Lit Zayne Carrick, Orgus Din, Tyria Sarkin, and Tekli–weak, or just late-bloomers?

So, the big theme of the KOTOR comic was Zayne Carrick's insufficiency in the Force. He couldn't do anything right; whatever he tried to do, usually the opposite happened. Orgus Din, as a Padawan, had a very weak connection to the Force. Tekli was considered to be very weak in the Force by Anakin Solo. Tyria Sarkin said that Luke Skywalker had once told her that she would never become a Jedi Knight because her Force abilities were too weak.

Now, let's look at their achievements.

Zayne Carrick managed to lie his way past Haazen, a professional liar, and cut off the arm with the Gauntlet of Kressh on–and when the Gauntlet of Kressh was on no one could touch you unless you wanted them to. How did Zayne hide deception on this level? Force skills? Or was he just a good liar? He created a large Force hurricane that threw many dishes and silverware at Lucien Draay. He also managed to manipulate lightsabers, so that the double-bladed weapon went to Demagol rather than the single bladed one.

Orgus Din became a Jedi Council Member. Not much is known about his abilities, because every time he appears he is defeated–by Angral twice, and by Bengel Morr. However, he trained three apprentices to Knighthood, and was well-respected by the other Jedi Council members.

Tekli went on to become a Jedi Knight, her healing skills extremely important on the mission to Myrkr. She was a valuable assistant to the Jedi Master Cilghal. She was later known to be one of the most important healers in the Jedi Order.

Tyria Sarkin's skills developed later in her life, enough to the point where she was able to become a skilled Jedi Knight who took on multiple Mandalorian invaders at once. She also had two children, Jesmin Tainer and Doran Sarkin-Tainer, both who became talented Jedi Knights; their Force-sensitivity would have been transmitted via their mother.

So, what do you think about the allegedly "weak" Jedi, the ones who the more powerful Jedi consider unable to get to "their level", and yet these Jedi usually accomplish as much as their supposedly more powerful peers?

 

If I'm remembering correctly, Obi-Wan almost didn't get taken up as a Jedi apprentice either. I don't know if this had anything to do with his strength in the Force though.

I believe our views of Jedi in the EU are skewed because we're used to reading from POV characters that are extremely strong in the Force like Luke Skywalker, Mara Jade, and the like. For Tyria and Tekli, we only have Luke's word that they're weak in the Force. For all we know, they could have been average Jedi back in the days of the Old Republic. And who knows, there were probably many techniques that were lost from pre-Imperial days that could have helped Jedi develop their Force powers as it were.

Zayne, on the other hand, I have no idea. He's just very very very lucky.

 

Zayne's what I would define as a late bloomer. It never really seemed like he didn't have the potential, just that he was very ackward and hadn't found his own connection with the Force and using it.

When I think of someone extremely weak in the Force I think of Scout.

 

Simplest answer is there's more to being a Jedi than just strength in the Force.

 

Zayne gets explained. He´s kind of weak to begin with, and because his master didn´t bother to train him properly, the Force reacts strangely with him. It makes him lucky and unlucky at the same time. But as he says in War, he knows he´s going to have bad luck and thus can get ready for it.

 

So, he needs time to prepare....

Therefore Zayne is..... Batman !?

 

Zayne is described as having a 'learning disability' which takes the form of events going his way or against it, depending on the Force's mood. Having a neglectful master didn't help any, and he only started to bloom when he found his second master (Gryph) and people who actually believed in him. But the odds still tend to act weirdly where he's concerned.

 

I think its complicated by the fact that Force potential is a misnomer to me. If the only difference is in your mind, any Force user is potentially omnipotent if trained properly.

 

I forgot Scout. Poor kid never had a chance–but she seems to have Zayne-level luck, surviving Order 66 and whatnot.

 

We see Jorj Car'das is able to use the Force after some training with the Aing-Tii, despite the handicap of lacking Force sensitivity.

Luceno pretty much wrote an explanation for how someone with a low midi-chlorian count can still be powerful in the Force: their midi-chlorians are better able to channel the Force than the ordinary person's midi-chlorians. And this seems to be something which training and use increases for anyone.

