Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.16 - Lawless - discussion thread

I'm not sure, but he definitely fears Sidious. The way he said "Master?" when he first sensed him told me all I needed to know. He sounded so scared. It really reminds you that Maul wasn't destined to be like he is, he was molded, created.

Given Luke in ROTJ, and now Maul here... I'm just saying I wouldn't want to be hit by Sidious' Force Lightning.

 

He took on multiple clones in Intrigue and Bound for Rescue, 3 or 4 clones took out Jedi in ROTS [clutching I admit]

 

Also how many Jedi did GG kill in TCW? I don't remember the last time I saw him do it. They even stole his kill.

Actually he is lucky enough, his mother gave him to Sidious to avoid being enslaved by Talzin, and Sidious did train him well.

 

I think Maul begging was mostly self-serving the interpretation of things that Witwer and Filoni have regarding Sith being obsessed with clinging to life.

It's not impossible for Maul to be a coward. Sidious was too and tried to run from Yoda. But then there's Dooku who takes his death like a champ.

What's the saying? Bravery is fear wrapped in courage? Dooku might have been crapping himself but he stayed relatively composed. Maul falls to the ground, begins to crawl away and begs for mercy. And when you expand into the EU, there are even Sith that ask for death upon being defeated, knowing that it is the consequence for failure.

I don't take it to mean that all Sith are created equal. Not everyone that is afraid begs.

I'm sure if you took real life soldiers and put them in a situation where they were captive and facing imminent death, some would face their death with as much dignity as possible, while others would cry and beg. It varies from person to person. Savage took his death with dignity, he didn't beg Maul to keep him alive because he didn't want to die or anything like that. And while it's only hypothetical, I don't think that Vader would ever have begged.

Witwer even contradicts himself when he speaks of that interpretation of Sith psychology. Because on one hand he'll talk about how the Sith are entirely selfish and that nothing exists for them past whatever power they can cling to in life, and yet he'll turn around and say that Palpatine is looking for the perfect apprentice, someone that will kill him and take his place some day.

 

I do not get why it offends you since it proves Obi-Wan's point - only the weak join the Dark Side.

I have to agree that Grievous was portrayed very well in those episode - in TCW the least.

 

Disagree:

1) Let's assume someone did look at that. He was probably crafty enough to have it all well covered. A fake flightplan, a fake reason to leave. And somehow, I doubt that particular shuttle was the personal Chancellor's shuttle. It was probably more like "Prepare my evil sith ship" and not "Prepare that ship that declares I'm the leader of the Republic"

2) I don't see how. It was obvious in the Phantom Menace whenever they played the Emperor's theme every single time Sidious appeared. Oh and the fact he spoke just like the Emperor and dressed like him didn't hurt. Kids aren't that stupid. That's like expecting them to be surprised that Clark Kent is Superman and Bruce Wayne is Batman. Let's not forget the other previous evil Palpatine shots that the CW crew has used such as the end of the first part of this arc where he's sitting evilly at his desk as the jedi leave.

3) " I think it is time we informed the Senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished" Attack of the Clones makes it clear the jedi can't sense a thing. Yoda's "the dark side clouds everything!" line pretty much makes that clear. When do the jedi start sensing the dark side? Once Palpatine is literally lighting his own bat signal saying "I'm a sith! Come and get me!" Right up until that point, everyone is in the dark. Hell, Anakin and Mace didn't put two and two together until Palpatine literally confesses to Anakin and stands there as the light bulb FINALLY goes off in Anakin's head: "You're the sith lord we've been looking for!" "Duh..."

I don't see plot holes. I see consistency with AOTC and ROTS. Palpatine doesn't let his presence become known until he wants it known. When he is literally outside the palace. And perhaps that's a factor too. Perhaps he narrowed his presence so he could only be felt when he was as close to Maul in proximity as he was. Which would explain why Obi-Wan who is over at the hanger and taking off by that point, never senses a new dark presence. Or it could be the cloud of the dark side that Maul and Savage already give off, or the feeling of a suffering dying world and sensing that, or the emotional toll of Satine's death and the realization of Bo Katan as her sister. Any one of these explains how Obi-Wan doesn't hop off the ship saying "I sense that sith lord we've been looking for!" Honestly, with Yoda's always two declaration, perhaps he thought Maul and Dooku were the two sith and Dooku was full of it when talking about Sidious.

 

Yodaminch: yeah, I was just clarifying what another poster seemed to be saying, 'k? Which explains my liking your post which seems to be contradicting "mine" which is not mine.

