ST Who's The Baddie?

^ THIS

Yes, the Empire lost their leader and a battle station. As I've said before, that sucks for them, but that doesn't mean the Empire suddenly threw up its collective arms and surrendered. Palpatine and Vader were gone, so the next logical step is that Grand Admiral or Imperial Moff so and so, (whoever was 3rd in command) took the throne and kept on doing the Imperial thing.

 

Actually, Grand Vizier would trump both of those.

 

Or look at WWI. Germany was allowed to surrender and stay intact. The Kaiser had abdicated, and a new government had taken charge. The Allies were tired of war and let it happen. After the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War I bet there will be people who will want the fighting to be over period.

 

Until somebody comes along, rebuilds, re-militarizes, and puts the Imperial war machine back in use.

That is, if we're using Germany as a reference.

 

Not quite... they lost substantial territory to a newly created Poland which was given access to the sea, effectively severing East Prussia from the rest of the country. They also lost Alsace and Lorraine to France; bits and bobs to Belgium and the newly created Czechoslovakia; Memel (Klaipèda) to Lithuania and northern Schleswig-Holstein to Denmark. Saarland became administered by the League of Nations, and a sizeable demilitarised zone in the west was established.

I would certainly agree that some semblance of Empire would and could exist as a part of a guarantee for Galactic peace. I also think that it's possible that a new Big Bad could threaten them both, causing them to form an uneasy alliance against a common enemy.

 

Bob trumps everyone

 

Germany and the Roman Empire have been the two biggest historical references in SW or so I've seen or heard anyway. So probably.

 

I just got an idea for a really bad fanfic.

 

Well economically I guess. With the fighting taking place in France that country got trashed. With the fighting not taking place in Germany the infrastructure was able to survive. OR so my WWII professor described it as. Mentioned something about the Ruhr valley as well. Don't remember the specifics. IT was this past semester but way too much info dumped on us.

 

No I won't like it if it's not established that there was a period of peace.

Episodes 1-6 is a great an complete story arc that I don't want to see trampled over because they want to keep adding on movies.

Quite honestly I would have just rather had another group of movies set in the KOTOR era....as much as it would pain me to miss out on the nostalgia factor of seeing Luke,Han,and leia in the movies again......but there is a boatload of risk in screwing up the story by placing this post-ROTJ in my eyes.

Not saying they can't make it work, but by starting it off with a crawl like.....

Even though our heroes won a great battle at Endor, they were then subjugated to 30 years of additional agony and suffering because of more civil war...

Would really set me in a bad mood for the rest of the trilogy

And I certainly don't want to see any more movies extending the story beyond ep9..... At that point you need a clean break from just about everything 1-9......so go really far into the past or really far into the future.......but I don't want to see Luke and the others children's children movie after movie extending a story that felt perfectly finished to me in 6 episodes

 

The EU did pretty well with the, 'Empire is still around' we'll see how if the movies can do any better.

 

Two Sith purge exist on GL canon if you consider the Sith purge of ~1000 years BBY when the Jedi wiped out all the Sith and killed Darth Bane. Only Darth Bane's apprentice survived and went on to continue his new "Rule of Two".

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The biggest two aftermaths of WWII were the spread of communism and the Middle East crisis. Both stemmed from the end of WWII but neither were directly caused by it. New governments, new opportunities for "empires" and disputes over boundaries began to unravel after WWII. Some of those came from allies during the war. Germany still existed, but there were no nazi's. It was split from communism with the head of the snake being one of our strongest allies in WWII.

What makes the most sense of all is letting the Empire itself stay dead. Give the good guys their time to relish in victory and a chance for ROTJ to be an end in its own right. However, that doesn't mean that certain forces, either subdued during the Imperial reign, allies to the Empire, or even reluctant allies to the rebels, cannot rise to take their own power grab. That's why I really like the idea of Mandalorians. I've already created an idea for them and how it can work. Here it is in case people forgot:

During the pre-clone wars era, Jango Fett, using Mandalorian armor, was used as a clone prototype that would become the clone troopers and eventually stormtroopers. Armor changed, but it was still based on the Mandalorian model. The Mandalorians could have been quiet allies to the Empire by providing armor, weapons, and other military resources. In exchange, the Mandalorians were given resources to help their people who may have been lacking them for some reason. Therefore, they were kept quiet during these times. It was a very mutualistic relationship.

However, when the Empire collapsed years later, the Mandalorians lost the biggest ally they had and the provider of goods they needed. They tried to strike a deal with the newly founded "Republic" (or whatever it's called), but they were seen as war criminals for their assistance to the Empire. Therefore, severe sanctions were put on them by the new government.

The Mandalorian people began to suffer. They relied on the Empire and now they were hurting, However, they were still skilled warriors and weapons manufacturers. They were desperate. They wished to reclaim, by force, those resources the Empire once so gladly provided in exchange for their skills. Now, ironically, they have planned to use those skills to obtain the wealth back that they feel they are "owed".

