Why was Darth Vader, Tarkin's Lacky?

Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, apprentice to the Sith Master himself, Darth Sidious.
So why did he take orders from Tarkin?

 

Darth Vader was not Tarkin's lacky. He was acting as the Emperor's representative. Basically Vader was making certain that the Death Star was operational, that the personnel were following orders, and that Moff Tarkin was following orders.

Tarkin controlled the Death Star and its personnel.

 

Because the original Star Wars was not "A New Hope" and the Star Wars universe was not developed. Rather Vader was to the Sith what Kenobi was to the Jedi, the last one. The Emperor was conceived of then as a beareaucratic totalitarian dictator/despot not a Sith Lord. Vader was the "last diciple of an extinct religion". Tarkin was an Imperial Regional Governor, reporting directly to the Emperor and Governor of the Death Star Battle Station, where Vader was staying, thus he was under Grand Moff Tarkins jurisdiction. Vader was clearly extremely powerful, deadly and evil, but lacked the official rank of Tarkin. The Emperor may have valued him more, but he was not part of the Imperial hierarchy. After all, in Leia's words, he held Vader's leash. After the dissolution of the Imperial Senate, everyone was a lacky to a man of Tarkin's rank, ecepting the Emperor himself. Accept the fact that Lucas did not image any sequels or prequels when he wrote Star Wars. For this reason A New Hope will always be flawed, it is an attempt to reconcile the film Star Wars with the universe later developed by the saga. Lucas's changes to Star Wars (which gave birth to A New Hope) only exaserbate these problems.

 

This Tarkin saving Motti from Vader topic should have it's own sticky thread. It comes up every other day.

 

I think they just have respect for each other, since we see Tarkin in ROTS, they know each other for 20+ years. They are prolly on par with power within the Empire, even if Vader has no official rank, would you say no to him?

 

Is the Search button broken or something?

 

"This Tarkin saving Motti from Vader topic should have it's own sticky thread. It comes up every other day."

Doesn't just about every other topic?

 

watch some behind the scenes, Lucas did invision sequels at least his original screen play was enourmous and he had to cut it down to a third of of what he wrote. He wrote the first third. He then figured if it did well he could make the rest but if it didn't Star Wars had a good enough ending.

 

"watch some behind the scenes, Lucas did invision sequels at least his original screen play was enourmous and he had to cut it down to a third of of what he wrote. He wrote the first third. He then figured if it did well he could make the rest but if it didn't Star Wars had a good enough ending. "

Yes, he had too much material for one film, but the star wars universe wasn't nearly fleshed out when "Star Wars" was released.

To put thinks in perspective, it wasn't until the 3rd or 4th draft of Empire Strikes Back that he decided Vader was Luke's father.

 

For this reason A New Hope will always be flawed, it is an attempt to reconcile the film Star Wars with the universe later developed by the saga. Lucas's changes to Star Wars (which gave birth to A New Hope) only exaserbate these problems.

How do you feel the changes in ANH, as you put it, exacerbate these "continuity" issues?

 

For this reason A New Hope will always be flawed, it is an attempt to reconcile the film Star Wars with the universe later developed by the saga.

Vader does answer to Tarkin. What makes you think he doesn't?

 

Probably out of respect seeing as Tarkin isn't your average imperial officer. Besides Tarkin is the governor and Vader is in his jurisdiction.

 

Tarkin is the regional governor, and he is in charge of the death star. Vader is the emperors representative. He respects Tarkin, he is not a lackey.
Tarkin requests the release of Motti, because he doesnt wish one of his admirals dead.

Saying Vader is Tarkins lackey would almost be like calling him Ozzles lackey.

Notice when Vader commands the fleet to the hoth system, Veers looks to Ozzle for the official military go ahead.

Vader is no lackey, but respects the authority of a grand moff, and rather then cause friction releases Motti. Never does Tarkin forcibly boss him around and tell him what to do.
possibly with 'terminate her immediately' but thats just some tempermental rage. Vader is a guest on Tarkins ran project, hes not gonna show up and diss a great moff such as Tarkin.

 

In the May 26, 1977 New York Times review, Vincent Canby describes Darth Vader as Tarkin's "executive assistant". It's interesting that even back then that was the perception. I haven't yet made up my mind on Darth Vader being a lacky. However since Lucas referred to Vader as a goon, I'll have to give that some weight, although his definition of a "goon" might be different that the more common connotations.

 

People must address Leia's line about Tarkin holding Vader's leash -- it the clearest statement that Vader IS Tarkin's lackey or "executive assistant"; far more compelling than the "release him" order. Particularly because Vader has no response to this accusation. This doesn't in anyway detract from Vader's power. How many generals are tougher than their master sargents or mob bosses are tougher than their thugs. This is the type of relationship between the two.

