ST JJ Abrams to direct Episode VII

Yes. That is exactly what I am talking about, because of how much the movie is about the "return to the roots" and whatnot.

 

Meh ... no one has made a movie that's really reminded me of Empire or Jedi in the last 30 years. There's just such a rich, dark flavor to those films (yes even with the Ewoks in Jedi). If he can actually mimic those two movies I'll be impressed.

A New Hope, ok, but ANH was also fairly limited, low budget movie whereas Abrams has a $200 million dollar budget here ... it's just not going to be the same type of film as that either.

 

Judging by some of the recent rumours, and feelings around these parts, I think it's more likely to be one of the worst (or viewed as one of the worst) by the fanbase.

 

You don't know for a fact though - plus the language of "throwing" them out implies a disregard of Lucas' ideas - plus Lucas' comments in that interview are not detailed at all, e.g. are characters in TFA not anything to do with the characters in Lucas' treatment either? does Lucas consider altering the story to show more Luke, Han & Leia the equivalent of not using his story idea?, etc.

 

I'll take George at his word here ... he may be wacky sometimes, but he's not senile.

Besides from everything I know about Kathleen Kennedy, she is apparently a pretty classy, professional individual, she wouldn't jerk Lucas around like that, if there were changes to the script/story that he gave them, he would be told about it.

I know some people really, really don't want that comment to be true, but I think it's dead on.

 

I'm still thinking that some of the recent rumours are so bad that this is just Lucasfilm/JJ messing with us... Well, I hope that's the case...

 

Personally I'm waiting for the BB-8 is actually C-3PO and R2-D2's love child rumor as being the big shock ending to Episode VII.

Even Kylo Ren stops dead in his tracks to hear the story about it.

 

I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see it.

 

Or that he was Kylo Ren's droid....

 

Only if people have already made up their minds and are stubborn beyond all reason.

Some people are like that, but not all. They are not THE fan base.

Please, don't try to put words "in my mouth".

Nothing I posted stated, or implied, that I think Lucas is "senile" or Kennedy is anything but a professional with class. Point out where you think I did this.

The simple fact is that you do not know how much Lucas actually knows about what is going on in regards to the movie or what Kennedy is telling him.

This does not, at all, mean that Lucas is being disrespected. He may not be permitted, or what, to know certain details based on legal reason or personal taste.

He may very well have just been stating what he believed to be true about his treatments or it may simply be that he is aware of certain alterations which, to his mind, makes the story radically different from his view but doesn't mean Abrams abandoned it all.

Abrams may be doing his own story, using older Lucas ideas not in the treatment or a dozen different things.

 

Oh I agree... to some extent. The same way that anyone who dislikes certain aspects of the existing films don't speak for THE fanbase.

 

But that's just it. That's if many of the rumors are even accurate in the first place. Some people have started getting pessimistic in here because they've been giving a lot of the rumors the benefit of the doubt, and then tried to somehow fit them together into something coherent.

 

That's why I personally feel that many of these rumours are wholly inaccurate. Whether this is just inaccurate reporting or misinformation on Lucasfilms part I don’t know... Is it possible that some of the earlier rumours were more on the money and Lucasfilm has put information out there to contradict them and confuse those getting 'too close'? Who knows? But ultimately we can only speculate on the information being presented... even if taken with a huge pinch of salt.

 

...and we should have fun doing it instead of arguing.

 

I mean, if you're not going to even allow for the possibility, though. I don't know why it'd have to be a rule that because we're older, we're somehow disqualified from liking something as much as younger people.

Here's a good example: I knew as soon as I was done watching Casino Royale that I'd just seen the best Bond movie ever made. I was hoping it'd simply be a pretty good Bond movie. MAAAYBE it'd eke into the top 10.

And instead - the best. Later viewings only solidified it

Honestly, same with Star Trek 09. No way I went into that candy coated bit of business thinking it'd be up there with Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country as the best in the series. And even before the actual title came up on screen, I knew we were already in that territory. The movie just had to not screw it up from there.

So nah, I'm gonna stick with the idea that 3rd best in the series and 1 bil at the box office is the floor for this movie. That means even if he BOTCHES it, that's STILL going to be the worst this thing does. 3rd best, 1bil worldwide.

I'm saying that's the worst case scenario.

Also, so far as the Lucas thing goes - I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he said it just to say it. Middle of a junket, getting bugged about a movie he's not working on - even if they didn't toss his ideas like he said they did, I can absolutely see him saying they did just so people will move on and stop trying to connect him to the movie so solidly.

Plus it's not like he doesn't KNOW what public perception of his prequels are. I wouldn't put it past him to just toss himself under the bus for the sake of the film's reception.

 

Excellent point. I broadly agree with you in that JJ's Trek really was largely in the vein of TOS (GR's original vision) not really what people think of TNG as being which was GR's revision of what Trek should be especially after he was ejected from the movies after (and probably during) TMP. JJ's Trek really isn't quite the same as the Meyer Trek but kind of in-between to my mind.