The Mandalorians, however, are somewhat split. Peaceful people of the main Mandalorian planet of Concord Dawn, want peace and to be able to create an amicable alliance with the new government. Those hell bent on revenge, entitlement, and war, have fractured into a "pirate" regime to seek out every resource from the new Republic using terroristic measures.

Finding it difficult to battle the terrorism, the Republic (for lack of a better word) have sent squadrons to locate the source of these attacks. Finally, a small group of Jedi, secretly due to the fact that the Republic no longer wishes to utilize Jedi due to former atrocities blamed on them, are sent to find out what is going on. They are eventually led to Concord Dawn.

There, a spry young Jedi meets a beautiful "princess" who is part of the peaceful Mandalorians who explains the desire for peace. They fall in love and the spry young Jedi pleas for peace with the Mandalorian people. However, this spry Jedi is deceived. The young princess is actually in with a much darker force that is behind it all. She is part of an evil who has much bigger plans and much bigger dastardly goals and has specifically targeted this young spry Jedi to help create a massive move that will not only destroy the Republic but also help to gain complete control over every aspect of the Force...

The loss of this young spry Jedi lures another group of Jedi and aspiring Force users to move against the enemy, which is exactly what the enemy wishes to do.

The Mandalorians represent the Middle East crisis and the fact that there are very peaceful people mixed with terrorists who seem to wish to destroy the world-at least the Western World.

 

The Empire will not stay dead, sadly. It is inevitable that we will see evil stromtroopers and nazis and such. But they won't necessarily be the main opposition. Any number of bad guys can be worked into a story:

Here is my take on how this can be taken to the logical extreme:

The Sith(group 1) manipulate the Mandalorians(group 2) into attacking the republic. The republic is weak and ineffective. As a response a few jedi break off from the order(group 3) to fight the mandos. Meanwhile the imperials(group 4) decide on a more efficient method. They travel to dathomir and ask the NIghtsisters(group 5) to do some dark magic that helps against the mandalorians. The NIghtsisters plan to resurrect the Force Wielders, but the GenoHaradan(group 6) think that a change of regime would benefit their organization and the galaxy as well, so they sabotage the ritual and only the Son(group 7) is resurrected. This causes a huge crysis than can only be solved by the old big three, but they first have to rescue one of them from the Hutt cartell(group 8).

And I didn't even had to try that hard.

 

That's the one Sith purge that I had in mind.

 

Just curious-if we have Sith and Mandalorians, and even Nightsisters, what would be the purpose of having any remnant of the Empire? I'm not sure what function they'd serve.

Actually you mantioned 8 groups so I am not even sure if you are serious.

 

My mistake, I guess I'm thinking of ROTJ as Sith purge #2.

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That Latino Review rumor doesn't say the Empire is still intact, or even that it exists at all (Remnant). It says "there is NO New Republic at the start of Episode VII." Sure, we can infer the Empire still exists in some sense, but let's be clear about what the rumor says -- after all, it might suggest that the Empire has largely been defeated but the members of the Alliance have been unable to form a new government (as a result of differing interests). There might be relative peace at the beginning of the ST (which is about to fall apart), and the main plot is finally how our heroes rebuild the New Republic.

If the rumor is true, however, then I imagine they've decided they want to have a TV show about this period at some point, and that means no peace after ROTJ. So like the EU Legends, Disney's post-ROTJ--pre-ST world will likely show us how the Empire hangs on, and who else rises up (e.g., Mandalorians). By the time of E7, I think we'll see a landscape of rival factions, the Alliance, Imperial Remnant, the Mandalorians, and maybe something new. It might be that they've decided E7 opens up with a galaxy in chaos from endless war. That's sad for our heroes, but very possible. I even consider it likely because 30 years of peace isn't dramatic storytelling -- they'll want to tap that 30 year period for TV and books. No doubt in my mind.

If so, it's possible that the Sith or darksiders we see in E7 aren't new to our heroes (new to us maybe). It could be that after ROTJ, Palpatine's apprentice (if he had one) rose up and took the reigns -- which would explain how the Empire ends up lasting another 30 years. Without a Sith on their side, I think the Empire would collapse soon with a powerful Jedi like Luke (and Leia) helping the Alliance.

The biggest issue with a plot like this is that it weakens the Chosen One prophecy. However, I'm sure choosing between maintaining the prophecy (which was designed for a six film arc) and having Sith in the ST and post-ROTJ TV show was an easy choice. The prophecy as a plot device no longer makes sense in this larger structure. They might either ignore addressing it in the new films and shows completely, or they might downplay its importance, or they might retcon it and say the Skywalkers are the Chosen line, or even that there's a new Chosen One (Boyega) because Anakin went bad. Or they might have a Sith-like villain (a Dith) who is a Sith in all but name. I'm not a fan of that route, but there are ways to make a new darksider work.

Do I believe this rumor? It wouldn't surprise me. It creates a strong storyline for the ST. We have a big goal right off the bat -- reestablish the Republic. It allows for multiple threats and a feeling that our heroes are still facing overwhelming odds. The ROTJ ending might end up being very similar to the celebration we see at the end of ANH -- a prelude to a larger conflict.

