PT Would Qui Gon have saved Anakin ?

I have often wondered if Qui Gon would have been more open minded to Anakin's dreams than Obi Wan and allowed Anakin to rescue Shmi.

This one event could have altered the entire sequence of events that caused Anakin's fall into Darkness .

It is clear that Obi was far too "by the book " and was not able to relate to Anakin's early life in any kind of effective way.

Qui Gon was far more flexible and would have been a much better role model and Father figure for a traumatized young boy and teen.

It's so interesting to me how the entire fate of the galaxy was set into motion by a single lightsaber duel.

 

A resounding yes. Qui-Gon was that father figure Anakin never had.
Hence the battle between Qui-Gon and Darth Maul was indeed the duel of Anakins fate.

 

Here's the thing, tho. Palpatine knew how he wanted to manipulate Anakin.

So even if Qui-Gon had survived the Naboo duel, Palps would have sought some other way to interfere and either drive them apart or have some other "accident" befall Qui-Gon

 

Duel of the Fates

If Qui-Gon had won; Anakin would be a true Jedi, there would be no Sith and no Darth Vader. (light side)
If Maul had won; Anakin would be either no one, or he would be a secret Sith apprentice of Maul, thus he would be a true Sith, with a possibly different Sith name. (dark side)

But surprisingly; Kenobi won; Thus Anakin become both a Jedi betrayer Sith, and a Sith betrayer Jedi later. (balance).

 

@devilinthedetails - I can always count on you to give insightful answers to the whole Anakin and Obi-Wan relationship!!! My thought has always been if Qui-Gon survived and was Anakin's Master, would he have (1) figured out who Sidious was and/or (2) been a confidante for Anakin about his fears of loss over Padme. And then Qui-Gon could've said this whole thing the Chancellor is suggesting is totally Darthy Even if Anakin didn't reveal everything about his relationship with Padme, I feel that he would've perhaps been less defensive with Qui-Gon and would've unburdened some of his deeper anxieties. Or would Anakin have seen Qui-Gon's warnings etc., as "You all are ganging up on me"!

 

Obi-Wan did a good job and his apprentice loved him like a brother. Anakin would've turned out perfectly fine if it hadn't been for that meddling Chancellor
I do think Palpatine would've had a harder time turning Anakin with Qui-Gon in the picture, though. He was less about the Jedi Code and more about following his instinct and I have a feeling that his tendency to choose the will of the Force over the dictates of the Council would've made Anakin more comfortable confiding in his master.

That's not to say that Anakin never confided in Obi-Wan. AOTC shows us that he is used to sharing private thoughts with him.
His darkest secrets are reserved for people outside the Jedi Order, though... but I can't really see him keeping Qui-Gon in the dark. Well, maybe he'd try, but one way or another, Qui-Gon would know the truth. Like Palpatine, he was incredibly intuitive and would know how to reach Anakin.

I really believe that. Qui-Gon was the greatest threat to Palpatine's plans for Anakin; a phantom menace to the Sith, if you will. They were lucky to get rid of him when they did.

 

I would say Anakin viewed Obi-Wan as a father, but Obi-Wan viewed Anakin as a younger brother. I think Qui-Gon would have been better at teaching Anakin, just due to experience and being better able to project authority. Obi-Wan did his best, and overall did a good job, but I'm not sure he was ready for a Padawan as difficult as Anakin. Whether Anakin still would have turned? Hard to say, but I think Filoni made a decent argument that he wouldn't have. Not sure if I agree, though.

 

Not in a dismissive way, but as far as I can discern the entire point of his death is that it represents a loss of direction and counsel for Anakin that would have seen his path to becoming a Jedi turn out very differently. Palpatine would have been a formidable foe anyway, and the rest of the Jedi would have continued complicating things, but having someone with clear eyes and the Chosen One as HIS apprentice surely would have made a difference somewhere...

