CT "You can not hide forever, Luke" | Does Luke become invisible by using the force?

When Luke is brought before the Emperor (by Vader) at ROTJ, the Emperor provokes Luke to lure him to the dark side.Because of Palphatine's poisonous words, Luke gives in to his anger, and with a sudden rage, he (Luke) grabs his lightsaber in an attempt to strike at Palphatine, Vader interferes Luke's try and their duel begins.Amidst the duel, Luke force-leaps to the platform behind, and while he's on the platform, he tries to come to terms with Vader who denies the contradictions within himself.With the effect of his rage; Vader hurls his lightsaber to Luke, it (the lightsaber) hits one of the bars that's holding the platform, and the platform crumbles.With the crumbling ground above him, Luke also falls to the floor.....At the next scene; we see Vader searching for Luke at the (Emperor's) throne room.At the beginning of the scene; he says "You can not hide forever, Luke" and Luke replies "I will not fight you".Right after that, Vader (just like Palphatine) begins to say provocative things to irritate Luke to take him out of his hiding-shelter.And finally, the things those Vader bids make Luke expose himself.With a great anger, Luke yells, gets out of his hiding place (we see that Luke'd hidden-behind-the-stairs along this time) and attacks Vader.

At that scene; Mr. Lucas uses a (scene) method and I like it a lot! While Vader is bidding annoying things to make Luke nerveous, the-camera-shows-him (Luke) 3 times at the place he hides.We-see-a-dark background behind Luke and a shadow covers half of Luke's face which "kind of" supports the dark background of the place he hides.And when he appears (to attack Vader), we see the stairs backwards (which indicates where Luke'd hidden) as-if-the-darkness that was backing the place had never existed; which appears like an eye-trick, and which-adds-a-more significent appearance to the very scene (and the camera shows the stairs two times right after Luke appears).....At the second Indy movie (The Temple of Doom) ; Steven Spielberg also applies this "delicate" method.(At the movie; ) Right after the part at which Indy and Willie dispute at the palace (in Willie's room), they both get into their rooms and wait for each other to come.While Indy's walking and muttering in his room, he gets attacked by a Thuggee conspirator who had camouflaged himself among the character-drawings at the wall.I always like the-scene-so-much whenever I watch the movie; for Mr. Spielberg uses the method I've mentioned in the best way at the part.The conspirator silently gets out of the wall-drawings in an attempt to choke Indy, and until he reveals himself; the-camera-clearly-shows the wall-picture which the conspirator'd hidden into.The 1st time the-camera-shows-the picture "clearly" is the scene which Indy says (to himself) "I'm a coceited ape?", and-at-that-scene; we see two wall-drawings leftwards and rightwards of Indy.We see four man standing at-the-picture-rightwards and open-tones of various colours preponderate the drawing.At-the-picture-leftwards is the one where the conspirator hides.Different from the other picture; dark tones predominate this one, there-are-eight-men appearing at the drawing and the Thuggee-conspirator is the "3rd man" standing from left.The-second-time-the camera shows the picture is the scene which Indy murmurs "I can't believe it", but this time we-see-seven-men, for the camera doesn't show the man on the far left; only one man appear leftwards of the conspirator.

