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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Books Cynically Reliving the X-Wing Series

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cynical_Ben, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. Sniper_Wolf

    Sniper_Wolf Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Resurrecting characters a primary charge against genre fiction, and I agree. Isard was not a good enough villain the first time let alone with a carbon copy.
     
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  2. Riven_JTAC

    Riven_JTAC Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Not having read much sci-fi outside of Star Wars and having not read any stories with clones prior to reading Isard's Revenge, I did like the whole, "who is the clone and who is real?" part.
     
  3. Tim Battershell

    Tim Battershell Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Typical Iceheart, though, couldn't even bump off her own clone without messing up!
     
  4. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2013
    That's the ideal segue for the next topic, actually. We've already discussed Kirtan Loor, but he's dead now and I'd like to discuss the big bad of the series to this point, up through The Bacta War.

    [​IMG]

    Ysanne Isard, the Iceheart, director of Imperial Intelligence and self-made heir to Palpatine's thro- oh, wrong picture, sorry.

    [​IMG]

    There, that's more like it.

    Through the first three books of the series, Isard is the big-bad, serving as Loor's overseer, playing the long game while he deals with the Rogues directly. Her personality is perfectly encapsulated by her differently-colored eyes, one that's ice blue and the other flame red. She is cold and impersonal, willing to sign away the lives of millions, potentially billions of beings to strike a blow at the heart of the Alliance, but she is also given to fits of irrational wrath and tantrums that often lead to mistakes on her part. She sits behind the scenes and is content to mastermind events to her own ends: the destruction of the Rebellion.

    She gives Loor his life, despite his failures, with the mission of the destruction of Rogue Squadron, seeking to mold him into a more effective agent through practice and instruction. She greenlights Derricote's creation of the Krytos Virus, a vile biological agent that horribly kills a wide variety of the non-humans on Coruscant, from Sullustians to Gamorreans and Quarren. The only groups exempt are ones chosen by Isard and Derricote specifically to further the splits in the New Republic leadership: Bothans and humans. And she puts the pieces together by giving up Coruscant after only a comparatively token defensive stand, hiding away in Lusankya while Loor, the Rogues, Black Sun and the New Republic authorities frantically scramble around to fill the power vacuum and try to cure the virus.

    The only time she goes hands-on in the first three books is as the master of the Lusankya prison facility that broke so many of the Alliance's agents, and nearly breaks Corran Horn, personally overseeing his torture. Ultimately, though, that is what leads to her downfall, since she does the one thing her previous distance prevented: she makes the fight personal. Corran manages not only to resist her attempt at brainwashing, but also to do what no one else has done: he escapes Lusankya, just in time to save Tycho, on trial for his murder. He foils two of Isard's many plots in one move. And thanks to Wedge, Mirax and the Vratix, the Krytos Virus is brought under control. However, her sleeper agent, Diric Wessiri, kills Loor after he turns state's evidence and is thereafter gunned down by his own wife.

    As we transition from the fight for Coruscant to the Bacta War, Isard becomes a much more personal villain, a more more direct threat to the Rogues who have gone, well, rogue. She is the elected leader of Thyferra now, thanks to the majority clan she helped put into power. However, she had also become more unbalanced, obsessed with causing as much bloodshed as possible and getting back at Wedge, Corran and the Rogues by any means possible, meaning that Vorru and even Erisi have to try to avail reason upon her to keep from throwing ships and men away. This makes her far less effective of a villain as she comes off more like a delusional fool brought to power through the actions of others than an effective leader and planner in her own right.

    Overall, Isard simply isn't that effective of a villain. She works fine in the first two books, when she's the puppetmaster working behind the scenes at a variety of plots and with seemingly infinite contingencies up her sleeve. However, once Loor moves out of the picture and the spotlight falls squarely on Isard, we can see that she's far more two-dimensional than he is. She's driven by power and hatred, nothing more, the culmination of the Imperial Intelligence ideal, a sneaky, underhanded plotter willing to go to ridiculous lengths to meet her goals who, while intelligent, is not at all flawless in her reasoning. She manages to out-maneuver the Rogues and other agents on some level early on, but manages to get played by first General Arien Cracken through the events around Tycho's trial, then by Wedge throughout the Bacta War. It's only Fliry Vorru's influence that keeps her in power for as long as she is, despite having a vast material and manpower superiority over the Rogues.

    Really, in a series with a number of creative and intelligent villains, Isard falls flat in her role as the Big Bad. She simply does not have the personality on the page to carry the story the way Loor or Vorru do. Even Erisi, as a former Rogue who has turned coats, makes for more drama. Isard has menace and threats and that's about all. She lacks the most important factor for a Star Wars villain: charisma. Compared to other Big Bads, like Xizor, Thrawn, Palpatine himself, she's utterly second-rate. All of her schemes, ideas, plots, everything she does is utterly dependent on those who work for her. She's a bureaucrat, not a mastermind. The one time she does something for herself, it winds up leading to her ultimate downfall.

    So, thoughts on Isard? Have I covered the bases well, or is there some extra layer to her that I'm missing? Is she a better villain in the comics, or about the same?
     
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  5. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Sadly Sameish. Tavira just makes a much better villain then her.
     