 

Common misconception here. The Jedi represent Balance not the Light Side. At no time did Anakin need to kill all the Jedi to create balance. There is no ratio of one Sith is needed for every Jedi to create balance. 1,000,000 Jedi and 0 Sith should mean balance in the Force. 100,000,000 Jedi and 2 Sith Lords means no balance and the Force is tipped to the Dark Side.

That's because the Jedi are actively working on the side of balance in the Force and listening to the will of the Force to maintain balance. The Sith on are putting their thumbs on the scale to actively tip the balance of the Force towards the Dark Side and making themselves more powerful.

 

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2020...-fates-in-the-phantom-menace-is-so-important/

 

It's a common misconception that the Jedi represents balance, not the light side.

The Jedi are the representative of the light side, not balance.

Spoiler

This is the Jedi code from the Novels;

''No emotion'', ''No passion'', ''No chaos'', ''No death'' this is not the balance. It's not natural to have a world without any emotion, passion, chaos and death. These are the natural things in the universe. There can't be a balance without the dark side. The Jedi are the followers of the light side, they are not after balance.

They are ''slaves to the light side''.

Spoiler

If Jedi are after ''balance'', and if they are not only the representitive of the light side, then the Sith (dark) and the Jedi (light) holocrons wouldn't create a clarity of vision beyond the Jedi kind, it's because when the dark and the light combined, the knowledge is becoming far more.

Spoiler

Jedi also don't have the power or ''balance'' to open a Sith holocron, because they are only light siders, they are not controlling the balance in the Force. They don't have the power to open it.

Spoiler

I agree with this, but I think it's not complete. I think it's also about Maul and Kenobi, not only Qui-Gon/Anakin. Because Maul could've been far more as Sidious's apprentice, and Kenobi should've died in normal circumstances.

 

By the time of the Clone Wars, the Jedi Order had strayed from being true Guardians of Justice and become a de facto part of the Republic.

To me , it is very telling that Obi Wan's stance in ROTS was his allegiance to "The Republic" and Democracy and not being guided by his insights from the Force. This is why both Qui Gon and Akosha were outsiders who often disagreed with the path the Jedi were on.

To bring this back to my OP - Anakin required a more flexible training due to the emotional damage done to him after being a slave for 10 years and being separated from his mother and friends. While a decent, thoughtful person, Obi Wan basically ran Anakin thru the same process as other Padawans and did not seem to allow for the very unique set of events that was the very core of Anakin.

From what we know of Qui Gon , I suspect that he would have encouraged Anakin to use his Force abilities to see future events and save his mother, both out of basic compassion and as a means to center Anakin emotional state.

Both Qui Gon and Obi Wan had relationships that would have been frowned on by the Jedi but handled them in different ways. Obi Wan wound up lecturing Anakin on the danger of attachments while Qui Gon, after almost falling to the dark side due to a loss , remained a true servant to the Force despite personal consequence. And this is why , for myself, that Qui Gon would have been able to help Anakin become a true Guardian of Peace and Justice and not give in to his fears.

On a bit of a side note, It would have been very interesting to see a split in the Jedi Order if Qui Gon were to have defeated Maul and Obi Wan had told him about Dooku's revelation about a Sith Lord being in charge of the republic.

 

Short answer: Yes.

In Phantom Menace we see Qui-Gon develop a kinship with Anakin, take him by his side and tell him “watch, and be mindful of his surrounding” he also uses the force to manipulate the chance dice of Wattoo to make sure Anakin would be freed. Qui-Gon was exactly the type of Jedi Anakin needed. Caring, and mindful, free and able to see both sides and willing to stand up to the Council.

Yes. Obi-Wan taking Anakin was because of a promise not because he wanted too.

“Master, why do I feel like we have picked up another pathetic life form”
“Finding him was the will of the force, I have no doubt of that.”

Confer on you, the level of Jedi Knight the Council does. But agree on you taking this boy as your Padawan learner, I do not.