The third (and the last) time the very picture appears clearly is the scene which Indy mutters "She's not coming.I can't believe I'm not going" and this scene is also the one at which the conspirator gets out of the picture.The-camera-"again"-shows seven men (in the drawing), the Thuggee slowly approaches to Indy and begins to choke him with his rope.The-thing-that-has to be paid attention at-this-sample-is; until the conspirator reveals himself, we see dark colour tones predominate the picture, but after he steps out of the drawing, the colour tones (of the picture) suddenly-turn-to-light colour tones as if the dark toned picture'd never existed.And-after-that-point, the very picture appears with light tones, and we can see it (the picture now with light colours) "clearly" three-times-at-that part.The 1st one is; right after the conspirator winds his string about Indy's throat, the camera shows both Indy and the conspirator from afar (at-the-43rd-second of the 48th minute; to-be-more-specific) and Mr. Spielberg "slowly" moves the camera from rightwards to leftwards.At the scene; we may clearly see the picture (with open colour tones) backwards of both Indy and the Thuggee while they're struggling with each other.....The 2nd scene is; after Shorty throws his whip to Indy, he (Indy) begins to choke the conspirator with his whip, the-camera-focuses-to Indy's face while he's looking at the Thuggee with anger, and rrrrright-after-that-scene, the camera shows both Indy and the Thuggee (and Shorty standing rightwards), the Thuggee hits Indy with his elbow ( "still" the same scene; which appears at the 36th-second-of-the 49th minute), and leftwards of Shorty (who stares both Indy and the conspirator awestruck) we-see-the-very picture clearly with open tones and we could see-the-lack-at the place where the Thuggee was standing.....The 3rd scene appears right after Indy winds his whip to the escaping Thuggee's throat, the-camera-shows-the Thuggee from backwards, he (the conspirator) holds Indy's whip and hurls it aloft, and-at-that-scene (41th-second-of-the 49th minute), the very picture appears between Indy and Shorty.....

At the '87-released movie "Masters of the Universe" ; the movie's director Gary Goddard also uses the same-mold-of-that method.At-the-scene-when-Skeletor (Frank Langella) approaches to the big computer-screen in an attempt to locate the wheresoever of the "Cosmic Key" (at the Castle Greyskull) ; the screen travels through the universe, locates the sun-system, locates earth and finally; it finds the building where the teenagers (Kevin and Julie) use the Cosmic Key (well; the computer is too specific, just like me ).The screen visualises the images and the building (where the Cosmic Key is kept) so clear, so smooth, and right after that part, Evil-Lyn shows Skeletor his mercenaries for the task of finding the (Cosmic) Key.She (Evil-Lyn) introduces Blade, Saurad, The Beastman and Karg to Skeletor (and to the audiences as well ).And rrrrright-after-Karg-appears; the camera shows Skeletor, and at the rear of Skeletor, we-see-the-big screen, but this time; different from the previous scene, the very screen appears "wavy" instead of appearing smooth, as if it'd never appeared clear.At-the-next-scene, Skeletor approaches to his mercenaries and says "Now, you are to go through to this world to where they are hiding.Find the key.Do as you wish with the others but bring He-Man back alive" (The reply "Do as you wish with the others but bring He-Man back alive" increases the importance of He-Man and also, that very phrase was the thing that rrrreallllyyyy conned me when I was a child, for He-Man was standing at the center of the super-heroes of my childhood ).After Skeletor bids their tasks to his 4 mercenaries, the-camera-"shortly"-shows the wavy screen while Evil-Lyn is standing in front of it.Then the-camera-again-turns to Skeletor, he says (to his mercenaries) "You do understand?" , they reply "Yes,Skeletor", he (Skeletor) says "Good" and approaches to Evil-Lyn and the screen appears for the 3rd and last time while Skeletor is bidding (to Evil-Lyn) "Open the door.Do not fail me".....

Oh, by the way; the appearance of Skeletor's 4 mercenaries reminds me of the 4-issued "Icons of Evil" comic-series which (in each comic) tells the story of the foremost 4 villains (Beastman, Mer-Man, Trapjaw and Tri-Klops) of the world of MTOU which were published by Image Comics and Crossgen Comics (Beastman was published by Image C. and Mer-Man, Trapjaw and Tri-Klops were published by Crossgen C.).The comics dedepend on the 2002-made MTOU Cartoon which tells the new adventures of He-Man.In fact; at the '83-made classic (MTOU) cartoon show, the villains were appearing as characters those had popped up from a child's bedtime story, there weren't neither any back-story nor depth in the very characters, I mean they weren't appearing as massive characters like Darth Vader or the Emperor, and the ("Icons of Evil") comic-series are deepening the story of the dreadful villains.I haven't started to read the comics yet, but I shall read the 4-issued series soon enough, for I wonder the stories of the characters a lot .I'd watched the first episodes of the 2002-made cartoon-show, it was a great remake of the classic cartoons which was also giving a convincing back-story for the character of Skeletor.At the '83-made cartoon, Skeletor was appearing only as a skull-faced character, and the children of the era (including me) couldn't get a chance to learn his true story; how he'd gotten that horrible appearance, but the lateast cartoons were telling "who" he truly is, and what'd given his face its skull-shaped form.....