 

Darth Plagueis also says that people with high counts aren't always force-sensitive.

I think Force Potential says whether or not you're Force Sensitive and how difficult it might be.

However, there's no upper limit to its power and 99% of that is mindset.

 

Yeah. Pretty much this.

 

In short, I kid you not, that technically means that Star Wars force users rely on the leveling system.

 

You mean Star Wars is one giant MMO? So SWTOR's gameplay is technically really, really accurate.

 

There may be something to that, actually, in the broadest terms. Force users grow confident and stronger the more they use the Force as well as practice it.

Tyria Sarkin's doubt and emotional baggage is what crippled her.

It also, really, explains why Luke Skywalker is able to defeat Vader on the Second Death Star. Not because he's got the super-midiclorianestness but because his trust in the Force is so great that it dwarfs Vader's own.

 

I don't know about that; I think, in that moment, he was drawing on his rage, not his natural Force ability. Note that he's just wailing away with his lightsaber and never once uses the Force when he's beating the stuffing out of Vader. If he had, it might've been Starkiller-levels of hurling stuff around into Vader.

 

In the case of Luke beating Vader, he was using the 'dark side.' re: Starkiller, even if Starkiller is more powerful than Vader or even Luke, I really just don't care who is more powerful than who or who could beat who in a fight, that's Dragonball Z stuff, I care about story. And the story is that the answer all along was love, not violence. So hand wringing about Starkiller beating Vader, or being more powerful than Luke, it's ultimately as important as if Mace was more powerful than Sidious or legitimately beat him. Even if he was or if he did, it doesn't matter because that wasn't what was important.

 

I don't want Starkiller to be better than Vader or Luke.

But that's the fanboy in me.

I also note that Batman is the 2nd best Martial Artist in the DCU (Lady Shiva being the 1st) but can still beat her and get beaten by her.

 

Well, the Dantooine council said as much when they were chewing out the Exile. Granted, that was partially Obsidian winking at the audience, but the gameplay does fit the "mindset" model discussed earlier.

 

It would fit a LOT, wouldn't it?

Why Ahsoka and Luke are so damn powerful for instance (before we knew the latter had the holy bloodline).

 

I took that Jedi Council a whole lot more seriously than the one in TOR and FOTJ.

 

It's kind of ironic Master Vrook still comes off as more sensible than 99% of the characters even if he's supposed to be needlessly antagonistic.

 

Vrook is a jerk but he makes a whole blazing lot of sense.

 

I don't think that Luke was considered that powerful before Episode I. Kyp Durron was ostensibly more powerful than Luke. Luke was the only Jedi Master, and he was also the only Jedi that wasn't over the hill and thus able to take on Vader and Palpatine. It was only after twenty years of EU that we built up about 100 survivors of the purge, and the early survivors such as Brand and Vima Da-Boda weren't going to be taking down Vader or Palpatine -- very likely they were deliberately created with that limit in mind.

 

It´s said in ROTJ. And really, early EU had Force users more powerful than Luke under every stone. Makes one wonder why Yoda and Obi Wan bothered when they could have randomly picked another somewhere else, but for that matter Zahn for instance sai they had more than enough power but using it was DS, so they waited for Luke because he had such potential and... the same handicap according to him, so no idea how he was supposed to deal with Vader and Palpatine. But I think the best evidence to Luke´s powerlevel is the Emperor, he wanted to replace Vader by someone more powerful, yet he had to wait for Luke, so Vader´s level was still in the higher limits, and didn´t find anybody who could surpass him in 20 years.

I doubt Kyp is above Mace Windu at best, and anyway he was created by KJA, reason enough to dismiss all said about him in his books. Daala was also supposed to be a military genius after all.

I don´t think Ashoka is that powerful, again, Windu level again at best after/if she lives long enough and keeps training. Probably being to generous, as Windu and Yoda and Palpy seem to be really above everybody else in Ep III - meaning Anakin´s chances of stopping Palpatine were about 0.