As for the tinkering messing up Star Wars, what it does it makes Star Wars have greater coherence within the saga, but less within itself. This is includes the CG that looks out of place alongside animated models, changing character traits and dialog, etc. Better to have a film that is consistant with itself and tell an awesome story, than something that is trying to tell two different stories. This is the root of the problem some people have with Tarkin being Vader's superior; it doesn't make sense in the prequel world or even in RotJ, but it makes perfect sense in Star Wars, if you remember it wasn't originally "A New Hope". I hope this finally makes this view point (the Star Wars '77 purist's) clear. I understand that it contradicts the point of view of the ANH/saga peoples view. There is room enough for all of us fans here!

 

I think that Vader actually out ranks Tarkin. Tarkin may be in charge of the death star but Vader is the Emperor's second in command. Him and Tarkin have respect for each other and give each other their space to do the job the Emperor has assigned each of them.

 

"I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash..."

Like I said, Darth Vader seems like Tarkin's b****!

Tarkin has a LOT of power for some odd reason. It was like the Emperor was angry with Vader and cast him OUT to take orders from Tarkin.
(Maybe Vader's punishment for failing to kill ALL the Jedi in ROTS!)

DarthPoppy, I KNOW why it's like that in ANH, I just want to hear why everyone thinks so, trying to make SENSE of ANH.
All these revisions, all these added scenes to the movies and Lucas NEVER felt a reason to explain this.

 

"Enough of this. Vader, release him."

"As you wish."

I love this scene. Notice how casually Vader replies. it makes both Tarkin and Vader look like very powerful characters.

 

"I think that Vader actually out ranks Tarkin."

I don't think one can be said to outrank the other. Tarkin is part of the Imperial Fleet, a high-ranking military officer. Vader is, remember, Lord Vader; in imperial terms, he's nobility. In political terms, were the empire to equate to the U.S., Tarkin would be a flag rank officer, while Vader would be akin to a cabinet member or high ranking white house official. (Darth Rumsfeld?)

 

Vader didn't have any power over Tarkin. The only time Vader would have been authorized to act against Tarkin would have been if he had tried to take the Death Star to blow up Coruscant and become the new Emperor.

Saying Vader is Tarkins lackey would almost be like calling him Ozzles lackey.

Notice when Vader commands the fleet to the hoth system, Veers looks to Ozzle for the official military go ahead.

The key difference here, though, is the destruction of the Death Star. In the Rolling Stone interview, Lucas says, "In a contest between the Death Star and Vader, the Empire sides with the Death Star" As long as Tarkin commands the Death Star, he is the one in firm control of the ultimate power in the universe.

When the Death Star is destroyed and Tarkin is killed, the Imperial command structure sees a shake-up. This is why Vader is so in command of the rest of the Empire in ESB (because, in a lot of ways, Plan A failed) and why the Emperor himself and Vader are personally overseeing the second Death Star.

 

"I think that Vader actually out ranks Tarkin."

Where would a silly idea like that come from? Vader has zero millitary rank. Everyone outranks him.

Even if you proceed under the wierd idea that he was a commander or even a general in RotS, then he still doesn't even come close to the Grand Moff rank.

Vader is nothing in the millitary. He's the Emperor's sidekick, so a little deferment is wise, but it sure isn't required.

In ESB, the situation is totally diffirent, but thats off topic.

 

Okay, back in '77 before the story was fleshed out, Vader was probably supposed to be just the muscle behind Tarkin. In light of the entire OT (and PT, for that matter), it's safe to say that the only person who had the authority to give Vader orders was Palpatine himself. As it is, there's no real problem even if Vader's role within the Empire did change in Lucas' mind. Vader never takes orders from Tarkin. True, Tarkin told him to release the guy, but Vader's response sounded like, "(snort) whatever..." I doubt that he would have answered Palpatine like that. He listened to Tarkin because he wanted to. I don't think that he ever planned to kill the guy, just scare him.

 

Vader's all about discipline, so even though he could probably just ignore Tarkin's "requests" he doesn't because that would breakdown the chain of command, besides, he probably doesn't care too much, the only thing he actually seemed to care about in ANH was obiwon, who he went after even though Tarkin wasn't crazy about Darth Vader running around looking for obiwon when he could be doing something better with his time, Darth goes anyway..

 

Vader acts the same way that Maul acts next to Nute Gunray in TPM. They are there to oversee not to manage.

 

Good point. I never thought of that comparison.