“Qui-Gon believed in him. ...The Chosen One the boy may be; nevertheless, grave danger I fear in his training. Master Yoda, I gave Qui-Gon my word. I will train Anakin. Without the approval of the Council if I must. Qui-Gon's defiance I sense in you. Need that, you do not. Agree with you, the council does. Your apprentice, Skywalker will be.”

These above quotes demonstrate not only the Council hesitation but also Obi Wan’s but if Qui-Gon had lived the situation would’ve changed completely. Obi-Wan trained him but his relationship was never going to be as close as Qui-Gon because Obi-Wan always had hesitation.

In ROTS even a Obi-Wan says “You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the force... not leave it in darkness! .... [shouts] I HATE YOU....You were my brother, Anakin! I loved you!”

the Council and Obi-Wan worse fear was realized Anakin had turned... there are many reasons why this happened (no Qui-Gon, Council defiance of granting the rank of a Master, not letting him do certain missions and ultimately letting him be groomed by Palpatine)

 

Qui Gon was Anakin's father figure. And if he had remained in his life and continued to mentor him, there is no doubt that Anakin would have remained on the light side. Qui Gon would have probably eventually also gotten pretty cozy with Shmi, which would have further facilitated a lot of Anakin's trust in him.

Obi-Wan was certainly a great master to Anakin, but there was too much of a brotherly conflict and bitter rivalry between them, which perpetuated a lot of Anakin's angst that would not have even existed under the mentor-ship of Qui-Gon. While Anakin and Obi-Wan would have still remained close and have a much more friendly brotherly rivalry between them. The Jedi Council would have likely accepted Anakin a lot more as well, just by his association with Qui Gon and the council's trust in Qui Gon in what he would have instilled in Anakin. Anakin would have felt a much greater sense of belonging and purpose overall. Which would have also led to him probably not being so needy for Padme's attention and affection either, which obviously turned out to be very bad for him. Whether Anakin would have pursued another relationship or no relationship at all can be up for debate, but he likely would have been better able to keep that completely separate from his duties as a Jedi anyhow, and his association with Padme would have been kept at a more professional and friendly acquaintance level.

Too many things came to a head for Anakin that wouldn't have if Qui Gon remained in his life. Add in master manipulator Palpatine knowing exactly how to exploit those conflicts within Anakin, and obviously we know how that went.

 

All I know is that I would love to see the “legends” version of the PT where Qui-Gon defeats Maul, trains Anakin, who then truly does bring balance to the Force and defeats Sidious.

 

Qui Gon was more strict than Obi Wan. Possibly with the right guidance he could have trained Anakin more differently and succesfully than Obi Wan.

 

Qui-Gon was more strict than Obi-Wan but also gave Anakin more freedom. Qui-Gon wasn't afraid of Anakin's powers. We get a good idea of what Qui-Gon's teaching style would have been for Anakin during The Phantom Menace. Qui-Gon lets Anakin enter the podrace with no hesitation. Qui-Gon brings Anakin along for the fighting on Naboo. Qui-Gone let's Anakin reach out to the full potential of his abilities.

Qui-Gon trusts Anakin and his skills. Instead of making Anakin's powers fit into the rules of the Jedi, Qui-Gon would have taught Anakin how the Jedi Order fit the use of his abilities. Qui-Gon would have let Anakin loose to use his powers but at the same time would have made Anakin responsible for the use of those powers. That's where Qui-Gon's strict discipline would have come in.

Qui-Gon's teaching probably would have been more detached and less caring than Obi-Wan's style of teaching. At the same time it would have challenged Anakin, which might have helped Anakin get over his attachment issues as he found self reliance. I actually think Obi-Wan would be a more caring instructor. Obi-Was was more of a friend and brother to Anakin.

