Challenge Fifty Titles in Search of a Story | We have a winner! Congrats to divapilot :)

It's certainly been DRL for me. I really want to answer the questions, I just haven't had the chance! (I haven't finished the previous week's either. ) Maybe another week would help!

 

Yeah, my week has been crazy, and what little down time I have had (and will have this week) I've wanted to work on fics. I might be able to think up of some replies, but my brain is in creative-mode, not analytical-mode.

 

DRL is kicking my butt. And when I have time...my creative juices are flowing so I'm afraid to stop them But I really like this topic, and I want to reply, and I'm excited to read people's postings....so one more week?

 

I have made the decision to officially drop out of the challenge. I am preparing for the Pokémon TCG National Championships on July 1-3, plus I'm in the middle of a job search right now, so I have almost no time to write until July at the earliest and what little time I do have to write needs to be spent keeping up with my RPG. So I simply cannot spare the time to figure out what to do with my story this month.

Cue fanon post punishment. (But not until later this summer, as the constraints on my time that I just mentioned apply to that also.)

 

oh gosh, I think I do an awful lot of introspection. Lots of navel gazing here. It's interesting that you bring this up because I really haven't thought much about it. I think introspection shows the growth of the character well. In each work, your character should undergo some kind of change or come to some new understanding. Introspection sort of gives me a chance to show what he/she was like before and then how the events of the story changed him/her.

By "introspection" I'm assuming you're referring to internal dialogues, or text that highlights the character's internal thoughts and feelings. Sometimes, if it's a quick shift, I might insert it between dialogue. If it's a significant emotional moment for the character, it tends to get its own paragraph.

For example, if I want to show how Han feels about getting dressed for Jaina's wedding, I might write something like this:
"These stupid collars were designed to strangle people," Han groused. He hated formal wear, yet this was his daughter's wedding and he wouldn't make a scene. Honestly, he would do whatever she asked him to. Of course, he could ask Leia to help, but then that would be admitting he didn't know how the blasted thing was supposed to snap shut. He shook his head and put his hand up to the collar again. "All right, I'll get it this time."


But if I wanted a more emotional scene, I might run a whole paragraph where he sits at a table at the reception, watches her dance with her new husband, and remembers the times when he was the man in her life.

When I write introspection it tends to be in a piece that is from a particular character's POV, so it would only be that character. It would get confusing if you (the reader) could be inside two different character's minds. And I use introspection for emotional scenes, not descriptive ones, so it wouldn't really get too "tell-y vs show-y." I guess I try not to make the introspection more important than the plot in such a case. Of course, the last thing I wrote was almost 100% introspection with almost no dialogue and very little action.

I guess if it's a short piece then I can run more freely with introspection, but in a longer work then I let the character's actions and dialogue move the piece. It depends on the mood of the piece, too. A romantic piece, for example, might have more internal dialogue than a description of a fight scene. Not that there isn't introspection in a fight scene, it's just that you don't have a whole lot of time to wax nostalgic while swinging your lightsaber at the bad guy.

 

Chapter 1 of If This Is a Man is up. New total 2 posts/4998 words.

 

Week 24: Introspection

When do you choose to go for introspection?
Well...mostly because I feel like it lets me be the most creative. But its way easier for me to get the character's motivation and reason for acting a certain way across to the reader via introspection than dialogue. I'll definitely mix dialogue with actions: for example, if someone is thinking nervous thoughts, I'll throw in there about them fiddling with something, etc. I guess too, I'm a pretty quiet person IRL, so I do a lot of thinking and not as much talking (though when I do finally start, heaven help you!) But I suppose that just makes more sense to me, because so much of a person's decision making and reasons for behaviors are motivated by their thoughts.

How do you write introspection? Do you go for a monologue that breaks the fourth wall, a soliloquy where a character speaks to him/herself, a couple of paragraphs of stream-of consciousness? Do you insert bits of introspection in the middle of a dialogue scene or an action scene, or do you reserve a large chunk of text just for this? What strategies/markers do you use to insert a piece of introspection in your story?

