Why is paintball stuff so popular as props?

Honestly, it's getting a tad on my nerves how much paintball stuff is being used as props for fan films. I play paintball every weekend, it's pretty much my only hobby other then StarWars. I can understand some of the stuff may look like foriegn to alot of the population, but the second I see a paintball gun or mask being used, it just murders my willful suspension of disbeleif. For example, I just watched a non Star Wars fanfilm, and the hero of the story whips out a Pirahna (entry level marker, $75-$125) and shoots threw a car window to kill a driver. Now I'm left here thinking about how a paintball gun couldn't do either of those 2 things. It just kills whatever momentum the film had.
More commonly then the use of markers in the films are the use of masks (Dualty-the one Sith lord had a Raven Nuvis mask, FX project The Protector- JT Elite system). Now consider who the average fanfilmer is, 13-35 year old male, right? What guy that age doesn't know what a paintball mask looks like? Sorry for ranting, but it just seems like if you're going to use store bought props, they shouldn't be so..."earthy", shall we say.

[/whining]

Your thoughts?

 

I totally agree! I mean, how difficult would it be to gather up some junk laying around and with some rattle can spray paint and some 3m double back tape, convert these store-bought items into futuristic sci-fi equipment?

 

I don't care. Plastic lightsaber props, paintball stuff, it doesn't matter to me. I always appreciate a good story.

 

I appreciate a good story as well, but this is a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away as I needn't remind you.

This makes my think again, unjustified props- don't most props only subtract from the story if they don't have real purpose in it? Not sure how to explain it, but many of you may be familiar with Earnst Hemingway's Iceburg Theory- only 1/8 of the story is seen by the audience, "the tip", but the rest must exist to create foundation, it's "under the water" if you will. Will this was developed with the literary in mind, it is also a great guideline for film making. Applied to this scenario- why is the mask being used? In the alternative reality of Star Wars does it exist as a personal Heads Up Display? Prehaps an air filter of some sort? Just using it because it looks cool doesn't cut it. Especially for me, because I know the rest of the real world iceburg (how well it preforms, my personal opinion of the manufacturer, etc.).

Sorry to dwelve this deep, but I've nothing better to do.

 

cause it is cheap, and the mass population don't regularly play paintball, but wait wait wait...


You are going to let a painball mask ruin a film rather than complaining about horrible acting or CG effects, etc.?



















...................

 

I think you may not understand his point. It is a point that I feel the same way about so I can relate.

If you are watching a movie and I don't just mean a fanfilm but also any kind or genre of movie, and someplace in during the movie they try to sell you on the idea that a certian prop is a certian thing and you happen to recognize it as something entirely different, it throws a wrench into the cogs of the suspension of disbelief.

F.I. Lets say you are watching a movie about drag racing cars. And someone pops the hood and is showing their buddy some new high performance component that somehow grants their engine 100 extra horse power. "wow!" says the friend. But you recognize the item as the base off of a food processor. Doesn't that kinda ruin things for you? If not, then I guess you can go about your movie going business and ignore this thread completely.
I for one am turned off by this type of thing.
Now I know people can't afford to have custom props made for their fan films. I know I certianly can not, but as I said in my reply to this topic above it is not hard to scrounge up a few odds and ends, paint them flat black and silver, attach some double back tape to them and then attach them to a paint ball face mask or gun in order to transform it into a device that is not so easily recognizable.

I don't know if people just get lazy and wanna just shoot film for shooting films sake or not, but it really can't take more than a few hours to prep a few items this way and maybe $10 dollars on some spray paint and tape.

Example. take an empty paper towel tube, paint it flat black, put some plastic food wrap over both ends and some rubber bands to hold it in place. Next, get some black electrical tape and tape over the rubber bands. Attach some double back tape along one side and stick it to the side of whatever blaster substitute you have. INstant scope! Same device probably needs some kind of new barrel. Get some cheap #2 pencils from Target, say hi to the hot target girl while you are checking out, saw off about 1 inch per side, paint them flat black, use some double back tape to attach about 6 of them around the end of the barel to give it a sci-fi super barrel look.
You don't ruin your original gun, you just peel off the tape when you are done.