Then of course there was the TNG after GR and the movies especially ST:FC which is a story that you can easily see with Kirk in Picard's role and Spock in Data's role.

I have no doubt the "public" perception that will be pushed by those prequel despisers (who also don't much care for ROTJ) who have spent the last 16 years pushing their version of how the prequels were received (as opposed to the reality) will want that to happen. They will do their best to make it happen.

This isn't the place to get into box office discussion but briefly in as much as it pertains to perception we know that those people will spend incredible amounts of time twisting reality into their own interpretation and present them as "facts".

By the end of 1999 TPM was worldwide the number 2 movie all-time behind Titanic IIRC and 3rd all-time domestically behind Titanic and ANH (It's since passed ANH and is 5th all-time). Now of course the prequel despisers will do a merry dance to work their way around these unalterable facts. They will say that TPM despite being a massive mega super-hit of all time was somehow this hated thing that no can really understand why they bothered going to over and over and over again and why no one used word of mouth to tell their friends to stop going.

Now of course they won't say this about ANH or The Dark Knight movies or other all-time top grossing films and to that point they certainly won't say it about TFA if it does happen to get to that level. If TFA can do the same kind of relative business of TPM then they will say that it's because it's a really good or great movie that the public loves and that's why they are going. They will not say the same thing about TPM.

So there is the quandary for them. How to explain the super successes of both TPM and TFA and say that the former is hated and the latter is loved? Because they say so? They are telling the "real" story. Believe them it's true. Just ask them.

They of course also need to explain why now 10-16 years later the movies are still selling on Amazon:

PT
#117 in Movies & TV
#5 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Science Fiction
#18 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Action & Adventure

OT
#81 in Movies & TV
#3 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Science Fiction
#12 in Movies & TV > Blu-ray > Action & Adventure

I'm not quite sure what your meaning for "I would put 2:1 odds he's going to have made, at minimum, the third best Star Wars film" pertains to. You mean your own personal belief or like the above perceptual belief?

For myself all I can say is my realistic minimum is 7th and the likelihood is 6th as to get past ROTJ is one thing (and that has a lot to do simply with the basic "problem" for ROTJ that it has to finish TESB's rescue of Han) but in terms of being anywhere near ROTS or TESB in the first movie will be something. I mean if you start there then where do you go for VIII and IX?

 

Well it depends on your point of view. I neither think Casino Royale is the best Bond film (one of Craig's best for sure) or that Star Trek 09 is "up there" with the best of Trek. So it's all about self imposed expectations I suppose. We all have differing tastes. That we (the royal we) have different interpretations of the existing films, it's no surprise then that our interpretation of spoilers, and how that manifests in observations about what TFA will be like, differs.

 

I agree, I've been saying for a while. in terms of acting, directing and writing wise, this has the potencial to be the best one yet. It's all about execution.

 

I guess I should clarify: The Royal We I'm mostly referring to when I talk about "the floor" is the General Audience. Not necessarily me, personally.

I think this will end up being recieved, by a popular consensus, as one of the better Star Wars movies. Third best at minimum. And that's even if he doesn't nail it. I can absolutely see the general audience (maybe not Star Wars fans specifically - but then again, Star Trek fans seem to be the group most divided on JJ's movies, the rest of the general audience considers those two films to be legitimately good, period) absolutely loving this thing if he kills it, and still liking it a hell of a lot if he doesn't. Moreso that 2/3rds of the rest of the series.

 

That is what I meant - they don't speak for all of us - but there seem to be people who have made up their minds already - that is there right I suppose, but it makes no sense.

 

I'm already liking a lot of the action/set piece type scenarios more than most of the Star Wars movies in recent memory.

Stealing Tie Fighter, Snow forest lightsaber battle, X-Wing battle over gorgeous watery planet, Kylo burning village down, Kylo being a collector and worshiper of the sith, Chrome Troopers....( they just look legit)

It just sounds like a very cool movie.

 

Oh I agree there... I've always thought that Abrams knows how to make a popular movie... However, it's not really the general audiences that determine the popular consensus, but rather the intelligentsia and media. Saying that, Abrams is fairly popular with those too, so he's got a better chance of TFA being perceived well than Lucas did, IMO. Either way, I'm assuming the fan base will be split (or partially split).

 

Who exactly are the "intelligentsia"? What makes them better than us "regular people"?

The audience decides, not the media - movie critics slammed TPM and it still broke records.

Critics - meh, go get jobs.

 

TPM would have broke records regardless. It was years since the OT movies that were hugely popular and the hype of the return brought the fan base back waiting.

Doesn't mean the movies were amazing. I saw all three because I'm a huge Star Wars fan, I didn't think they were great Star Wars movies though.

 

Careful what you wish for...