Padme's:
Padme from TPM and Padme from the other two.

She changed alright, and it wasn't for the better.

 

Sith,

That's two totally different situations. The guy just lost the most important thing in his life at the particular time. Do you think it was really wise for Padme to chastise him during that time?

It was wrong. But, Padme's instincts kicked in at that moment. She knew of the importance of Grandma Skywalker to Anakin. She knew that Anakin really didn't have anyone, considering his strained relationship with his master. Being the fixer she is, she decided, in that moment, to watch over him, despite what he did. That's why they got married at the end of Episode II.

It has nothing to do with love. It's about taking the place of his mother. It's also about Padme grabbing a bit of happiness (selfish happiness) before the storm hits in the galaxy. They both know it's coming. For Anakin, it's pure love and some obsession. For Padme, she's intrigued and does, indeed, like him. But, it's not love yet.

That comes in between Episodes II and III.

 

I have not walked a meter; much less a mile, in either of their boots... so I'm not sure of the wisest course of action. I can only offer my POV, and I think that Padme's indifference to the Tusken slaughter was appalling. There is no justification for what Anakin did. None whatsoever.

Anakin wasn't supposed to have anyone, he was a Jedi. She knew more about being Jedi than Anakin did if you consider their dialogue on the refugee transport and later-on by the fireplace on Naboo.

This is a good topic to debate for sure!

 

I think the way her character progresses througout the films is completely realistic. At first we see her as a idealistic young Queen from Naboo who believes firmly in doing the right thing for her people, and fighting for her people at all costs. In the second film she is still doing that as a senator, but she does seem a little burnt out from the stress she had as Queen. What some fail to understand is by the end of the third film when Sidious creates the Empire, that everything she fought for, all the principles she stood for, were for nothing, she was deceived by an individual whom she thought was an ally, in the end she made the wrong decisions, she feels responsibility, and she is mortified that everyone is following his lead, and that her dream of peace is for not!

 

Sith,

Sure, Anakin isn't suppose to have anyone. And true, Padme knew this. That doesn't change the fact that Padme sees Anakin at his lowest point in his brief life. This young kid is devastated. And being the compassionate person she is, of course, she was going to comfort him. It's not about what he did. It's about what he just endured to the one thing that was most precious to him in the whole galaxy.

Even the rational, always thinking Padme wasn't going to deny him some comfort.

 

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Now, we might not be able to agree on everything - I do enjoy lots of aspects of the prequels despite these shortcomings in the love story, and I do not dislike the prequels or believe that they are poorly acted. But that's ok, we might not agree on these things, but we can agree that the love story could have been done better.

Exactly. What kind of a woman would fall in love with a guy like that?

And even worse, then become a housewife and lose her ability to fight and to think and act freely?

Maybe if her personality was totally different - say, more cynical, cruel, and authoritarian - then, I can see them getting on very well realistically, even after he became Vader. But that wouldn't be the same Padme, and I doubt Natalie Portman would be able to portray a cynical, cruel, ruthless Padme who was in any way like Palpatine.

There would need to be a totally different actress.

If she had any sense of morality, yes.

You mean her instincts overcame her caution, her mind, and her intellect. That's how it came across in AOTC, to me. Like a teenage girl who was helplessly in love with a guy who was:

1. Immature

2. Occasionally idiotic

3. Reckless

4. Sexist - in believing that Padme was the woman he was going to marry and that this would always be true, yes that is sexist, to believe that someone will definitely want to be with you and marry you even when you haven't seen them for ten years. Either that or he was deranged, and I doubt he was truly deranged until the latter half of ROTS after he starting killing people left and right(the younglings, the separatists), so yes, he was sexist, or at least controlling. It's like, he thought that Padme was fated to marry him, and that nothing could stop that. What if she already had a boyfriend or fell in love with another man before she even met him again? What right would he have to interfere with anything she does if that was the case?

5. Obsessive about many things

6. Disobedient, invariably frequently ignoring the Jedi Code.

All of this adds up to making her look immature and stupid for suddenly being so attracted to him, a guy who was not only possessing all of these negative above qualities, but also five years younger than her. Why should she be attracted to him at all?

Seriously, I mean, I'm not a basher, I do like the prequels, but why couldn't Lucas have just found another girl for him to fall in love with? Preferably one who was younger and not a senator. Then maybe he could be attracted to Padme too, and this could have created a Love Triangle of sorts, but he would not marry Padme or father her children at all. There was nothing before the prequels came out that ever said that a woman called Padme Amidala was Luke and Leia's Mother, was there?

If not, then there's no reason she had to be the one who filled that role. She could have filled another role, perhaps even as his enemy, but maybe as an even closer friend of, say, Obi-Wan.

 

I believe you should read "Star Wars On Trial". In it, there is a chapter that focuses on this subject, and how Padme and Leia are and were written to be weak.

 

I would definitely suggest reading it as well. You may not agree with every point she makes, but it was interesting none the less.

 

She?

 

She = The person who wrote the argument about Leia and Padme becoming weak by the end of their respective trilogies in Star Wars on Trial.