Doesn't take a whole lot of thought, money, or time and it doesn't risk damaging the suspension of disbelief that some people enjoy.

Just opinions and thoughts here. Not attempting to start any arguments.

I happen to have a full face goggle mask that I have for ATV dirt riding that I have wanted to use in a film. Hot pink with aqua high-lights. I am sure adding a paint mask circular filter onto the bottom along with some automotive wire loom covering in some loops and swirls along with more black paint with maybe some grey smudges will make it look something like what I saw in "New Hope"

-Mike

 

I think you're over reacting.
People might use Paintball equiptment rather then Prop guns because plastic prop guns are getting old.
Paintball guns have a different look, and the average person would think it's some kind of 'super' gun.
But in proper 'Hollywood' movies, if they do it properly, most of the time, you won't notice that it's something that you probably have lying around your basement.
the only time I've really noticed, and hated it. Is in XXX, Vin Diseal pulls out a rocket launcher. It's nothing more then a cardboard tube, strapped to a Mini-Dv Camera. It completly sickened me. They couldn't at least try to make it look nicer or anything?
Anyway, my point is that you should take movies for what they are. Not to pick apart every detail and item. Enjoy the movie for what it's worth.

 

I think the props should look as good as the CG and other FX. If you have real professional FX, and stupid props, then the props WILL detract from the film.

I speak from past experience.

 

well if you are able to recognize a food processor then you have bigger problems than this to worry about

 

Nicely said JediN_Nick

Look at it this way, you're were a retired photographer, and you took your grandson to see StarWars back in 1977, ok? So humbum bum, shoot shoot, choke choke, beep beep, you're in Obi-Wan's home. How would you feel if you were able to recognize the Graflex flash gun (the body of the origninal lightsaber) right off the bat from your past work? But Lucas and Company did exactly what we've said to it, added parts and peices to make it no longer a lightbulb charger, but a new entity- our first encounter with a lightsaber. It's not a huge point, but just one of the finer details that separates decent films from the great ones.

 

And don't forget about Spy Wars!.

I'm sure George Lucas gets tired of seeing us use his hobbie props for our amusement as well, such as light sabers...tie fighters...Jedi etc. etc.

So this is my dilemma:
1. I used a paint ball mask in my movie.
2. We have a duel "in the woods".
3. We have a sith and a Jedi.
4. Unexperienced actors.
5. We shot with a video camera.
6. We have light sabers in our film (no double sabers though)...thank god huh!
7. Vader appears in our film (George will most likely be upset!)

Any suggestions?

Oh and did I mention that my hobby was Light Saber Banging and we get together on weekends and bang sabers. What I really hate is to see someone use light Sabers in their film because that is my Hobby!!

Do you get the drift yet?
You have two options..."change the channel" or live with paintball props in fanfilms.

I'm also working on a WW11 film and we are using period armour, helemets, BDU's etc... I hope you are not in the military, it may ruin it for ya.

Peace

 

So "dont pick apart every detail"... yet.. you say you were sickened by the rocket launcher in XXX, and went into "detail" to describe what it was made out of.

Riiiiiight.

 

Let's keep it civil guys.

Junfanman, call me crazy, but I kinda expect lightsabers in a StarWars fan film. Goofy I know. Heh, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Some of the paintballstuff I don't mind, after the first 20 seconds of seeing in Dualty, I didn't mind, because it fit. Raven's are wierd looking masks, and it had a reflective lense as well. I don't really see why their faces had to be covered in the first place, but that's just me.

 

DyeJedi, my point is this:

We are AMATEURS and we use what we can however we can to tell a story. Obviously Light sabers go in the Star Wars universe but some folks actually hate seeing them in fanfilms because it's "over used" in their opinion. And did I mention the folks that whine about the "Forest Duels"?

When you are like most folks here, you don't have million dollar budgets to have authentic costumes etc., you make it with what you can. I made 90% of the costumes for my fanfilm simply because it was CHEAPER.

Peace

 

Junfanman: When you are like most folks here, you don't have million dollar budgets to have authentic costumes etc., you make it with what you can. I made 90% of the costumes for my fanfilm simply because it was CHEAPER.