 

I rather like Maul, I wouldn't say the weak join the dark side, certainly some do of course, but it's awful that after his fantastic episode 1 appearance and surviving being cut in half and managing to at least put up a good fight against Sidious, he ends up like that.

 

Palpatine is the Emperor was revealed in 1977, before EP IV came out.

They did sense it in EP III quite a few times, and that's when the Force grew even darker.
Even in TCW, remember Yoda found Maul's return from lightyears away? That proved they could sense it. And Sidious is not clouding himself this time.

He already started the fight for a while before Obi Wan got into the ship, and his darkness is much stronger than Savage and Maul, why would it be clouded by Maul brothers?
It makes no sense, Dooku was in the Jedi Order before Maul's "death",and why would he ask Maul to kill Qui Gon?

 

Sidious didn't become a Sith Master by never using the Force until ROTS... He has used it and would have to have used it throughout his apprenticeship to Plagueis and during his term as Senator of Naboo and in that time nobody ever sensed Palpatine's power or that he could use the Force, or even that the Dark Side surrounded him (as they finally took note in ROTS).

I don't see why the Jedi would all of a sudden be expected to be able to sense anything.

 

Yes, but not much and Plagueis trained him on Mygeeto, probably Coruscant got too much Light Side on it.

No he was sensed by both Dooku and Maul in EP III and this case, the book also made clear "to those who could feel the Force" could feel the dreadful darkness from him even before the fight.

 

I really don't get the force cloak thing, I always thought it was because the light was dominant, dark rising so the light couldn't sense the dark cause it was some sort of, not yet punctured the light. Which explains why Palpatine doesn't sense Luke on Endor because the light hasn't yet punctured the dark.

They can sense a disturbance in the force but not specifics until the dark/light fully expose themselves or something, but then in CW Palpatine hides himself, the three dark siders duelling must have some ripple effect.

 

Doesn't that mean they should be sensing it now as this is sort of an early reveal to ROTS.

 

Sidious did sense Luke and knew who he is when he contacted Vader in EP V.

 

And if the Dark Side clouds everything what exactly are they sensing? An even darker darkness? The planet's erupting in civil war, that in itself is going to leave a tremor in the Force. Palpatine is reaching out with the Force to get thoughts out of Anakin regarding Padme's anticipated death, and it's not like Shaak Ti all of a sudden kicks the door down and claims she sensed something. Even when Mace says the Dark Side surrounds the Chancellor he still finds it hard to accept that the Chancellor is the Sith Lord or that he has been trained to use the Force.

Sometimes characters sense a very specific thing ("Your thoughts dwell on your mother"); sometimes they sense something vague ("I sense confusion in you"); and sometimes they don't seem to sense anything at all. I mean Ki-Adi-Mundi can pluck thoughts out of Anakin's head and realize that he's specifically thinking about his mother. Yet nobody realizes that Anakin is married and running around trying to find a way to cheat death. The Force is just a convenient plot device. TCW never even explains why Yoda can sense Maul's return half a galaxy a way, yet Palpatine can be standing two feet away and nobody senses anything out of the ordinary. Convenient plot device. The EU can then be used as a supplemental source to rationalize any inconsistencies, but at the end of the day it just does whatever it needs to do to tell a story.

 

TaradosGon Or my personal canon reasoning - the Force has a will of it's own. It doesn't want to reveal Palpatine yet because it's not time.

 

If we just use the movie it makes sense, Sidious didn't get sensed until he firstly use his Force and reveal himself.

If we take the good part of the EU, it's a bit weird why the Jedi weren't able to sense Plagueis and Sidious during that assassination and later the death of Plagueis, I love that last chapter but I really think Sidious should do it with lightsaber rather than lightning storm. If we must give an explanation then it will be Coruscant could hide darkness since it's full of light for thousands of years.

That's one of the reasons I'm against "let Sidious go fight", it will make the setting more difficult to mess up, especially when there is a Jedi on that planet. They let Yoda sense Maul is also a bit weird since it caused the problem, let Sidious do the job would be better.

 

Soniee and Lagos look like the weird Sisters.

 

Ninja'd.

 

I win! In your face bro!

 

Sidious = the Emperor is not the revelation. ( For those first watching in numerical order, they would have no frame of reference for the Emperor anyway. ) Sidious = Palpatine is the revelation.

Maul wasn't doing a lot of sensing in EP III...

 

I mean in Shadow Conspiracy.

 

So she's something of a Lobot, with the head wraparound and the gauntlets -- I see.

Love her shoes! /off topic

 

Makes me wonder how much Amedda knows.

 

Mas Amedda knows that Palpatine's not the good guy and he's aware of his evil plans, but I'm not sure if he knows his exact identity, well not until ROTS anyway.