  6. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    I think Isard is intelligent as far as statistics and numbers, and ruthless when needed, but what she lacks, what Vorru and Loor had a bit of, is intuition. I think, even though she was the one who convinced Loor to stop thinking himself infallible, that she considered herself infallible, too. She was arrogant and did not believe a group of uneducated starfighter pilots could possibly beat her. In fact, this is the same basic failing that every villain in Stackpole's books has: Loor, Vorru, Isard, and Erisi...they all believed they couldn't lose. That they were the best. See where it got 'em? Corran's like that too, actually, but he gets the stuffing beat out of him enough throughout the series–and I, Jedi–to make up for it. :p
     
  7. CommanderDrenn

    CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2013
    I found it bothersome how the heroes usually are one step ahead of the villains, at least in the first four. I like the heroes to be the ones one step behind, not the villains.
     
  8. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    I like the way you think, Drenn. =D= I really dislike the idea that is constantly overdone that just because a character is opposing the preferred side that must mean they are somehow dumber or related inferences. It's dull and poor story telling.
     
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  9. CommanderDrenn

    CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2013


    To use the forum vernacular...quoted for truth. Sometimes it seems the only competent Imperials are leaders. Surely, among the ranks, there would be at least a few troopers/pilots who could hit the broadside of a barn?
     
  10. Tim Battershell

    Tim Battershell Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    CD, probably comes down to the fact that the Rogues and Alliance hold the initiative while Iceheart is thinking like a spymaster instead of a military leader. She makes absolutely no attempt (AFAICR) to take the initiative away from them, even when she finds out they are on Coruscant. Then, again, it's part of her twisted plan that the Alliance do win and have to deal with a poisoned (plague-ridden) planet.

    Well, Ben Kenobi does say that "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are this precise", but during the running fight through the Death Star we see that they aren't! Character Shields, perhaps?
     
  11. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    CommanderDrenn: Indeed. Agreed. It makes them look clueless and makes the other side seem heavy-handed. What view one adopts is not down to intelligence alone and opposing or differing from the expected or preferred view doesn't mean one is without cause/standing/competence. To me all the skilled and competent Imperials got killed off both in film and the EU. Very very sad.
     
  12. CommanderDrenn

    CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Too accurate for sandpeople: Who can hit podracers moving at 600 mph.
    Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise: Who can't hit someone 10 feet in front of them....

    Hopefully Episode VII will feature competent Imperials.
     
  13. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    Agreed but I don't hold much hope of it.
     
  14. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I think Isard works pretty well as a villain. What she has going for her is that she's part of an ensemble; she doesn't have to carry the whole load herself when she's got Loor, Vorru, Derricote, and Erisi to pick up the slack. So she's able to sit back in the role of the spider in the middle of the web -- the spymaster, the manipulator, the plotter. Like Thrawn, you're always worried with her, because you don't know what she knows, you don't know if it's a trap. That's a valuable edge to give to the villain. Structurally, she's in a great position. Her role, as a name and a dark, looming cloud over everything the Rogues do rather than as a direct combatant, works very well in the books.

    Her personality, I agree, isn't her strong point. By the time she's carrying more of the story on her own, she's also increasingly victim to paranoia, aggression, and monomania. But I don't think that entirely undermines her. She's already established as a cunning, deadly manipulator, so we know she's dangerous, and adding the heat of hatred and paranoia to that only makes her more dangerous, even as we know that she's starting to make mistakes because our heroes are driving her up the wall. As a character, she's less impressive as she starts breaking down, but it is following a progression that helps make it clear why the heroes are able to beat her and that ramps up the danger for the finale where it's more one-on-one between Isard and the Rogues. It's not perfect, but it works, and while Isard may not reach the heights of Thrawn, Zsinj, Anor, or Spaar, she's still a solid villain and much better than the majority of other villains we've gotten over the years.
     
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  15. CommanderDrenn

    CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2013
    I am biased, as I root for the Empire. I was actually cringing when the Lusankya was destroyed.

    Let's talk pronunciation:
    Ysanne Isard

    Y-sayn Izerd?
    Y-sawn Is-ard?
    Yzawnne I-sard?

    I've always thought of it as Y-sayn Izerd, but I have never known for sure.
     
  16. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I'm inclined to the Empire as well and that's a main reason why I find the handling of Imperials in SW on the whole rather poor but extremely annoying in the X-Wing series.
     
  17. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    I pronounce it Y-sayn Is-ard.
     
  18. Tim Battershell

    Tim Battershell Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Ease-ann Is-ard for me.
     
  19. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Is-anne Ice-ard.
     
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  20. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    I've used this one before, too.
     
  21. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Force Ghost star 4

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    Aug 12, 2013
    Well, we know that her last name has to sound something like "Iceheart" since even she refers to herself with said nickname (which I found rather.... meh, actually). I've always heard it in my head close to the way Havac has it spelled out, more like Yih-san Iss-arde, but I could very well be wrong.
     
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  22. sharkymcshark

    sharkymcshark Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Eye-zan eye-zard
     
  23. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    ee-SANE ICE-hard.
     
  24. FTeik

    FTeik Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2000
    In-sane Isard.

    And for those complaining about bad stormtrooper-markmanship in the OT, remember that at least during ANH aboard the DeathStar and during TESB aboard Cloud City aren't shooting to kill. "They wanted us to escape." and "Have your men sabotaged the hyperdrive of the Millenium Falcon." anyone?
     
  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 50x Wacky Wed/3x Two Truths/28x H-man winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    A case could be made that Vader issued a ship-wide order "Shoot to miss" very shortly after sensing Obi-Wan on the Falcon - but equally, that order could have only been issued to the TIE fighters, and it was those that Leia thought were way too easy to escape.

    In the novelization, she actually calls out the TIE fighters specifically - "they sent only 4 after us - they could have easily sent 100"