Why the marvel comics are an "official" part of the EU continuity

Despite DH's original attempts to disparage the Marvel comics (probably didn't want to give any credit to a competitor), there has been a recent surge of Marvel stuff used in other EU.

Check out this link:
http://homepages.go.com/~myuselessknowledge/swmarvel.html

Once you have read this, it is impossible to dismiss the Marvel comics as not part of the EU continuity.

(If I could I would use the term canon - but then the rabid moviefanboys would eat me up, so i'll avoid the term until they are enlightened).

Thank you and good night

 

RabidWolfe...
"Once you have read this, it is impossible to dismiss the Marvel comics as not part of the EU continuity."

It's always been impossible to dismiss the Marvel series. However, it wasn't always part of the EU since the EU has only been around under its official designation for about 5 years or so. However, the Marvel comics have ALWAYS been an official part of the Star Wars continuity. In fact, it's probably acceptable to say that the nine years of stories which ranged from prequel-era all the way beyond ROTJ comprise on of the MOST important parts of the continuity. There's always been Marvel references in the various products dating back to when the series was first cancelled.

 

Well - i did this mostly because there are a few EU types in this forum who often rip on Marvel

AND

In "Secrets of Shadows of the Empire" the book there is a passage from one of the continuity directors who said that Marvel wildly contradicts the continuity that DH and Del Rey were attempting to create

AND

The Unofficial guide to Star Wars books has a seperate listing for the marvel continuity (beacuse it 'doesn't fit in"

AND

Bob Vita's Unofficial encyclopedia lists Marvel stuff under "Arcana" and then forgets about it (it's badly proof read - he gets several spelling wrong - most notably Yincorr which he spell as Yinchon in the "arcana" section yet gets right in the "official SW stuff" section - but the "official" section doesn't mention that Yinchorr first appeared in marvel #86)

 

Sorry as much as I like the Marvel comics and hate going to this "debate" to be offical they would have to be recognised by the people in charge as being such.

Now I ahve been told by people in the know that LFL refuses to acknowledge the Marvel Comics as an official part of the EU continuum

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying that Gav . . .

 

Well, references to things in Marvel do not neccessarily validate all of Marvel across the board. It just means that those certain people or places exist in current continuity. I have no problem picking and choosing what things from Marvel are acceptible to be part of regular continuity, but taking it all is a huge mistake. There are too many continuity issues at stake, not to mention the fact there is a time issue (not enough time for all of it to take place). Unfortunately there are several high up pro-Marvel advocates that seem to be forcing all of Marvel into the current timeline when it hould just be leaked in via osmosis.

 

Theres some connections yes, but theres still contradictions left.

 

//Jaxxon

If the Marvels are ever reprinted, I pray they get special edition treatment and have a Gungan drawn over that abomination.

 

ROTFLOL!

 

No more Bucky O' Hare!

 

A few iota and smidgeon of references, now I anticipate E.T. is Canon as well. How about surmises with deductive syllogisms?

 

Rabid...
"Well - i did this mostly because there are a few EU types in this forum who often rip on Marvel..."

Yeah, seems like people will rip on anything around here. However, you DID manage to get a few facts incorrect as well as needlessly cloud the issue with fanfic...

"In 'Secrets of Shadows of the Empire' the book there is a passage from one of the continuity directors who said that Marvel wildly contradicts the continuity that DH and Del Rey were attempting to create..."

No such passage. There is ONE which mentions Marvel explicitly which states that it is marginal and they do not try to work it in NEW material. I will post the passage when I get home. However, since just about all "new" material from its demise in '86 up to present day, there's been attempts to tie new continuity back to it.

"The Unofficial guide to Star Wars books has a seperate listing for the marvel continuity (beacuse it 'doesn't fit in""

I'm sure I can find a bunch of unofficial sites which mention that the EU doesn't exist. This is meaningless to the discussion.

"Bob Vita's Unofficial encyclopedia lists Marvel stuff under "Arcana" and then forgets about it (it's badly proof read - he gets several spelling wrong - most notably Yincorr which he spell as Yinchon in the "arcana" section yet gets right in the "official SW stuff" section - but the "official" section doesn't mention that Yinchorr first appeared in marvel #86)"

Again, the fact that this source is Unofficial precludes it from any valid defense against Marvel.

The facts as we have them - Marvel was an official Star Wars product. That is not a point of debate. What is a point is whether it is part of some sort of continutiy. It is, because later products refer to it - the whole nature of "continuity." In fact, Lucasfilm said it's part of it, they just don't attempt to tie new stuff to it when they don't have to. It is essential, because it is part of the Essential Chronology of Star Wars. If you wish to find more about specific events, then refer to the series. If you wish to just know the summary, then the references should suffice for you.