Anakin's complains to Padme that Obi-Wan is holding him back, that Anakin in many ways had already surpassed Obi-Wan's abilities. In a lot of ways that is true. Anakin's powers, or at least the potential for his power, far exceeded Obi-Wan's powers in the Force. So Obi-Wan tried to slow down Anakin to help him focus on the basics of being a Jedi to better prepare Anakin to handle his powers later.

Qui-Gon on the other hand would not have held Anakin back in using his poewrs, but would have held Anakin accountable for his powers. I think Qui-Gon would have pushed Anakin to become a Jedi more like Mace Windu, which if you look at Darth Vader there is a hard line edge that has a lot in common with Mace Windu.

 

While I don't know for sure, I think it's possible he may have been more attuned to Anakin's issues, and less detached from them.

To me, the issue with the jedi, isn't that they suggest emotional suppression, as I don't think they do that. To me, I think they let themselves be manipulated by themselves becoming emotionally detached people, who saw things in numbers and not the people involved. On a technical level, sure, they can't ignite a war to help people, but it doesn't mean trying to help those people at all is wrong.

Anakin's issues, to me, don't come from him being taught to emotional suppression (I don't think there's any point where the jedi are teaching that), to me, I think it's simply that the jedi have detached, so that they don't really understand his problems.

Yoda, in theory, telling Anakin to learn to let go, isn't bad advice in basic concept. But I think he simply doesn't understand that Anakin will reject that and why he would.

I think Qui-Gon may have seen that.

 

I think Qui-Gon would have managed Anakin better, which is why he had to die in the story. Anakin's life is meant to be a tragedy of 'what if?'

 

I don't think so. Certainly it would have played out differently and quite possibly better in some ways, but then maybe other things wouldn't have turned out so well.

Palpatine would have had a different plan I'm sure, but I don't think he'd give up that easily and nor do I believe Qui-Gon would have been immune or alert to his manipulations; his "live in the moment" philosophy would serve him as a single person well but would probably not help against someone running a scheme decades in the making.

The ripple effects would also go far beyond just Anakin too - Qui-Gon surviving would probably have changed the path Dooku took as well and once you start down that path the butterfly effect goes nuts.

Tldr; I think saying that Qui-Gon living would have saved everyone is way too simplistic.

 

I like Qui-Gonn a lot, but I think he gets a lot of love precisely because he died so quickly. As a result, folks can project their desires on him, speculate, and play "coulda shoulda woulda" with impunity- after all, who can state definitively what Qui-Gonn "would have done"?

The funny thing is, to me, the Qui-Gonn we see in the movie epitomizes the Stoic, emotionally cool Jedi that folks love to criticize, in other contexts. He's not there to free slaves, sorry Anakin but we're leaving your Mom here in slavery... he seems pretty gruff and cold with Obi-Wan (although Obi-Wan seems fine with it, and even seems to enjoy tweaking him at times), etc. And frankly, do the movies make him look right, or the Council look right? (I realize the popular spin is that Anakin's fall is the Jedi's fault).

Again, I like Qui-Gonn.... but then again, I have no problem with Stoic Jedi. I just feel he's kinda like the absentee parent who seems "cooler" precisely because they never have to be "the bad guy", be in charge of discipline or "saying no".

 

If the Jedi Order had the same level of faith in Anakin as Qui-Gon - events may have turned out different. I don't know if the Jedi believe Anakin is the Chosen One. Why didn't Mace Windu or Yoda train him?

I think Qui-Gon would be less attuned to Anakin's issues and more attuned to Anakin's abilities and potential. That focus on his teachings and curiosity though in the field learning would take Anakin away from his issues. Later when it was time for Anakin to face his past he'd be better equipped to deal his own feelings because of what he'd learned through life experience and Jedi training.

Yoda had no idea that Anakin is talking about his secret wife who is pregnant with their child. For a typical Jedi it's good advice.

Totally agree!!!