Well; I hope my explanations about the (scene) method applied by Mr. Lucas, and the samples related with that very method (from the movies "The Temple of Doom" and "Masters of the Universe") hadn't come confusing, I tried to write them as understadable as they could be, and giving specific-indications-about-my observations shall ease your effort for finding-the-key-elements which make those (scene) methods appear effective.....Now; let's get back to the very scene (the throne-room scene) where we'd left off .At the scene; (as I'd told above) Luke conceals himself from Vader behind the stairs, and this leaves us with two very options: 1) To hide from Vader, Luke squats down behind the stairs, but it's "impossible" to take shelter at a place in the throne room without being unnoticed, so I cancel this option. 2) By using the force, Luke becomes invisible and conceals himself from Vader.This is the "stronger" option; for if-you-behold-the scene, while Vader is bidding provocative things to Luke, he also searches for the place as-if-he-was searching for someone who'd become invisible (instead of looking for someone who'd only hidden in a corner), for after Luke says (to Vader) "I will not fight you", he (Vader) continues his search to-seek-out-the source of his (Luke's) voice in-a-manner-of saying "I hear your voice, you're somewhere "close" around here, sooner or later I'll find you and provoke you for a duel".....








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Invisible?

Nah. He's just hiding under the staircase and likely masking his presence from Vader's ability to sense his location through the Force

Handy that he's wearing all black in a very shadowed area

 

It is a possibility. Luke was tempted by the Emperor and he nibbled at it when he attacked Vader the first time. Then he calmed down and tried to bring Darth Vader to the lightside, but that failed in his first attempt. When he fell down there had to be some of the darkside lingering in him, which allowed him to mask his exact location to Vader. As Yoda warned, careful of the darkside. In the PT, we get to see some more of the darksides power and it's ability to mask force users, so that theory is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

As a matter of fact the throne room set was a dead end on both levels. Luke was hiding near the bottom extension of the left "tulip" tower. Vader being unable to find him was kind of a stretch, IMHO, given the obvious limitations of space on this set.

So indeed, the only feasible rationalization is that Luke managed to become somewhat invisible for Vader.

 

Right, that was "exactly" what I was mentioning at the thread above .At the last pharagraph (of my thread) ; I've pointed out the impossibility of taking shelter at a place which doesn't give sufficient space for hiding, which coerces Luke to apply the one and only option: to use his force-power that ables him to cloak his visible form from Vader.

 

It's not that Vader couldn't find him, just that Vader didn't know exactly where he was after that rafter thing came down.

Clearly Vader couldn't detect his exact position immediately, quite possibly because Luke was masking his presence. Vader could have found him fairly easily, of course, since there weren't all that many hiding spots in the room, but making taunts was a better tactical choice than poking his head around every corner.

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This. He's wearing all black in a dark area. He didn't become invisible so much as he blended in.

 

Feel free to examine where Luke could have come from (from below the stairs) and compare to the first images. If he wasn't invisible to the shooting camera, then I don't know: http://starwarsscreencaps.com/star-wars-episode-vi-return-of-the-jedi-1983/74/

 

You do know that they didn't posses that kind of technology in 1982, correct? Mark Hamill had to be there, he couldn't just simply disappear from the scene. In the context of the scene, Luke is just hidden, wearing dark clothes, thus making it difficult for him to be seen.

 

Dinos4Ever

I know Mark Hamill had to be there and Lucas and Marquand were probably taking artistic liberties with the tiny set.