It may have some problems, but no worse or better than the entire EU.

 

Gav...
"Now I ahve been told by people in the know that LFL refuses to acknowledge the Marvel Comics as an official part of the EU continuum"

I take it you've boycotted the Star Wars products after the end of the Marvel series in '86. It is acknowledged in anything from the RPG to the Bantam novels to the most recent products such as Essential Chronology and the NJO. Obviously, the people are only in the know about "jack."

 

Darth Ludicrous...
"Well, references to things in Marvel do not neccessarily validate all of Marvel across the board."


The same can be said of ANY of the items within the continuity. A reference is NOT the substitution for the actual events. For the full story, you always have to go to the source. Just like references to portions of SOTME or Thrawn Trilogy don't necessarily validate all of that item. All of these stories don't need outside validation, because they already are a part of continuity. However, it is nice to see relevent things mentioned like we've had in all of the times Marvel has been mentioned.

"It just means that those certain people or places exist in current continuity."

Because the source put them there. There aren't different "multiverses" in Star Wars like there are in say DC Comics, etc. Luke is Luke is Luke. Shira is Shira is Shira. Mara is Sh...Mara is Mara. But, someone who has been introduced in one item is available for introduction in the others. As "Secrets of Shadows..." points out, even the most marginal items are part of the larger story LFL's trying to tell.

"I have no problem picking and choosing what things from Marvel are acceptible to be part of regular continuity, but taking it all is a huge mistake."

However, the same can be said for the entire EU. The problem comes into play when different people pick and choose different items. There's one official picture of everything and that's the one LFL produces. They have Marvel as part of that continuity.

"There are too many continuity issues at stake, not to mention the fact there is a time issue (not enough time for all of it to take place)."

Again, same thing for the whole EU.

Fortunately...

"...there are several high up pro-Marvel advocates that seem to be forcing all of Marvel into the current timeline when it hould just be leaked in via osmosis."

Same thing can be said for the entire EU. Things like DE, Thrawn, JA Trilogy, etc. all get references into the current timeline. As you point out, Marvel gets their well-needed references as well, since it's no different. Therefore, Marvel IS part of any "current" continuity.

 

Wow look at him go

 

Let me make one small reflexion of Genghis's paradoxical red herring before I deviate from Marvel threads 4 evah. He hypothecates Marvel's variances is exonerated because some of the OC has variances and disaffirmations as well. Homogeneity 1st, Continuity 2nd. What happened to coherency?

 

Ooooo big words.

Well, what he said!

 

Genghis12 the reason I say that is because it is what I was told. I have read things that acknowledge the existance of the Marvel comics (such as the EC's mention of Shira Bria) but I WAS TOLD (ie not of my own opinion) that LFL were not too keen on the Marvel Comics and did not recognise them as "official".

While the authors may do then fair enough, and as I said in my previous post I loved what I read of the Marvel Comics.

Anyway, in 1986 I was 3 - you try and make sense of anything EU related at that ag!!!

 

Gohan...
"Let me make one small reflexion of Genghis's paradoxical red herring before I deviate from Marvel threads 4 evah. He hypothecates Marvel's variances is exonerated because some of the OC has variances and disaffirmations as well."

Yes, that is but one small reason why Marvel is no less valid.

"Homogeneity 1st, Continuity 2nd. What happened to coherency?"

That is something that has never been a part of the EU, or even the various levels of Canon to begin with. To try and arbitrarily fit it to one item without any others is ridiculous at best. Continuity by definition is tying together. That is something "newer" (dating all the way back to even pre-Bantam days) material has done with Marvel all along, even up to the most recent releases. To sumamrize for you...

Marvel was...
Marvel is...
Marvel shall be...

...part of Star Wars.

 

Ghengis, let me explain this. I don't think you're understanding my argument:

1:Screw Marvel Continuity. Lump it all together and toss it in the closet to be forgotten.
2:Accept only what was published after 1989 whether it was by West End Games, Dark Horse Comics, Bantam, or Del Rey.
3: If West End Games, Dark Horse Comics, Bantam, or Del Rey make reference to Hoojibs, then Hoojibs exist in current continuity, but not the Marvel Comic about them. If Rik Duel is referenced, then Rik Duel the man exists, but not neccessarily the Marvel Comic he appeared in. If a reference is made to Yinchorr, then yes, it is a real planet, but that doesn't make the Marvel Comic about it valid. Just like if Luke Skywalker is mention, that doesn't make any Marvel Comic he appeared in valid.
4: What it boils down to is this: Marvel is great for resources, for information to be used in current continuity. But storywise, it just sucks so bad. contradicts so much, it has no business being included.