This brings up an interesting point. What happened that Jedi Dooku became a Sith Lord and Jedi Qui-Gon Jinn goes off to find the secret for becoming a Force Ghost?

We learn on the Clone Wars that Qui-Gon had gone out on his own limb when it came to the Jedi and the large picture of the Force. It's the opposite of how Dooku broke away to become evil. But they both strayed from the Jedi status quo.

We don't know what Qui-Gon went through in his past but in The Phantom Menace we see Qui-Gone is totally open to the more mystical elements of the Force being real. What the other Jedi would consider legend or myth, Qui-Gon has no problem instantly accepting at face value for real. In the span of maybe two days Qui-Gon discovers who he thinks is the Chosen One and then learns the Sith are still active by fighting a duel with one.

The Jedi Council can't believe this. Why can't the believe it? Because they didn't see it in the Force. I think they rely on the Force too much. The Jedi listen to the Force over what their other senses are telling them. And the Jedi don't know the Sith are still around and have created blind spots in the Force that hide from the Jedi what is really going on.

Had he been around it's possible Qui-Gon could be better equipped to find Darth Sidious. Then again Qui-Gon met the Sith Lord in person without knowing. But when it comes to Anakin it's possible Qui-Gon would have been more alert to what Palpatine was up to. At the very least it might have meant Palpatine would need to be even craftier.

Maybe most importantly the father figure role that Palpatine has in Anakin's life would have been taken by Qui-Gon.

In The Phantom Menace we mostly see Qui-Gon as the only one with faith in Anakin. When everyone is telling Anakin "no" or "it's too dangerous" Qui-Gon is the one encouraging him to make it happen. At the same time we see Qui-Gon actually pushing Anakin to do more. He pushes Anakin to leave. Even in a deleted scene - Qui-Gon pushes Anakin to run faster and further to the Naboo Starship. And when the battle on Naboo gets to intense - Qui-Gon tells Anakin to sit out the fight in a starfighter.

But how would Qui-Gon have handled an Episode 2 Anakin? Or would his teachings have led to a less angsty young adult?

 

I agree with you to a point. Aside from the obvious of the story dictates that Anakin has to turn, even with Qui-Gon as his mentor, I still think Anakin would have turned, and it most likely would have happened sooner. I say this mainly because we really never see Anakin fully take responsibility for his actions. He shows flashes of it, but never to the point of being truly contrite. Obi-Wan puts up with Anakin's sass and insubordination where Qui-Gon would never have, and I think forcing Anakin to conform and take responsibility would have pushed Anakin to the dark side sooner, especially if he had more freedom to grow and expand his powers. Anakin's sense of entitlement would have grown much quicker, and under Qui-Gon would have been directly at odds with Qui-Gon's teachings. So I really don't think it would have mattered who Anakin's mentor was. I think under either one, the turn was inevitable. It was just a matter of which one would prolong the inevitable.

 

Excellent insight. And by no means is training with Qui-Gon a forgone success.

This is what it all comes down to isn't it? Would Qui-Gon's teaching style make Anakin take responsibility for his actions before it pushed Anakin to too far? I think Anakin had it in him to rise to the challenges put up by Qui-Gon and become a Jedi. We see Anakin do this as Darth Vader.

And if Anakin turned to the Dark Side sooner, how does that work? Does he washout of the Jedi Order? Can he be a secret Dark Side apprentice in plain sight? Part of Palpatine's big plan requires a surprise attack on the Jedi. And a big part of that surprise's success is Anakin turning at the exact right moment.

Maybe. It's also possible that under Qui-Gon's teachings, Anakin's sense of responsibility for his powers would have grow even faster than any entitlement or arrogance - preciely because it woudl be directly at odds with Qui-Gon. And it's Anakin's unwillingness to let go of attachment that turns him to the Dark Side, not his entitlement.

It's possible Anakin would turn much much earlier which could create a different outcome that doesn't result in the destruction of the Jedi Order in one night.