I am sitting here trying to think of the best way to respond to this and writing this sentence is the only way I could start... ok, well here is the thing:

you don't have to have a million dollar budget to take an ordinary flash light and disguise it as a light saber. You don't really even need a budget of thousands of dollars to take some American football shoulder pads and turn it into some kind of alien body armor. Nor do you need a budget of hundreds of dollars to convert a paint ball gun into a blaster. All these things can be accomplished with a budget of fives of dollars and a little extra time after work/school. I don't know why it is so difficult to recognize this simple truth.

The original point that I got from this thread was not only about paint ball items, but the general idea that people take over the counter items and try to pass them off as items from a galaxy far far away. When I, as a viewer, see something easily recognizable as a certian brand and model of whatever item, it does in fact (at least to some of us) detract from the suspension of disbelief long enough to perhaps make us enjoy the movie less than we otherwise would.

That is the difference between effects tests and a finished product. It is understandable of someone says "hey, look at my light saber effect test" and they are swinging mag-lights around. You are not *supposed* to care what they are holding. It is just a simple prop for a simple test. I would *hope* that if they were to continue on and make a fan-film and submit it to this forum for review that they would at least take the extra effort to disguise the flashlight a little so we don't say "hey, that is the same flashlight I have!"
If you don't understand this point and/or jus don't care, then you probably never will. That is your decision, that is your business, and I personally am not trying to convert you to my way of thinking. I am simply raising a voice in support of the thread starter and perhaps someone who is about to start their own fan film may take a moment to consider this before swinging that perverbial flashlight around.

 

So my "modified" paintball mask will work?!? Yeah!!! Me so happy!!

Now...how bout the forrest thingy? You ok with that? We don't want all of the "newbies" to get off on the wrong foot now do we? Get us straight man!!


Actually I was talking to the original poster but to really answer the question ,"Why is paintball stuff so popular as props?"...Because that's what we want to use. Simple huh.

Peace

 

How would you feel if you were able to recognize the Graflex flash gun (the body of the origninal lightsaber) right off the bat from your past work?

From talking to photographers who saw ANH, it actually made them excited and they loved it.

How about the Lady's Gillette communicator that Qui-Gon used in Episode I. Did that spoil the film more than "Yippee"?

You do what you need to do to get the point of the story across without totally ejecting your audience from it.

M. Scott

 

...hell yeah filmakers rthrow stuff like this into their movies. It makes things fun. And, hey, cheap. For example...

Star Wars: A New Hope (1977)

Flash bars as lightsabers, model truck rims for the blastertips in the remote blaster droid, a guy with a stick for a bantha, thesticker from PacMan packaging for a decal on a droid, that crazy, in-box styrofoam packaging (yeah, I know, packaging used twice in a paragraph sounds redundant, but what could I say? Housing?) rom electronics cases for half the gizmos in the X-Wings.

Star Wars: The Phantom Menace (1999)

A scoopball paddle for a thing in Anakin's room. MORE used styro-packaging for vehicle parts in the junkyard, and an action figure, appendages removed, painted silver for a part of Anni's pod cabin.

Back to the Future II (1987)

Well, for starters, EVERY car in the 'future' is recognizable as an 80's car with about $80 of painted acrylic to make it look...different, aquarium tubing and christmas lights for the flux capacitor, and painted black shoebokes for the over-trunk unit of the DeLorean (only in part one, though.)

UHF (1988)

Notice, and I don't think anyone but myself has pulled this one out of their ass, that Uncle Harvey wears the same hat 'Uncle Nutzy' does in his show. Also, the electrical tape '8' on R.J. Fletcher's helmet in the helicopter dogfight (I feel like an ass saying this after Al pointed it out in the commentary. Now people just say 'No, you heard that in the commentary.' Then they fold their arms and act all superior. I noticed this like six years ago guys! Argh. Screw the commentary. Commentary commentary.) Plus (Commentary), you'll see that the camera Noodles carried around was, and no this isn't my 'before you're time you 16 year-old prick, ALL cameras were like that in the 80's' was nothing more than a box with with aluminum cans plastered on creatively.