Yet, I'm confident ANH and ESB production designer John Barry might have come up with a better set design, had he been still alive, then.

 

John Barry wasn't the production designer of ESB. Norman Reynolds was the prod. designer in both Empire and Jedi.
Your overconfidence is your weakness, my friend

 

Your faith in Norman Reynolds is yours.

You are correct, I was under the impression that John Barry contributed a lot to the set design in ESB before his sudden death. One thing I can never really get over it is the dramatic decrease in set design quality (IMHO) when I compare ROJ to ESB and ANH.

 

Nope, John Barry was hired fairly late, while they were shooting (I believe he was busy doing something else), as a second unit director, and only worked for a couple of weeks before he died.
I don't find to be a dramatic decrease in set design quality at all between Empire and Jedi,but in any case, the same man was in charge in both cases.

 

Back on topic, as a kid I always thought the space beneath the throne room was much larger than it really was. Often sets are shot and lighted in ways that make them look bigger, as in this case, and it's only when you look at behind-the-scenes pictures that you realize that the set is rather small. Another problem of over-analyzing the movies lol.
Anyway, it's also possible that Vader wasn't actively searching for Luke during the scene (he's barely moving at all!) because he was afraid Luke would jump on him suddenly (they way Vader was hiding from Luke in Empire in a tiny passageway and appeared out of nowhere on top of him).
It's also possible (probably, I'd say) that Vader is more interested in tempting Luke rather than actually fighting.

 

oierem

You think that Luke wasn't honest when he told Vader "I will not fight you father?"

Maybe Luke learned from Yoda how to make himself "invisible" to a dark Force user.

 

What does that have to do with it? Luke didn't want to fight Vader, as seen in the previous scene, and Vader wants to provoke him into fighting. Obviously, if Vader attacked Luke, he would defend himself.

 

oierem wrote

Anyway, it's also possible that Vader wasn't actively searching for Luke during the scene (he's barely moving at all!) because he was afraid Luke would jump on him suddenly (they way Vader was hiding from Luke in Empire in a tiny passageway and appeared out of nowhere on top of him).

Hence my question in post # 15. So you think Vader didn't trust Luke's "I won't fight you?"

 

Yes, because he still needs to goad him into fighting. Remember, their's a piece of the film that's cut out where Vader finds Luke's saber and picks it up. I think it was even implied that Luke rolled it out to him. It is also equally possible that Luke wasn't stationary, but was moving when Vader's back was turned.

 

I believe Luke is using the Force ... somehow, at least in that scene to mask his presence from Vader, visually and through the Force itself. Otherwise Vader would just, y'know, look to the left and, hey, he's there!

 

noooooooooooo!

 

darth-sinister wrote

Remember, their's a piece of the film that's cut out where Vader finds Luke's saber and picks it up.

Really, that's the first time I'm hearing about this. Does it also explain how the saber makes it back to Luke, once he yells "nooo"?

 

If I recall correctly, Luke throws the lightsaber to Vader, who picks it up. Then he gets it back using the Force. In the last shot of Vader (before Luke yells "No") you can clearly see Luke's lightsaber in Vader's hand.

Anyway, this whole conversation could've been played out with Vader and Luke face to face. They just staged it that way to make it more dramatic and cinematic. What's wrong with that?

 

Nothing. I'm alright, I'm just curious to see footage or evidence of this scene.

 

The shot where Vader finds the saber may or may not have been shot, but he is holding it.



At 3:09, you can see Vader holding Luke's saber in his left hand.

 

darth-sinister

Impressive. Most impressive! Good catch, I wasn't aware of this particular detail (scenery too dark), thanks for sharing it.

I think I can see why it was cut. Luke throwing his lightsaber in front of the Emperor would have looked repetitive and would have hardly had the impact it had as an unexpected gesture.

Yet it reveals a remarkable consistence in Luke's behavior and that Vader only managed to provoke a short emotional outburst before Luke got a hold of himself again, discarding his lightsaber for a second time.