Why was the Jedi temple so poorly protected?

I posted this thread after reading a post of MASTER_DOODOO in the now locked thread on "Could Darth Maul kill the Younglings and the Jedi in the temple?"

Indeed, why did the Jedi leave it so vulnerable to an attack? One would think they learned their lesson when GG managed to "kidnap" Palpatine. Mace removed the most prestigious Jedi from the temple to request Palpatine to step down, but they didn't yet know that he was the sith-lord, so they left the temple quite open for attack... Sure Anakin could take them by surprise, but still...

 

I guess they weren't expecting anyone to walk on in and wipe them out.

The ROTS novel did a good job of fleshing out that scene. Anakin/Vader walks up to the gatemaster and kills him, and then he goes in and shuts down the Temple defense systems. After that he calls in the 501st to help him out.

I haven't read it in a while, so I might be a little off on the details.

 

That sounds just about right.

The Jedi just didn't expect a Sith of Vader's qualities to stroll in with thousands of Clonetroopers (Clonetrooper whom were supposed to be on the Jedi's side). But Anakin assassinating the gatekeeper and shutting down the defense systems sounds like a legitimate answer to me.

 

that makes more sense. I mean, the jedis can't defend against the whole galaxy, but they should be able to defend against what Anakin brought.

 

The novel also explains that the clones were created for the purpose of killing the Jedi when the time was right. Combine that element and pre-cyborg Vader and that's pretty much a definite loss for the Jedi.

 

I don't think the Jedi Temple was poorly protected. I haven't heard that the Jedi Temple had a defense system, but it makes sense. But Vader proved the system worthless as he had the access codes to shut it down. Plus, there weren't many Jedi in the Temple to begin with as the vast majority of the Order was spread across the galaxy. So I don't think the Temple was poorly defended, anytime you have Darth Vader and several thousand clone troopers from the 501st, there going cause problems.

 

In a normal situation, there are 200 hundred Jedi Knights and Masters keeping watch over things. As well as serving as back-up. At this point in time, there are only a handful of Knights and Masters in there. Mostly the Younglings and the Padawans who had no Master, because that person was killed, are in there. But when Anakin showed up, they had no clue it was a trap. Anakin killed the the gatekeeper, before he could sound the alarm. Then he entered and it was on. Mace had given warning to Shaak Ti to put the Temple on alert, which she did before he arrived at the Senate. Once the 501st entered, it was on. Jedi fell left and right to the barrage of Clonetrooper fire and Lightsaber attacks. The one thing they hadn't counted on was the betrayal from Anakin Skywalker. That's why on the soundtrack it's called "Anakin's Betrayal", once Obi-wan is attacked to when Zett pops up in front of Bail.

 

Yep..

 

The explanation of the alarm system is good but it doesn't show in the movie - and I always opt for the movie when it comes to Star Wars.

Furthermore, as I said, you would think they had more defense systems considering their failure when GG captured Palpatine.

Does anyone know how the Jedi fared at any rate?

 

two words: who knew?
The Jedi were considered heroes, helping to win the war - the battle for Coruscant has just taken place - and while Palpatine had been kidnapped from Coruscant, it wasn't the Jedi who were considered vulnerable or the target.

 

"I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi" - Mace Windu

 

Why would the Jedi Temple be a military target? The vast majority of the Jedi were fighting in the clone wars. Only Anakin, Mace and a few other important Jedi remained on Coruscant at that point. The Jedi in the Temple at that point were younglings and Padawans, and they weren't very important in the scheme of things. The CIS would have to divert a far amount of resources to destroy the Temple and it wouldn't help them win the war by doing so. I confused to what your asking about how the Jedi fared...if you mean during the Temple Raid, I think it's obvious. All Jedi in the Temple were killed by Darth Vader or clones, not a single Jedi escaped or was left alive.

 

Yes, but at that point it's not like they could have turrets, alarms, etc. installed as the time between that and Anakin's betrayal is small enough that at the most they would only have them partially installed in some locations, which would have been worthless anyway. Jedi also are fairly competant at defending themselves, so it does make sense that they might not assume they would need a defense system. They're on the capital of the Republic(which they didn't foresee betraying them) so they likely thought on the off chance they needed assistance, the Republic could quickly send that aid.

 

I meant what was the kill ratio of a Jedi to clones

Destroying the padawans and younglings is the same as destroying the Jedi as destryoing seeds - you won't let them grow, and that is pretty good tactics.

 

The plot to destroy the Jedi would never be from the CIS - otherwise that line would not have been there. They knew (or thought they knew) the CIS was trying to destroy them AND the Republic. In other words, they should be prepared on facing another menace...

 

I agree. The jedi knew they were targets after the war started. They should have been better prepared.