I do a bit of each of those, except for the soliloquy/fourth-wall bits. I've also (if I want to focus heavily on introspection or the character's thoughts that are going to motivate an action) I'll write a section or chapter in 2nd or 1st person, so that I can be 100% part of their brain. Otherwise, I'll put little bits here and there, so the reader understands the thoughts behind their actions as we go along, or I'll insert a big chunk. I usually transition to that by the character taking a pause or walking away or staring off into the distance--things we all do when we're thinking. I feel like that's the most natural way for me to write it.

What do you use introspection for? Is it mostly to develop a character’s thoughts and motivations, or do you also find introspection useful to summarise/analyse what happened so far in the story from a particular character’s perspective? How does introspection fit in your overall character/plot development strategy?

Sometimes I'll use introspection as a type of summary device. Like "Leia sat back in her seat, the events of the last few days rolling through her mind." But I dislike using that heavily, unless it's driven less by a summation of events and more like a chronology of feelings. Instead of Leia thinking "man, x happened, then y happened, then z happened. It's been a crazy day!" I prefer to do something like "Leia thought about the way her heart had dropped in her chest when X happened, and the helplessness. Y had helped her to pull herself from her astonishment and into action, and as she did Z, she had been enveloped by a strange sense of calm from the satisfaction of doing something."

Mainly though, I use it to show why a character is doing something. Is Han stomping off to the Falcon? You can bet as he stomps I'm going to do a bit of introspection into why he's choosing to huff away from Jacen's idiotic animal blathering rather than spend time with his son.

Is there such a thing as too much or too little introspection? How do you avoid telling (rather than showing) when writing introspection? If you avoid introspection, how do you expose your characters’ thoughts? Do you use introspection for multiple characters? For only one? What positives and negatives do you see to either approach?

Well...I guess I do a lot of telling? But I try to do it in a way that it flows naturally with the story and follows similar patterns to the way we all think. When the vase falls off the counter, your mind will invariably go to the memories attached to that vase, and then back to the present and the sense of loss (for example). I try to capture that progression when I write. However, when I do this heavily (really crack back the skull and peer in!) I try to only do it for one character per story or per chapter. So for example, as I'm writing my challenge story, I'll spend one chapter telling you all the deep dark feelings and thoughts in Luke's head over something that's happened and all the things he's thinking of and guesses he's making into Mara's actions. I don't really let you peer into Mara's head, and only show her thoughts via actions/dialogue. Then maybe next chapter I'll switch.

EDIT: divapilot

Just went and read your response (I try to write mine before reading others) AND OH MY GOSH WAY TO MAKE ME CRY JUST BY YOUR OWN DARN BRILLIANCE!!!!!!

 

Second part of One Thousand and One Nights is up. Word count is now 5460 words.

I have not really thought much about Introspection, so I don't really have answers to the questions.

 

12.066 words posted with the first part of chapter 10 now up

 

Chapter 4 of Things Fall Apart is up, here. Total word count is at 10,271.

 

Right on the deadline, I've updated The End of Eternity. Word count 2,033.
I've got to get a move on!

 

Total word-count with 10 chapters posted for the Flowers of evil: 12.589 (Not included the first post with the dramatis personae)

 

Got a post up with 400 words, all together 1878 words.

 

Okie-dokie, I updated the index on page 1 with everyone's totals, please let me know if I forgot anything. I also wrote up the summary of our discussion on OCs here, I still have a couple of topics to catch up on. I'm posting a new discussion topic this week to try to keep this thread flowing, please let me know if you'd like me to leave it open for more than a week -- and of course late answers to any previous topic are welcome!

Lastly, I'll be travelling from roughly 20 July to 05 August with no or limited internet access, is there someone who could take over the thread from me during that time? EDIT two hours later: The wonderful Irish_Jedi_Jade kindly volunteered.

Wrap-up weeks 24-27: Introspection

We use introspection to develop a character’s thoughts and motivations, when they need to take a decision or when they want to ponder a moment in their lives. Many of us think of it as a sound strategy for character development, to expose the change that a character is going through within a story. The amount of text we dedicate to introspection depends on the importance of the point we want to make – we’ll sprinkle bits of introspection across the dialogue and action when we want to give the reader a hint on the character’s motivations, but we’ll allocate entire paragraphs to it, or even a section of a chapter, and possibly shift to a form of first-person narrative, when it’s a significant moment for the character.

