Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.16 - Lawless - discussion thread

Yes, he was trying to go the long way, but Obi Wan enraged him.

 

Not Embrace, but face them, defeat them and control them as weapon to become more powerful.

 

Good points, but I'm trying to figure out what options Maul had available to him to ensure his survival. Charge Sidious? No, that only ensures death. Flee? No, Sidious would Force pull him back just as easily as he threw Maul against the wall. The only option I can think of is begging for mercy - if survival is the only and absolute priority.

 

True, but I would have preferred if he showed a bit more spine doing it.

 

OK, I did a side-by-side, and you're right.

...That's really stupid that apparently Sidious has a Force-dentistry power (especially since in all of his holographic appearances as Sidious, his teeth are unaltered), but you're right.

 

In the novel it was said Sidious' eyes are yellow and his chin is pale, so he was not wearing his Force Mask at that time.

 

There is no "mask." Sidious' face is clearly still the same as Palpatine's. There was none of this
going on in The Lawless.

His eyes changed color, but as Anakin and Dooku show, the color change is not permanent. As for his teeth, they do look distinctly different (more spaced out with black gaps between them), but I figure the animators did it with a trick of the lighting effects, I'd like to think that they didn't re-animate his mouth for the entire scene.

 

There is.

 

Um, dude. Maul was clearly about to kill Satine anyway--did you not notice how she was being slowly strangled as the two talked? Obi-Wan's taunting had nothing to do with it. Maul was intent on getting his revenge regardless of what Obi-Wan had to say.

 

It's possible that Sidious's teeth in the Maul duel is just a matter of lighting.

 

Maul also choked Bo-Katan that way as well but did he kill her? It clearly made Maul angry and he went from "I'm going to slowly torture you, let you fall to the Dark Side" to "I'm going to kill her right here and let you rot in prison with the pain!".

 

There are various sources that claim different things as I said earlier.

-According to Darth Plagueis and Starwars.com (before it was overhauled): his deformities are
due to the lighting. There was no mask. **Plagueis was vague: it openly stated that Force lightning can physically transform a person, but when Palpatine asks Plagueis if he will ever turn into a pasty skinned monster, Plagueis makes reference to previous Sith Lords who showed no indication of being deformed by Force lightning.

-The ROTS commentary makes it sound as though it was a deformity due to channeling too much dark side power.

-Ian McDiarmid says he believes it's intended to be a mask

-A comic book and an RPG source book say that Palpatine uses alchemy (NOT the Force) to hide his true appearance.

I think it was the source book that also points out that it doesn't make sense for it to be a FORCE mask, because then Palpatine would still look like his hideous self in videos and to droids (that would be unaffected by the Force).

Which is why I think the concept of altering Palpatine's TEETH in Lawless is kind of stupid. Because even if you treat is like a Force mask, it means that he only dropped the "mask" covering his TEETH, but not the rest of his face. And if it's an alchemy "mask" then there's no reason for his teeth to change. And if you go by the Plagueis novel or the ROTS commentary, there's no indication of a mask whatsoever.

 

... and the fight is on youtube in HD!

 

Anyone else find it hilarious how "sexed-up" Soniee and Lagos were made in their brief appearance this episode? What was that? "Hey, we're going to go fight Mandalorian super-commandos, so better put on your most tight-fitting clothing."

Other than that, I really appreciated the cadets' appearances. These last two episodes did a nice job of not making the season 3 duology pointless.

 

According to starwars.com, the two lightsabers Sidious uses are the one from the Windu duel and the one from the Yoda duel.

 

I didn't even recognize them until JackG pointed it out.

 

Speaking of "Greater Good" and Jedi should drop emotion, shouldn't Yoda just let Obi Wan and Anakin die to capture Dooku so it would greatly weaken CIS and possibly get the identity of Sidious from him? Even Yoda could not do it.

 

Can anyone get a GIF of Bo Katan's super Catwoman batcable Just Cause 2 jetpack trick?

 

Well I think Kenobi is more dogmatic than Yoda, or can be. He's proud.

 

Re-watched the episode.. Man, Palps is a freakin DEMON in this.

I noticed parallels/ karma I didn't catch/ think of before in that Maul killed someone's sister, and then loses his own brother. And Savage and Satine's dying words:

"I am not like you. I never was."

"I always loved you. I always will."

 

Not every Jedi is the same. Obi-Wan told Anakin to ignore the clones asking for help in ROTS, which led to the deaths of those clones, allowing them to be sacrificed for the mission. Obi-Wan also tells Anakin that he will be expelled if he abandons the pursuit of Dooku to save Padme. Yet if that were Yoda, I feel like he would have helped the clones and would never have threatened Anakin with expulsion (I mean when has Yoda ever really gotten down right angry at Anakin like that?) And if that were Mace, then I feel like he would have sided with Obi-Wan's pov, while if it were Plo Koon, he'd be more like Yoda, etc.

Whether Yoda should have let Anakin and Obi-Wan die is subjective. Hind sight is 20/20 and had he captured Dooku right then and there and sacrificed Anakin for the sake of the mission, he perhaps could have saved the galaxy from the Sith right then and there. But he'd also have to be a little cold to do that.

 

So are you saying the Obi Wan is more stubborn than the 900 years old Grand Master?

 

I don't think any true Jedi would have let Anakin & Obi-Wan die in that situation. It's a Jedi's job to protect others, their morality would force their hand into saving them. That's what Dooku was counting on, after all.

 

I think he's more dogmatic as V-2 mentioned. A Jedi is not supposed to let their emotions get in the way of the mission, and Obi-Wan was pretty damn insistent about that several times throughout the prequels, though he began to crack when it came to his personal feelings for Anakin. Whereas Yoda seemed more lenient. But by the time of the OT, it seems like the roles were reversed as Obi-Wan had faith in Luke and wanted to train him despite his age, impatience, etc. Whereas Yoda was far more anxious about it.