Saga Yoda Prequels Vs Original Trilogy

Did anybody watch the Original trilogy and think "wow this character needs a lightsaber and should be able to flip around like a leapfrog on crack". I just think it's foolish how George Lucas handled Yoda's characterization in the prequel trilogy. Yoda says in Empire "Wars not make one great" and says "For my ally is the Force and a powerful ally It is". Yoda is shown to be super powerful like when he lifts Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp and is shown to be superwise. It just seems so wrong to give him a lightsaber when he shows in the Original trilogy that he has no need of it. Does anyone agree with this?

 

I do yes. It seems an utter disconnect because there is no transition between the incongruous stances shown.

 

No.

 

I think that the Yoda we see in ESB and ROTJ has learnt from the mistakes he made in the PT. He went blindly to war, used violence to solve his problems, etc...

So by the time of ESB he's realised his mistakes. Also, he's been isolated for 19 years with no one to talk to, so that's plenty of time to train his force powers, so that he no longer needs a weapon.

 

'violence to solve his problems'
are you refering to the Clone Wars as 'his problems' ?

 

I agree with this. There is never any time in the OT that Yoda is in a position to need or use a lightsaber, that's not the story or function of the OT character. He also says: "wars not make one great," but OT Yoda doesn't say or give the impression (to me) that he thinks a lightsaber would never be needed or useful.

 

Nor does he indicate the opposite, jc.

 

This seems like a Saga topic.

 

True, and he does give Luke the injunction that he will not need his weapons in the cave--indicating some aversion to weapons. He also says to Luke in ESB: "On this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight with the force as his ally will conquer Vader and his Emperor." Yoda doesn't out right tell Luke "you need to fight and kill them," but to me this sounds as if that is implied. I don't hear in those words that "conquer" means: "Luke, you must be before Vader and the Emperor and throw down your lightsaber and almost be killed by the Emperor so Vader will save you, destroy the Emperor, and die in turn." I credit casting aside the lightsaber more to Luke.

 

I'm OK with the prequels but just because Obi-Wan made the off hand statement that he fought in the clone wars with Luke's father, doesn't imply that Yoda was some General who fought in 1000 battles. Also in the fight between Palpatine and Yoda, Yoda draws his lightsaber first, not the sith lord. The Original trilogy showed us it was wrong to draw first because it was an act of agression. Luke drew first in his fight against Vader in the Empire Strikes Back because he was hasty and reckless and he went against every thing Yoda and Obi-Wan taught him. Luke drew first in Return of the Jedi and this is what Palpatine wanted because Luke gave into his anger. So it bothers me that Lucas not only gave Yoda a lightsaber but he had Yoda handle it in a way completely unfitting of a Jedi Master with 800 years of wisdom.

 

I don't have a problem with Yoda (or Palpatine) using a lightsaber in the PT, but I can appreciate how others do. It's interesting to hear others opinions on the matter.

 

Sidious had killed off the entire Jedi Order at this point. I think that counts as 'an act of aggression'.

 

When Luke did it, it was a personal grudge against the dude who had abducted/tortured his friends, and he abandoned his training uncompleted to do it. Yoda went in because the alternative was letting Palpatine rule the entire galaxy unchallenged... quite apart from all those dead Jedi on his account, and Yoda having the best part of a millennium's worth of experience by this point is not the same thing at all as Luke's few months in a swamp lifting rocks.

 

"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack". Yoda wouldn't have run into face Palpatine with his lightsaber drawn looking for a fight that's not the Jedi way and Yoda beats this lesson into Luke.

 

it's not like at that point Sidious had duped the galaxy into a war killing thousands or millions of people.

 

Yoda was acting in defense though... defense of the galaxy. Luke was trying to get revenge for what had been done to his friends. It's not the same thing.

 

That's the point. It shows what he's learned

Not only is he now the wise sage-like figure he is, but there's a sense of satisfaction seeing that even the wisest can learn from their mistakes. It makes me like Yoda as a character a lot more

If he was still exactly like he was in the OT while in the PT, he'd be a rather static, uninteresting character

 

no i disagree. the pt shows yoda as a warrior because that's where he learns "wars not make one great". the pt is about what the jedi did wrong. yoda in the ot has learned from this. that's why he tells luke these things.

 

it's not wrong to draw first at all. it's wrong to do these things in anger. i think gl knows his own mythology.

 

It's not a problem at all actually. In AOTC, it is shown that Yoda needs to rely on his crutch after the battle with Dooku. To overcome the limitations of old age and small size, Yoda draws his power from the force. When he doesn't use the force, he is subject to the physical limits of his age.

 

I think it's fine the way it is. People that expected PT Yoda to be the exact same as CT Yoda completely miss his character arc and the lessons he learns, IMO. He's kind of a microcosm of the type of philosophical shift the entire Order needed after the Clone Wars, really.

 

op needs to watch the clone wars yoda arc.

 

Luke doesn't need his weapons because he's going into the cave to face himself. Yoda knows this because he himself went into the dark side cave and saw future events without relying on his weapon. Yoda had mastered his fears, whereas Luke had not. It was a lesson in fear, anger and hate. Not that weapons are bad. The point of the ROTJ duel is that Luke is trying to defend himself, while avoiding turning to the dark side, but he fails at it. He ultimately realizes that he will kill his father if he keeps going and that he will turn if he does, so he stops fighting and surrenders in an effort to save himself.

The point in Yoda using a Lightsaber is that he is a Jedi, just like everyone else. When he says that wars do not make one great, he isn't saying that a Jedi shouldn't use a Lightsaber. He's saying that as a Jedi, they are not great warriors. That is vanity and ego talking. A Jedi is more than a warrior. Something Luke has to learn.

 

It's kind of dumb to say George Lucas knows his own mythology and thus we should only look to him for how things should be in Star Wars. Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand also contributed much to the Universe and humanized the characters George Lucas created in Episode IV. Also the screenplay for Empire Strikes Back was written by Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan, the screenplay for Return of the Jedi was written by Lawrence Kasdan and George lucas. So to say that George Lucas is the sole creator of the Mythology of these stories is just false.

 

Indeed so but unfortunately many here act like only Lucas matters and everyone else must heed or else is wrong. So overdone.