We can use introspection as a narrative device to summarise events that have happened previously or off-screen, but we consider that focus on the character’s emotions and feelings rather than the events themselves makes for better storytelling. Since most of us seem to prefer a third-person rotating POV, it also stands to reason that we’ll limit the introspection to one character at a time and show other characters’ reactions through action, description or dialogue. The length and genre of the story can play a role in how much or how little introspection we choose to write into it.

 

Week 28: Genre, tropes and clichés

When we post our stories on the boards we tend to put a short description in the title bar which often includes the genre: drama, romance, adventure, horror, mystery, etc. However, when you click on the link and read a story, you’ll seldom find that it can be defined as belonging to a single genre – but you will find that it uses some of the tropes associated with one or more of them.

Are you, as a reader, attracted to a particular genre? Conversely, do you, as a writer, choose to write in a specific genre? What determines your personal preference? Do you have the same preference when reading/writing fanfic as for literature in general?

How do you define the genre to which a story belongs? Is it the storyline, the themes, the tropes? Does the classification into genres make sense to you? Or would you rather not use these categories and present your stories on different terms? Why or why not?

Do you have particular expectations from a fic when it is defined as belonging to a specific genre? For instance, are there any tropes that you expect to find or not to find in an adventure or a romance fic? Conversely, do you expect a fic that adheres to a specific genre to surprise you by the twist it can put on it?

What is, to you, the difference between a trope and a cliché? Both are recurring narrative devices and motifs, but when do you think that, as an author, you may be crossing the line from one to the other? In the case of fanfic in particular, are there any tropes that you think are overdone in fanfic, to the extent that they become clichés? Do you seek to avoid them, or to put your own spin on them?

Do you see any difference in adhering to a genre/using a trope when writing a long story vs. writing a short story? For instance, do you find that, in a short story, using tropes can make for a convenient shortcut? When writing a longer story such as this challenge, do you try to combine the genres? Why or why not?

Anything else you’d like to say about genres, tropes and clichés?

 

"Are you, as a reader, attracted to a particular genre? Conversely, do you, as a writer, choose to write in a specific genre? What determines your personal preference? Do you have the same preference when reading/writing fanfic as for literature in general?"

I am drawn to humor, romance, character growth. I also am drawn to the genre of drama as it relates to relationships etc. I read cliffies from other authors but do not write a chapter with the intent of inserting a cliffhanger when I start. If it turns out that the chapter ends in one, it is because it seemed to fit. In other words, I don't force an edge of seat moment.
For literature, types of fiction, I like to feel that the characters speak and resonate - otherwise there's not much point.

"How do you define the genre to which a story belongs? Is it the storyline, the themes, the tropes? Does the classification into genres make sense to you? Or would you rather not use these categories and present your stories on different terms? Why or why not?"

The genre divisions seem clear-cut and while it makes sense to write/read a story with several overlapping and/or concurrent themes/genres, there will always be one or two that stand out.

"Do you have particular expectations from a fic when it is defined as belonging to a specific genre? For instance, are there any tropes that you expect to find or not to find in an adventure or a romance fic? Conversely, do you expect a fic that adheres to a specific genre to surprise you by the twist it can put on it?"

There are no speicific tropes per se that I feel must be included, although I do love happy-ever-after endings or a resolution into serenity and contentment at the very least. I come to love the characters as OCs or already do if established, so I would hate to go through an entire story and find out that their struggles were for nothing. I do love plot twists along the way also.

"What is, to you, the difference between a trope and a cliché? Both are recurring narrative devices and motifs, but when do you think that, as an author, you may be crossing the line from one to the other? In the case of fanfic in particular, are there any tropes that you think are overdone in fanfic, to the extent that they become clichés? Do you seek to avoid them, or to put your own spin on them?"

I think talent plays a big role in turning a trope into something unique. Just like taking something that many authors may have tackled as a plot point but each one will do it up differently - for example, changing up the ending of ROTJ somehow. A cliche is more to me like a platitude or maxim. A trope is something that is done a lot but is true as often as not.

"Do you see any difference in adhering to a genre/using a trope when writing a long story vs. writing a short story? For instance, do you find that, in a short story, using tropes can make for a convenient shortcut? When writing a longer story such as this challenge, do you try to combine the genres? Why or why not?"