 

Disney and LFL are also looking at this as not just as the start of a new trilogy, but along with Rebels, and the spin offs, this is going to be a new multi platform franchise to match ehat they've done with Marvel. You have to think about a thirty yeat gap they can fill with TB, Netflix, Books, Comics, and other movies.

Agood example marvel is launching a TV series named Agent Carter which takes place, aftet The First Avenger with Peggy Carter and Howard Stark, filiming at the same time Agents of SHIELD is covering current MCU time.

 

Definition of Empire:

1. A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
2. The territory included in such a unit.
3. An extensive enterprise under a unified authority.

Sure you can have "Imperial Remnants" but no way an Empire without destroying everything that was accomplished in ROTJ from a large standpoint. And the words "imperial remnant" might be something that one of the heroes says in passing or the musings of a madman that is more of a joke than a villain.

That being said, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. Many many many threats can stem from the days of the Empire without having to foolishly refer to it as an Empire.

Good point. The Republic and Empire don't have to be the only two governments that exist in the SW galaxy.

 

I'll be very pleased if this is the way they go. The Rebellion overthrew the legitimate government and there was nothing in place to replace it other than an ideal to restore democracy. But even in our world creating an entirely new government takes time and I think 30 years is nothing to a society that had existed for 25,000 years. So to still see our heroes struggling to achieve that ideal is completely believable to me.

If I were writing the story the Battle of Endor would have destroyed the centralized government that existed under the Republic and then Empire. In the inevitable power vacuum this caused several of the Emperor's top governors scrambled for territory and power. Very similar to the situation that occured after Alexander the Great's death where his top generals split up his empire between each other. Like Alexander's generals these former Imperials would fight amongst each other to expand their territory.

The Alliance would be stuck right in the middle of all this sometimes giving battle and sometimes sitting on the sidelines as the Imperials wipe themselves out. But after thirty years of this the zeal we see in the OT is no longer as strong. Leia is barely able to keep the Alliance together as many members are simply tired of war and leave to look out for their own systems interests. That ideal to restore democracy is slowly waning as Episode VII opens. Of course something would then happen that would right the course of the Alliance and by the end of the ST a new democratic government reigns.

 

I'd think that most people could relate to or at least understand modern historical empires. Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, etc. From a WWI to WWII, you can kind of relate a 30 year period between the end of one German force and the beginning of another. Since WWII, we've never had a complete fall of a regime that existed 30 years later and has created a threat against the world. That is unless you consider the Middle East crisis but that's on one regime-it's separate nations based on a philosophy and religious issues.

They have two things to consider:
(1) If they have a new enemy, you run the risk of making the ST a whole new story and not really a sequel. In honesty, superhero movies, James Bond movies, and even Pirates movies worked in that fashion, at least after the first movies.
(2) If you rehash the previous enemy, you run the risk of erasing the celebration from ROTJ and seeming uncreative and lacking originality.

The idea is to have a happy medium. Have a new villain but one that indirectly corresponds to the previous. In other words, the events of the OT should lead to the new enemy but not have the same exact enemy. That's where I think they will be going.

 

I think a 'No New Republic' galaxy plays to the desire by Disney/LFL to have Star Wars be on ongoing franchise. If instead of a single monolithic Republic/Empire you instead have dozens or even hundreds of smaller states then you have a galaxy where there can always be some degree of conflict brewing in some corner of it.

By the same token, while the plan for now is another 3 episodes plus spin-off films, I could easily see Disney expanding the run of these new heroes well beyond that. I mean with their planned production schedule Daisy and Boyega will still only be in their mid-twenties by the time filming for Ep9 wraps up. If the new heroes prove popular I can't see Disney wanting to just take a pass on the continuing adventures of those new heroes.

 

You didn't need to know much of anything about the 20-year gap between Eps 3 and 4 to understand the state of the Galaxy and the larger conflict at play at the start of ANH. (All you needed to know was that the Empire was still in power and that now you had a Rebel Alliance (which, added to that, was headed in part by the anti-Empire Bail Organa, whose adoptive daughter is Princess Leia, all characters to whom we'd already been introduced - albeit briefly - by the previous episode. Same with Luke.)) In light of that fairly simple set up, I don't see why the 35-year gap between Jedi and Ep7 should involve anything too elaborate or distinct from what we already know as far as setting up the larger conflict. That's is, whether the Imperials are now the smaller band, a cluster of warlords, or what have you, they'll probably still be around. (Unless, of course, you're of the opinion that the Saga was concluded for all intents and purposes after Ep6.)

Unless... JJ is dead serious about opening Ep7 with a mystery box where we're not supposed to have any clue as to what has come before - ie, the 35-year gap between Jedi and Ep7. That'll probably mean a completely new villain within the larger conflict right off the bat. =\ I agree with jedijax. I'd prefer to see the new villain - the role of the real villain -emerge organically during the proceedings of the ST.