 

Osmosis is the key here. It's prolly the key between the prequels and the EU as well. Let things flow together, dont just mash them up and hope it looks pretty. Everything will get resolved eventually, but somethings will get surgically removed. Its like calculas, a lot of the marvel comics are removable discontinuities...


Lucky

 

DL is the man!!!!! he's DEAD SEXY!!!!! hehe

 

Darth Ludicrous...
"Ghengis, let me explain this. I don't think you're understanding my argument:"

No, I do. However, I think it's arbitrary since your arguments apply equally well to other EU items which you don't address. Gohan tried to make an issue, but it's not one. If things contradict, they contradict in other sources as well, so let's get rid of everything that contradicts anything else, by your argument. If you think the stories "suck," then that's the same arguement levelled at every other piece of the EU by various people at various times. These are not valid points to apply to Marvel without applying to things as a whole.

I think you're missing the key point here - Marvel does not contradict other items. The other items contradict Marvel. Therefore, we should ditch the stuff that doesn't fit with the established Star Wars expanded universe.

"1:Screw Marvel Continuity. Lump it all together and toss it in the closet to be forgotten."

Nope, that just doesn't seem to be happening - thankfully.

"2:Accept only what was published after 1989 whether it was by West End Games, Dark Horse Comics, Bantam, or Del Rey."

Nope, you seem to be some sort of "modern" (see the other thread) fan. There actually WAS a Star Wars expanded universe prior to the publishing of the Thrawn Trilogy. It's a shame that there's a minority of EU fans who wish to diminish these things.

"3: If West End Games, Dark Horse Comics, Bantam, or Del Rey make reference to Hoojibs, then Hoojibs exist in current continuity, but not the Marvel Comic about them. If Rik Duel is referenced, then Rik Duel the man exists, but not neccessarily the Marvel Comic he appeared in. If a reference is made to Yinchorr, then yes, it is a real planet, but that doesn't make the Marvel Comic about it valid. Just like if Luke Skywalker is mention, that doesn't make any Marvel Comic he appeared in valid."

What you want is some sort of Star Wars "multiverse" where we have two (three, etc.) completely different versions of Luke. So, someday we may have a "superhero" story about the Luke of Galaxy-Marvel teaming up with the Luke of Galaxy-Canon and Galaxy-EU to stop a Dark Lord of the Sith from controlling all realities. That's just absurd, man. Marvel is official on its own merit and rights, not because it gets referenced anywhere else. Stated another way, whether or not anything else EVER mentioned Marvel again is meaningless since the events have already officially happened.

Now, your argument can be applied to ANY item of the EU. If Corran Horn from Rogue Squadron appears in say a NJO book, then Corran Horn, the man exists, but not necessarily the events he originated in - that's weird, man.

"4: What it boils down to is this: Marvel is great for resources, for information to be used in current continuity. But storywise, it just sucks so bad. contradicts so much, it has no business being included. "

And that's an argument levelled at every single piece of the EU by people. If you were the continuity editor at Lucasfilm, we wouldn't have the EU because you'd diminish it all based on that argument.

 

BTW, the "Secrets..." Marvel reference was around p. 27. To the effect that it just doesn't count when planning new projects. It counts - it's the history. But, because it's the history of the classic era and the Alliance of Free Planets, it doesn't have much bearing on the NJO, for example. And rightfuly so. References for the sake of references are wrong. However, if for example, there's a NJO story in the COrporate Sector, I would expect some of the previous Daley characters to appear much in the same way if they visit Mandalore in the NJO I would expect some sort of Fenn, Tobbi references. We've had pretty reasonable references in NJO thus far - ones that actually have a reason to be there.

 

To use Neimodian_85's comment in another thread where people are savaging the EU...

"<Name Withheld> you are a pitiful Star Wars fan!"

That about sums this whole marginalized-Marvel attempts rather nicely. It rather saddens me that a few EU fans try and savage other EU items in much the same way Canon fans savage the EU. You may not like it, you may never read it, but at least respect that it WAS the "EU" when it was originally out and respect that the current EU is building on it. Read the Essential Chronology if you just wish to have a passing knowledge of the events as DL seems to want to. Follow the Essential Chronology to the inidividual issues to find out EXACTLY what happened in the EU at that time and place.

Simple as that.