Tropes can feature in a short as well as a long story. If a story is well written enough, even the fact that the author is employing a trope won't detract from the appeal. You'll be drawn into wondering how the situation will resolve itself.

 

Are you, as a reader, attracted to a particular genre? Conversely, do you, as a writer, choose to write in a specific genre? What determines your personal preference? Do you have the same preference when reading/writing fanfic as for literature in general?

As a reader I am attracted to real-life stories, adventure, romance, humor, crime and in the SW universe the stories about the EU-characters

How do you define the genre to which a story belongs? Is it the storyline, the themes, the tropes? Does the classification into genres make sense to you? Or would you rather not use these categories and present your stories on different terms? Why or why not?

For me it's mostly writing adventure- or crime stories with some humor in it and romance

Do you have particular expectations from a fic when it is defined as belonging to a specific genre? For instance, are there any tropes that you expect to find or not to find in an adventure or a romance fic? Conversely, do you expect a fic that adheres to a specific genre to surprise you by the twist it can put on it?

I love happy endings for the main protagonist. Surprises are nice.

and 826 words posted today with chapter 11.

 

]Week 28: Genre, tropes and clichés

When we post our stories on the boards we tend to put a short description in the title bar which often includes the genre: drama, romance, adventure, horror, mystery, etc. However, when you click on the link and read a story, you’ll seldom find that it can be defined as belonging to a single genre – but you will find that it uses some of the tropes associated with one or more of them.

Are you, as a reader, attracted to a particular genre? Conversely, do you, as a writer, choose to write in a specific genre? I love to write angst, honestly. Angst of all varieties! What I mean though is...I guess I really like focusing on the feelings and things that make someone tick, and those things usually come out in a difficult situation. Plus, I'm @Briannakin's evil twin, so....I guess maybe I'm a jerk who loves messing with the characters I love! But I'm also a SUPER sucker for happy endings, so I usually end up putting at least a healthy dose of romance in there too! As to reading...meh. I read more for the characters than the genre.

How do you define the genre to which a story belongs? I focus on what the majority of the story is focusing on. Is it just a character doing some introspection that gives you a glimpse into their life in a dark time? Is it mushy with a side of angst? I guess I usually don't really confine my stories to just one genre...I usually list the main ones and move on.

Do you have particular expectations from a fic when it is defined as belonging to a specific genre? Not...really? I guess I expect a romantic fic to be, well...romantic at some point? But I don't expect that something has to be ALL one genre. It can have lots of bits and pieces, but have an overarching theme I guess...and I'm good!

What is, to you, the difference between a trope and a cliché?
OMG. So many tropes. But honestly....I guess I really just love them. Because to me, it's those things about the character that we all know and all expect that I love. Mara's ALWAYS going to be snarky, Han's ALWAYS going to be sarcastic. I think this leads back to that character discussion we did a long time ago. Those core aspects of the character are going to be there. Han has a sensitive side but he's never going to act like Luke. So...yeah. As to using them, heck yes I do! Shamelessly! But I try to put my own spin on them. Overdone tropes? I think the biggest one that I've recently talked about is the incredible resiliency of the characters. I mean, come on. I know you're Anakin but you can't tell me you're so superhuman you can get literally shot and just walk it off? Or you went through something horrific like having your planet blown up (Leia) and that doesn't cause you to have any lasting mental effects? I think that overemphasis on "bounce-back" frustrates me, because these people are human. So I try really hard to make sure that humanity and the junk that happens afterwards is present in my writing.

Do you see any difference in adhering to a genre/using a trope when writing a long story vs. writing a short story? I'll totally use tropes anywhere. I just think it has to be the right time and place, and fit with the story you're telling.

 

15.173 words posted with chapter 12 completed

 

Week 28: Genre, tropes and clichés

Are you, as a reader, attracted to a particular genre? I'm not sure but I can tell you what I'm NOT attracted to. I don't really get into "hard sci-fi" types of things, or military stories. But I will read if it's got something that catches me, usually an intriguing character or an interesting conflict that makes me think. I like character-centric stories. I want to care about what happens to the character.