Also, for you Canon fans, Pachelbel! Sorry, couldn't resist. No, for all you Canon fans, notice the subtle use of the XL-1S in The Italian Job, plus I noticed a character on Lizzie McGuire had one as well.


Fig

 

Junfanman: Now...how bout the forrest thingy? You ok with that? We don't want all of the "newbies" to get off on the wrong foot now do we? Get us straight man!!

Well I don't know, are these "newbies" going to include the "Welcome to Sequoia National Forest" sign in their backdrop? Because if they are not, then your above point does not apply to this discussion.

Dorkmanscott: You do what you need to do to get the point of the story across without totally ejecting your audience from it.

Without totally ejecting the audience from it is exactly right. But where is the balance? Where are the drawbacks? Too time consuming? To costly?

 

Well I don't know, are these "newbies" going to include the "Welcome to Sequoia National Forest" sign in their backdrop? Because if they are not, then your above point does not apply to this discussion.

I don't ever remember seeing any welcome signs or landmarks in any of the fanfilms I've seen...but the use of forrest in fanfilms has been an issue with some regardless.

What if your fanfilm is of a Fiday the 13th/Star Wars genere...can you use a "jason" mask?

I think DorkmanScott explained it well the first time.

Peace

 

If make it clear that you've mixed both FT13th and Star Wars together, as some sort of parody, then that's fine.

If you're going to use a paintball mask, atleast use on of the StarWars looking ones -

[/shameless JT plug]

But no really, if you just put some effort into it, it's ok. All it has to do is look like Star Wars, and not what it is. You wouldn't have a stormtrooper holding a toy Glock because you couldn't find a blaster, would you?

As for the woods, that's some what unrelated, while props can be altered for less then you're crew's trip to Pizza Hutt, location can be costly, or simply inaccessible.

If you can't afford to spice up your props, then how can you afford the programs to create your CG?

 

By downloading free ones, like Blender.

-Paul

 

Well I wanna get in on this.. I know I'm a newbie, I've never made a fan film, and that this post really ain't about paintball guns.. I know that I'm gonna get tarred and feathered for this, but here I go!!

I don't paintball so I couldn't tell a paintball gun from a custom made gun. Nor could I recognise a paintball mask. IF I had a gripe it would be lightsaber hilts. Yes, the hilt. Not the length of the blade, or the non-canon colors or how bad the fight may look or how slow, or any of that.. It's those super sized, long as my forearm, hilts. I know most people build their own, and they are also very proud of their designs and want to show them off. But god, some want to make sure their hilt can be seen clearly in EVERY shot.

Look yon Jedi emerges from the forest, is that a 3rd leg? No! That's his lightsaber hilt!!

And I'm not talking the double bladed hilts either. I'm talking good old fashioned single blade models. Single blade yet long enough for the actors 2 hands, 2 more hands, and room enough for a 7-Eleven and a decent sized parking lot! C'mon get a grip!! A smaller grip!! 10-12 inches long, 1.25-2 inches in diameter. Gahhhh..

Is that petty? Well no more petty than picking on paintball guns I guess...

Okay okay okay... So picking peoples lightsaber hilts is going to get me lynched. I deserve it.

 

Hmmm. Well, up until about 5 minutes ago, my crew and I were considering using paintball equipment for a few simple reasons.

1) It's relatively inexpensive.
2) It's easy to get ahold of.
3) It looks really cool!

Of course, we do plan on taking a few minutes out to "customize" the armor a bit . . . maybe mix it in with some dirt bike protective gear, as well . . .

Hey, how about this one: Anybody here ever taken a hot glue gun, cut off the power cord, painted it black, and called it a hold-out blaster? Huh?

Cuz, uh, well . . . that's another thing we plan on possibly doing.

 

Because they are easily accessible, cool looking, and the majority of the people (excluding yourself, of course) can't so easily identify them anyway.

I'm not into paintball. So It never bothered me.

The closest thing that I can relate is seeing Hasbro sabers in a film. I must admit that I cringe a little. But, at the same time, I realize that sabers are not easy to build. And, sometimes it's not necessary or practical. So it's certainly easy to forgive.
(I do believe that Art of the Saber II used a Hasbro saber - TOTALLY FORGIVABLE)

I think that the same thing should apply to paintball gear.