 

Oh, they definitely realized by that point that it was from someone in the Republic(and if you read the EU they knew he was in the Chancellor's inner circle.) However purely from a practical standpoint they couldn't get things built quick enough after that line for it to be of any use(though they of course wouldn't know this.) They should have had a far more complex defense system including force fields, alarms, turrets, etc.(though given that I also accept EU they did have a defense system, just not a very complex or thorough one.)

They also had some of the great Jedi in the Order(Cin Drallig, Shaak Ti, Agen Kolar, Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesee Tinn, and Anakin Skywalker in terms of power) at the temple, they simply didn't forsee Palpatine being able to defeat 3 Jedi Masters and that Anakin would betray Mace causing him to die or that the Republic itself would betray the Order, which is hardly surprising considering the Dark Side was clouding everything.

 

Right, the Jedi believed they were fighting a civilian war, even though they should have known better. There was no reason to put a whole lot of protection on the Temple, all that would be was a waste of good fighters. Why would the CIS want it? It probably wasn't that necessary for Anakin to off all the people in the Temple, but it was something which Sidious was using to help him turn, more than actually needing Padawans dead right away. He sort of killed two birds with one stone.

 

I agree. Anakin needed this to fuel his anger. After wiping out munchkins, who represent all things innocent, Anakin is a dark sider. The Emperor needed it to ensure a long lasting victory.

 

All of the sudden you have Yoda, Obi-Wan, Plo Koon, Stass Allie, and Ki-Adi Mundi off planet (Yoda and Obi-Wan within a short period of time). This leaves behind Mace Windu, Sesee Tiin, Shaak Ti, Kit Fisto, Anakin Skywalker, and Agen Kolar in addition to whatever other Master were at the Temple (The guy that taught swordsmanship, for one...). Count Dooku was one of two Sith. He's dead. Only one remains. It's unlikely that he could get into the temple and wipe out all of these people. Now take the Posse out of the picture and throw Anakin Skywalker on the other side. Anakin Skywalker turning traitor gives the enemy easy access to the temple that is now VERY light on Council members. The masters present that are more in tune with the force probably are reeling from the disturbance felt by the deaths of Mace and company. Suddenly one of their most powerful "Brothers" comes marching in with some clone troopers. Must be trouble, right? RIGHT, a LOT of trouble. Like, waaaaay too much trouble. With none of the high council members on planet or alive (With the possible exception of Shaak Ti), there are few to really lead the defenses. Trust that Sidious storming in on A temple with a Full Council and Anakin Skywalker (With a clear allegiance to his friends) would have yielded a FAR different result.

Carnage

 

Okay, Rossa. Chew on this one. They never expected Anakin Skywalker to walk right in with Clonetroopers to attack them. They had no other defenses because they are the defense. But when you have a traitor leading an army, without anyone knowing of it, it's kinda hard to have any type of defense.

 

I know what U are all saying. but what good are the security tapes if they have no security? looks like they just recorded the slaughter but didn't notify anyone. I guess they would have a robotic response or something. So why have security holocameras at all?

 

We meet again

But they knew Dooku had betrayed them, they feared Anakin might - "dangerous the boy is"
Mace explicitly expressed their fear that SOMEONE was out to get the JEDI - not just the Republic, and we know they didn't think that was the CIS. If it was someone in Palpatine's inner circle they should know that such a strike could very well be possible considering that the Jedi were spread so thin.

They are the defense when they are there, but when they aren't there they aren't there - hence "why was the Jedi temple so poorly protected"?

First you must take care of yourself before you can help others... Ten more masters in the temple would give Anakin serious trouble... When Mace left the temple there were none of the distinguished Jedi (we got to know) left

I agree. When the Jedi, normally constituting the defense system, are out, then some other contingency plan should be initiated. What help would the Jedi be if they were dead? (well we get the answer to that one )

But the Jedi were also fighting a war for their own survival. If they had focused more on that they would have been more capable of helping in the war also. As I said, they must first ensure their survival to help the Republic. Having ten more masters, and possibly ten more good fighting knights , would strengthen the defense of the temple enourmously, but wouldn't weaken their forces in the war by THAT much!

 

Yeah Rossa that makes not much sense, that the jedi don't have some defense. I know what U mean.

And look guys, I know it's a movie. Lets remember that. Lucas wrote this and I'm sure he has an explanation. perhaps the jedi temple is a peaceful place like a church when the doors are always open for anyone? could be.

But to have the jedi holorecordings and all that security equipment we see in rots. what's all that for? cause it looked all complicated. When Obi-Wan and Yoda go back, remember that room where Obi-Wan looks at the tapes? see around, it's like a security center there where they monitor the temple. yet there is no one around?

And then to depend on kids to keep the temple safe. Makes no sense. But I guess like someone said, you don't expect a Sith to come walking in the door. But the council knew that the sith had returned right? with Maul and all that talk. they should have been precautive.