Conversely, do you, as a writer, choose to write in a specific genre? I don't think I choose a particular genre. I'll write the story and then the genre becomes apparent as I write.

How do you define the genre to which a story belongs? Is it the storyline, the themes, the tropes? Does the classification into genres make sense to you? Or would you rather not use these categories and present your stories on different terms? Why or why not?
Good questions! I think the themes make the story's genre apparent. If the idea is love conquers all, then obviously that's a horror story. Just kidding. I do think genres make sense. There are many stories that combine genres, and I think that's a good thing - you may have a military genre story with a coming of age story embedded in it - but there's almost always a main genre that dominates the story. It's helpful for the reader to get some idea of what the story is so they can read the things that are enjoyable for them. Don't make your reader guess what you are presenting to them.

Do you have particular expectations from a fic when it is defined as belonging to a specific genre?
I do have certain expectations, but I love a twist. If I'm reading an adventure story, I expect evil cliffies. If I am reading a romance, I would like to see some tender, sweet moments between the characters. I think it's the twists that make a story interesting. An adventure story with a character who hates to leave his comfort zone is interesting to me. A romance where one half of the romance keeps doing things to impede the relationship (whether of their own conscious effort or inadvertently) is interesting. I like it when things don't go the way you'd expect.

What is, to you, the difference between a trope and a cliché? Both are recurring narrative devices and motifs, but when do you think that, as an author, you may be crossing the line from one to the other? That's a good question for me because it wasn't until recently that I even was aware of the idea of tropes. A trope, as I understand it, is a thematic template. For example, the idea of the "chosen one" is a trope. Tropes are not necessarily bad things. They set up a situation or a plot device that gives the reader a quick "oh yeah, that's what we're doing" kind of message. Star Wars is loaded with tropes. The comedic sidekick. The wide-eyed youth and the wise mentor. (But what I loved about Star Wars is actually a clever inversion of one of the major tropes, the damsel in distress. Here was this princess who the heroes set off to rescue and when they got her she kicked butt. She didn't need a rescue, all she needed was someone to unlock the stinking door.) I think tropes can be helpful for readers and for writers to telegraph important information about setting or character very quickly.

A cliche, on the other hand, is not a good thing. A cliche is something that has been done so often that it is not only uninteresting, it's annoying and leaves the reader feeling unsatisfied. Cliches reduce the character to a one-dimensional being.

In the case of fanfic in particular, are there any tropes that you think are overdone in fanfic, to the extent that they become clichés? Do you seek to avoid them, or to put your own spin on them? Yeah...Evil overlord is evil is a cliche. I'd rather see evil overlord is actually trying to protect his own people from destruction and understanding that this act will cause him to be hated by everyone else. The other cliche that I see is the all-powerful Jedi. I actually saw that more in profic, to be honest. Also, the idea that every character is perfect- handsome, strong, brilliant, etc. It's nice if your character is beautiful but she shouldn't be a freaking pageant queen. You can have a character who is good looking and smart, but they should have flaws, too. The one thing that makes me the most is the single tear that falls down the cheek. Oh brother. just no. I just try to avoid cliches.

Do you see any difference in adhering to a genre/using a trope when writing a long story vs. writing a short story? I'll mix genres in long stories. In short stories, I'd probably stay to one main trope or genre. Otherwise the story gets too busy.

Anything else you’d like to say about genres, tropes and clichés? The more you read and write, the easier it gets to spot a cliche. I think a lot of young or new writers fall for the cliches because they are easier to write. Once you get experience writing and once you've read a wide variety of works, you'll begin to see how the cliche isn't sufficient to bring in the emotional connection you want with your reader. Another comment is that as a writer, I think it helps to read outside your genre. It exposes you to new ways to look at the writing you're used to and maybe pick up an interesting approach that you wouldn't have otherwise thought of.

 

GOSH thanks for calling me out!!!!! (I'm 100% kidding, btw).

You make a super great point here divapilot. I look at my writing and...man. I found some of my old stuff in my email and It's amazing that Jade_Pilot didn't just punch me in the face I think (in addition to being a "new" writer), age definitely brings something to our writing. I started out here in TFN when I was still in my teens (please nobody punch me for being a baby!). I look at stuff I wrote back then and it was very...rosy. Idyllic. Probably because there were aspects of my life that were just that. However, as I've grown, I think my writing has too. Now I have custody of my sister, so I basically inherited parenthood, I've been married (and divorced), I've moved all over the country, I've traveled, I've gotten in trouble (ahah!)...and I think all those experiences over the years have given me a much bigger "bank" to pull from. Not saying you can't be a good writer without life experiences, but I think it definitely adds to the texture. I see it in my sister (she writes too! Yay!!) and a lot of her writing is very reminiscent of my own at that age. But she's lightyears better than I was

 

Irish_Jedi_Jade - lol - you know you write beautifully, girl.

I feel like I need to clarify - I'm not trying to sound snotty or like a know it all, but as someone who has read a LOT of teen's writing. I know that it's absolutely possible for teenagers to write something amazing and original. But lots of people who haven't spent a lot of time writing (regardless of their age) just haven't really developed a voice yet, so they aren't really aware that they're venturing into cliche territory. Like everything, writing is a skill and the more you practice the better you get.

 

divapilot oh staaaahhhhhppp it

I didn't take what you said that way at all, please don't think I thought you were being snotty!!! I was just self-identifying my own realizations of how much a few years have changed me

 

I’ll be honest, I didn’t quite get the introspection questions (and I was just being brainless at that time) so I’mma just going to skip to these.


Are you, as a reader, attracted to a particular genre? Conversely, do you, as a writer, choose to write in a specific genre? What determines your personal preference? Do you have the same preference when reading/writing fanfic as for literature in general?

Inside of fanfic, I like to read and write AU’s/what ifs, missing moments, which largely means romance and family moments (is that a genre?). But I love both reading and writing angst (Irish_Jedi_Jade calls herself my evil twin, but I’m just as evil). I guess I just really like reading and writing things that are more emotional and character driven, so I will gravitate to those types of genres.

Outside of fanfic/Star Was profic, I actually don’t read that much (just don’t have the time), but I actually hate romance/ genres that are more emotional. I’m not sure why. I guess I gravitate towards science fiction and fantasy if I want something totally separate from Star Wars.

How do you define the genre to which a story belongs? Is it the storyline, the themes, the tropes? Does the classification into genres make sense to you? Or would you rather not use these categories and present your stories on different terms? Why or why not?

I think it’s the storyline and themes that really defines the genre, but I really don’t like classifying stories into ‘genres’. I’ve written fics that run the gambit from romance to adventure to humor to angst. Sometime it is easy to define a story by a genre, othertimes I just kinda guess the “main genres” and move on.


Do you have particular expectations from a fic when it is defined as belonging to a specific genre? For instance, are there any tropes that you expect to find or not to find in an adventure or a romance fic? Conversely, do you expect a fic that adheres to a specific genre to surprise you by the twist it can put on it?
Yes, I do have expectations regarding the content. If a story is labeled as a romance, I expect the main story line to be about a romantic relationship between two people. Do the two have to live happily ever? No. I love a good angsty ending. If it is adventure, I expect a new experience for the characters.


What is, to you, the difference between a trope and a cliché? Both are recurring narrative devices and motifs, but when do you think that, as an author, you may be crossing the line from one to the other? In the case of fanfic in particular, are there any tropes that you think are overdone in fanfic, to the extent that they become clichés? Do you seek to avoid them, or to put your own spin on them?

I think divapilot said pretty much what I was going to say. A trope is a story element that has been used, but can be reused and reimagined into something totally new. For example, I am currently writing a fic with the “You cant fight fate” trope but it’s totally different situation than what Anakin Skywalker found himself in.

A cliché is something that isn’t reimagined. They are predictable. But clichés can be fun and they can be used right.


Do you see any difference in adhering to a genre/using a trope when writing a long story vs. writing a short story? For instance, do you find that, in a short story, using tropes can make for a convenient shortcut?

No. I mean, shorter stories lend themselves to fewer, more easily defined genres due to the fact that they are… well, shorter. Tropes in short stories can borderline on cliché because there isn’t the room to develop or reimagine them.

When writing a longer story such as this challenge, do you try to combine the genres? Why or why not?

Yeah, just because even I get tired of reading (or writing) PURE romance for 12,000+ words.

 

We're evil together, duh!!!!!